Talk:Major League Soccer/Archive 8

Time line
Should the new Miami team be on the same row as the old Miami? Chivas and LAFC are rightly on different rows. Is there a reason for Miami not being treated like LA? Red Jay (talk) 16:11, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I suppose it depends on what the lines represent. If it's presence in a market, then we should merge LAFC up to Chivas to save space. If it's ownership groups or franchisees, then we should push the new Miami team to a new row as well. I am of the opinion it's the latter. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:23, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Each line is for a franchise/club. LAFC was explicitly stated as not being the same as Chivas USA upon the announcement of their folding. And there's no connection between the Miami Rams other than market, so they should be on separate lines as well. oknazevad (talk) 23:26, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Games played
Looking at https://www.mlssoccer.com/stats/alltime it lists multiple columns including "GP" or games played. The drop-down, however, only allows you to select Goals, Assists, Shots, Fouls, Goalkeeping, Shutout and Saves. You cannot select by games played. I would like either of the editors who removed the citation needed template from this statistic to provide the steps to show that Nick Rimando played 472 games and then Beckman with 451 in the article the way the table shows. If you select Goals in the drop down, which is the default, and then sort by games played Beckerman shows first. Select assists, shots or fouls and sort by games played, you have Beckerman again. You have to switch to goalkeeping before you see Rimando but of course, Beckerman doesn't show. We either need the citation needed template or a note explaining we are using WP:CALC to achieve the table. I'd sooner see a single source. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:42, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Data not appearing in infobox-can somebody fix?
We want to bring the Major League Soccer article into conformity with the articles for the other major North American sports leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB, & NHL). To do so, the infobox should contain the name of the sport the league represents (Soccer), the league's headquarter's (New York City), and the name of the league's commissioner (Dan Garber). All of this info is already inputted into the code but is it is not displaying in the infobox. Can somebody please fix? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.165.136.129 (talk) 19:56, 2 August 2018‎ (UTC)
 * These parameters don't work in this infobox because it uses the infobox football league, in line with other soccer leagues, instead of infobox sports league like the MLB, NHL, NFL, and NBA articles. What to do about that (Switch infobox templates? Get those parameters added to the football league infobox? Decide that we don't need them in this article?) is a needed discussion. oknazevad (talk) 20:42, 2 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The third option is fine with me. I don’t see the location of league headquarters adding any real value to the infobox, just clutter. CUA 27 (talk) 01:59, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's terribly important to include the sport or the HQ city in the infobox, but I do think it'd be valuable to have the commissioner Don Garber in the infobox -- he's a fairly noteworthy public face for MLS, and his position is definitely the sort of critical fact that belongs in an infobox. Perhaps a  attribute could be added to infobox football league? Alternatively, that template could just be modified to support embedding other infobox templates, and the attribute could be added that way. The implementation details aren't important to me; I just think Don Garber's name should definitely appear in the infobox somehow. -- Iago Qnsi  (User talk:IagoQnsi) 06:29, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree. I see no harm in indicating the HQ is in New York (like the other major leagues in the US), but mentioning Don Garber is rather important. Maybe infobox football league can have added a parented for "executive" with a second parameter for defining the title, like the chairman and manager parameters at infobox football club. Most football league executives aren't that prominent, especially compared to the respective association president, but it's still worth including, I think. oknazevad (talk) 13:05, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It'd prefer to stay with the current infobox. Agree league headquarters isn't important. Garber, maybe less so. Maybe discuss at the infobox to gain consensus on adding it there. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:01, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
 * on a separate note, I'd like to see promotion and relegation of none be restored. It's a key distinctive of this league compared to others. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:05, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Owner vs. Operator
In every single club infobox, the operator is incorrectly listed as the "owner", even though each club is not privately owned (like in the Premier League, for example), but instead owned by the league itself. Each ownership group owns a share (franchise) of the league and operates their share (franchise) as an operator. given the infobox allows us to change the owner title, I suggest changing the owner title on each clubs page to "operator" to better reflect the league structure. Clubintermiamifan (talk) 16:59, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The official term used by the league itaelfnis "investor/operator", as each is invests in the league and in exchange is granted operation if one of the clubs. Maybe we should use that. Or maybe that's just a legal technicality and in practice there's no practical difference with being a franchise owner in the other North American major leagues, which is why we've left "owner" in place. (PS, welcome aboard and congrats on the new club.) oknazevad (talk) 17:08, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That change would alleviate the problem of fandals changing the "owner" parameter to the player who scored a brace in the team's most recent defeat. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:43, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Lol. True. Alas, that is an issue across leagues from around the world in all sorts of sports. oknazevad (talk) 23:02, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Austin expansion team?
Instead of multiple reverts over this, let’s discuss here. To figure out what to include in the article, my preference would be to rely on statements by MLS officials, and not rely on hopeful statements by club owners, supporters groups, bloggers, etc.

The official MLS statement indicates that a new team in Austin will happen, so I’m comfortable including it in the Future Teams section. The start date seems undecided though, so perhaps we should put TBD as the start date until MLS confirms the start date. CUA 27 (talk) 17:43, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not. The sources state that Precourt has been offered an expansion franchise when Columbus is sold. However, his business dealings have been less than honourable to this point, so until we see an official announcement of the sale and the awarding of the new franchise, we should not speculate. I suspect that announcement will come within a week. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:04, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I wasn’t aware of the contingency, thanks for pointing that out. In that case, I agree that waiting makes sense. We can add the new Austin team if and when the contingency is removed and MLS makes a formal announcement. CUA 27 (talk) 12:46, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Men's league?
Is MLS officially a men's league or is it a league that just doesn't have female players? The two are different things.--Khajidha (talk) 03:06, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * No statement has been made to discuss the inclusion or exclusion of female players, like all first-division leagues I know of. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:48, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * If no statement has been made to exclude them, then it isn't a "men's league". --Khajidha (talk) 17:00, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * That's nonsense. If there's been no statement to allow women, it is a men's league. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:42, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Not by US sports standards.--Khajidha (talk) 18:44, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * What? There are no such standards. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:53, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Look at Title IX. Look at the US national soccer teams. It is standard in the US that a sport is open to both sexes unless it is specified not to be. --Khajidha (talk) 21:21, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Title IX applies to intercollegiate athletics at schools that accept federal student aid only. It has nothing to do with professional leagues. oknazevad (talk) 21:38, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * National Women's Soccer League. Is the top women's league. Freefalling660 (talk) 21:39, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm using Title IX as an example of perception in the US, not of direct applicability. And the NWSL specifies that it is a women's league, has MSL specified that it is a men's league? It may be standard in other countries that a soccer league is a men's league unless stated otherwise, but that is not what I would expect in US usage. --Khajidha (talk) 21:43, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * So you're inferring from that example that it must apply to all other leagues in the United States. That's bad deduction. NWSL specifies that it is a women's league to keep men out. MLS doesn't need to because it's understood. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:11, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that you cannot provide a reference that says that MLS is restricted to men? --Khajidha (talk) 10:52, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that you cannot provide a reference that there is actually a standard that it must be declared? Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:55, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * You're saying it's a men's league. I'm asking for a source to that effect. --Khajidha (talk) 15:11, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Ignoring the back and forth arguing above, I could have sworn we came to a consensus not to include the word men's in the lead since there is nothing anywhere that indicates the league prevents women from playing. -DJSasso (talk) 15:12, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it's when Stephanie Labbé trialled with Calgary Foothills and was signed by them, but was told by the league that it was a men's league. Different league but similar issue. I'll check when the term was added and then try to cross-reference to discussions here. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:46, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * It is probably this discussion I am thinking of. Longer ago than I thought it was and not as clear a decision as I thought it was. -DJSasso (talk) 16:11, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * If that's not an MLS team, I fail to see how it is relevant. ALL I am asking is "is there any statement from MLS as to its being men's only or being open to all players or is MLS completely silent on this?"--Khajidha (talk) 16:15, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Seems to me that this falls under WP:BLUE. It's recognized by FIFA and the USSF as the division 1 men's league for the US, a fact already cited. We don't need to add a citation for the obvious fact that it's the men's league beyond that. oknazevad (talk) 16:17, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * They are completely silent as far as I know. It is relevant because usually we treat equivalent situations the same. Since we don't use men's on the Premier league we would likely not want to do it here. -DJSasso (talk) 16:17, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Should teams that move up to MLS have a new article created?
Hi all, there is a discussion happening at Talk:FC Cincinnati that potentially has broader impact on other MLS teams' articles. The discussion is about whether the USL team and the MLS team should be covered in one comprehensive article or two separate articles. More community input and perspectives would be appreciated to help the discussion move along. Thanks, Iago Qnsi  (User talk:IagoQnsi) 01:43, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

MLS Cup Final in early November
This edit is of major concern. The MLS Cup final is not in Early November. The playoffs have run in November and culminate in early December. I can't reach the SI website to confirm. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:00, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I have added a new citation which describes the new (2019) format of 14 playoff teams and Oct/Nov schedule. BLAIXX 20:43, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:04, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Nashville SC in the Western Conference?
From the team list and its linked image it seems that Nashville Soccer Club is in the Western Conference of the MLS. This seems rather counter-intuitive considering the location of Nashville. Looking on the official website of the MLS, Nashville is listed on the Eastern Conference (on top/black directory of team websites). I've tried looking for more concise sources but I have only found definite proof on their website. Can someone clarify whether which conference Nashville is to play in? 2A02:C7D:2DAE:6A00:A9CD:3625:83EC:16C1 (talk) 16:25, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
 * According to the 2020 standings here Nashville is indeed in the western conference for 2020 at least. It's probably just the necessity of balancing the number of teams in each conference. oknazevad (talk) 19:38, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Noted! Thanks for elaborating 2A02:C7D:2DAE:6A00:DCA7:EF80:9878:E478 (talk) 18:19, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Chicago would make more geographic sense, but that would upset their existing rivalries. Better to put the newbies somewhere odd for now. The next few years will see more teams added and the conferences will probably have to be redrawn soon. --Khajidha (talk) 15:58, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Players pages: Amount of played games and scored goals. Must playoffs games be considered?
(I'm new here, so sorry in advance if this is not the correct talk page to discuss this issue)

In a particular player page, when we show the amount of games and goals for a particular club, must playoffs games count or not?

For instance, I've just checked the wikipedia page for 5 random players (for each player you can compare his wikipedia page with his MLS official website page):
 * Carlos Vela: playoffs games are NOT considered
 * Alejandro Pozuelo: playoffs games are NOT considered
 * Brenden Aaronson: playoffs games are considered
 * Sergio Santos: playoffs games are considered
 * Khiry Shelton: playoffs games are considered for his period with NYCFC... but NOT considered for his first period with SKC!

As you see, it's a bit confusing. So, which criteria should we use? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fbcabaces (talk • contribs) 10:06, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure the consensus here is to EXCLUDE playoffs from the matches played in the infobox. Can anyone else confirm? BLAIXX 13:13, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Consneus is not to include them. MLS includes them in a separate section. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:01, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Level on "Canadian pyramid" in infobox
The infobox for this article lists the level on pyramid as "1" for both Canada and US but I can't find a source that says that MLS (the league) is sanctioned by the Canadian Soccer Association. I know that the 3 Canadian teams are sanctioned to play in MLS but that's not the same as what I said before. Similarly, the Welsh team Cardiff City plays in the Premier League, but the Premier League is not listed as the top tier of Welsh football. This also applies to the other US leagues with Canadian teams (USL Championship, USL League One, USL League Two). I think that the Canadian level designation should be dropped and that "Other club(s) from Canada" is sufficient. B<b style="color: #FD8F42">L</b><b style="color: #0096FF">A</b><b style="color: black">IXX</b> 14:55, 16 December 2018 (UTC)


 * It should be modified so that it just states level 1 and no link included the way that Ligue 1 is done. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:59, 16 December 2018 (UTC)


 * I agree the situation is complicated. Consider the new Canadian Premier League.  One could argue that Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal do NOT play in the Canadian first division. Lee.Sailer (talk) 00:13, 6 December 2020 (UTC)


 * That is not implied in the article though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:24, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Rogue bracket in lead
What the heck is the source of the lone end bracket at the top of the lead section, and how do we remove it? Songwaters (talk) 16:14, 15 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Someone made an edit to the infobox template and it broke the template. I have temporarily fixed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walter Görlitz (talk • contribs) 16:21, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Location Problems
There are many problems with the location of the teams. D.C United is listed as Washington United, and Vancouver Whitecaps is listed as Cleveland Whitecaps 2603:7081:2C03:DA9:C596:1C21:5094:EB7A (talk) 14:41, 3 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I have reverted the vandalism. <b style="color: #329604">B</b><b style="color: #FD8F42">L</b><b style="color: #0096FF">A</b>IXX 14:57, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

BMO Field
BMO Field is absolutely a "soccer-specific stadium" so therefore it's inaccurate to list it otherwise in the footnotes. However, it is a "shared" stadium. Perhaps you create a category simply for "shared stadium(s)" and notate it that way (along with the other stadiums that host non-soccer professional sports teams; i.e.; American Football). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8000:2400:204C:445A:28AA:A32B:FA1A (talk) 04:21, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

MLS anthem
I added the below content at Branding Section.

The First official MLS Anthem was unveiled in 2007 and was composed by by Audiobrain&mdash;similar to other competitions from around the world. here are two versions of the MLS Anthem, an that is performed before every regular season game and an orchestral chorus version that is played before the MLS All-Star Game and MLS Cup.

But reverted and reason is belows.

""Inappropriate inline external link, a poor citation, and improper capitalization.""

The deletion is too great for such a small mistake of wrighting.

Let's polish it.Footwiks (talk)


 * It simply does not need to be that long, nor should it have in-line external links. Preferably a non-league source would be best, since if it isn't covered by a reliable third-party outlet, it's hardly worth mentioning here.  Sounder Bruce  23:30, 8 October 2022 (UTC)


 * OK. I added below simple sentence with only main point.
 * The first MLS anthem was unveiled in 2007 and was composed by Audiobrain.
 * Thanks for your advice.
 * Footwiks (talk) 03:43, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Map needs to be corrected
Colors on the map are wrong for St. Louis and Nashville. Nashville has been shifted to the Eastern Conference for 2023 to allow St. Louis into the Western Conference. Missouri should be red and Tennessee blue. 9toedfreak (talk) 01:31, 28 February 2023 (UTC)


 * It's appearing correctly for me. Looking back at the file history for the map, seems like the previous version contained the error but it was fixed last November. oknazevad (talk) 21:12, 28 February 2023 (UTC)