Talk:Major airlines of the United States

Current?
The article has a list of current major carriers. But, is there any guarantee that someone will edit the article when the list needs to be updated due to changes in the industry? Instead of "current", the article should use the "As of" followed by a date style. 206.53.197.24 (talk) 02:49, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Major Airline Definition
US DOT BTS (Bureau of Transportation Statistics) considers only revenue in its airline groupings, although it doesn't use the term "major".

http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/accounting_and_reporting_directives/number_263.html Dusty.crockett (talk) 19:27, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

The gray chart needs to be removed
This information is a list of the major certificated airline carriers with x amount of dollars of business.........not the independent affiliates and, express, connection, airlink, brands....

Suggestion chart be removed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.200.136.208 (talk) 12:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

World Wide View
Hi. I have tagged with article with due to the article only talking about US carriers and not airlines from other parts of the world. Thanks --JetBlast (talk) 22:18, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Quick Note
These are NOT mainline airlines. They use mainline sized aircraft though. I am sure previous edits were simply misguided by poorly informed though well intentioned.

I could be wrong though, perhaps Southwest Airlines or Virgin Airlines have subcontracted out flying to airlines that fly aircraft with less than 74-100 seats. I could have missed the latest news.


 * Frontier Airlines
 * JetBlue
 * Southwest Airlines
 * Spirit Airlines
 * Virgin America — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.32.152 (talk) 00:38, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * These are indeed mainline airlines in that they fly mainline-sized aircraft on their own behalf. Calling an airline mainline is not limited to network carriers that subcontract feeder flights to the regionals. Your understanding of the terms is completely wrong. As is your understanding of the Wikipedia manual of style, based on your other edits. Section headers are not to contain links and are not used in place of bulleted lists. Please review these items before continuing. oknazevad (talk) 01:23, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

NO --- your understanding of mainline is incorrect it appears ... But personally I am not invested in your shortsightedness but am concerned when you misguide others along with your stalking — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.242.119 (talk) 05:23, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Revisit of Headings
I would like to seek consensus to change the headings. As of now, they are:

Mainline passenger Regional airlines Freight carriers

As of now, the first heading is called Mainline passenger. But regionals also carry passengers, so I'm not sure why this is left off in the regional heading. I suspect the odd repetitive rhythm that would have resulted from calling it Main line air line  is why they're not both just called "airlines". As it stands now they are clumsily mixed — "Mainline" is paired with "passenger" while "Regional" is paired with "airlines". I also suspect the reason why the third heading is called Freight carrier is the popular misconception that only airlines carry people. I suggest it be changed to the following:

Mainline passenger airlines   OR    Mainline passenger Regional passenger airlines   OR    Regional passenger Freight airlines              OR    Freight

Rationale: Switching to these newer headings would use the standard phrase airlines after one of the three distinctions (e.g., Mainline passenger / Regional passenger / Freight). OR for brevity, these could be narrowed down to just Mainline passenger / Regional passenger / Freight and drop the airline part altogether. The only problem with this might be the terminology of "regional" versus mainline. Are these terms outdated? It's illustrative to note that in the one DOT source the Major airlines of the United States article is based on, those particular distinctions have been abandoned. Also I noticed the discussion a few years ago regarding the name of the headings, and the use of WikiLinks with them. I'm wondering shouldn't these be changed as well (and by 'changed' I mean turned off). Anyone please chime in. Spintendo 18:10, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Either is fine by me. Brevity is good, so I cannot disagree with simply removing the word "airline" while adding "passenger" to the regionals for clarity. I'll take care of that. As for the wikilinks, WP:MOSHEAD is pretty clear about them not being linked, so I'll take care of that as well. oknazevad (talk) 20:27, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

"Big 4" inclusion in the article
The source provided for calling four of the listed majors as the "Big 4" was Reuters Breakingviews, which describes itself as the following: "Reuters Breakingviews is the world's leading source of agenda-setting financial insight. As the Reuters brand for financial commentary, we dissect the big business and economic stories as they break around the world every day. A global team of about 30 correspondents in New York, London, Hong Kong and other major cities provides expert analysis in real time."

The key words here are agenda setting, commentary and analysis which means the source is likely no better than an editorial from The New York Times, which would not be an acceptable source (or at least one requiring extreme discretion) per WP:RSEDITORIAL.

The other source provided, CNBC, does not even use the term "Big 4" -- it uses the term "four biggest carriers".

Oknazevad raises an excellent point when they state in their edit summary that the term "Big 4" is not one used by the US DOT.

The article's only subject is listing the airlines which meet the definition as put forth under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 241.04 - the air carrier groupings, in which, the term "Big 4" does not appear. Spintendo 03:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. We should remove that distinction. The concept of the “biggest” is already well covered by the Largest airlines in the world page. RickyCourtney (talk) 04:51, 4 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Its hardly a single-source term; the sources are literally just the first two that pop up in a Google search of "big four airlines". And it is relevant; the combination of the four hold vastly larger market share than all other domestic airlines combined. Even individually, the currently smallest market share among the four (United at 12% of passenger miles) is over double the next largest (Spirit at 5.5%). The real reason for including it is that someone searching for the title of this article is likely to be interested in the commonly used narrower definition than the technical one used here. Keeping it as a short footnote satisfies both versions, and I thought it was an elegant solution to the issue. oknazevad (talk) 06:32, 4 January 2022 (UTC)


 * "the commonly used narrower definition than the technical one" If the goal is to provide an explanation for the more "common definitions" akin to something like WP:COMMONNAME, then do we need to list the other 14 "technical, uncommonly-major" airlines? That technical distinction made by the DOT isn't market share, it's groupings by revenue past a certain figure ($1 billion - there is no "Group IV"). If your goal is to explain the difference between the two, like you did here, "four hold vastly larger market share than all other domestic airlines combined" the footnote, as it stands, doesn't say all that (it says only "considered as Big 4", but considered by whom? Reuters editors?) If there are other sources besides a Reuters editorial page, then let's have them here to look at. Spintendo  11:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I found some sources that can be used for this. (No offense to your "Google search of the first two that popped up", but I thought if you're going to use this information, it should be from sources that don't get laughed out the front door.)
 * Both mention the 4 largest domestic US airlines. They are both recently published–which is required when you choose to use a definition that has been viable for less than 5 years–as opposed to the legal "technical" definition which hasn't changed in over 20 years. Spintendo  16:34, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think you're overthinking it. This article is about a technical definition promulgated by the relevant regulatory authority and should remain as such. The idea we should even consider jettisoning it is an overreaction.
 * But to also include a footnote that states essentially that the business press may use the term in a different way, as a synonym of the "Big 4" is not unreasonable and can help the reader understand why the technical definition and the press usage might not align. It serves readers, which is our purpose here. I'm not the one who added those refs, I just recognized them when I checked them. If you think there are better replacements, go ahead and replace them. oknazevad (talk) 18:10, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think you're overthinking it. This article is about a technical definition promulgated by the relevant regulatory authority and should remain as such. The idea we should even consider jettisoning it is an overreaction.
 * But to also include a footnote that states essentially that the business press may use the term in a different way, as a synonym of the "Big 4" is not unreasonable and can help the reader understand why the technical definition and the press usage might not align. It serves readers, which is our purpose here. I'm not the one who added those refs, I just recognized them when I checked them. If you think there are better replacements, go ahead and replace them. oknazevad (talk) 18:10, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Display of information proposal
I'd like to propose a different way of displaying the information on the page. Looking for feedback on this:
 * Group III airlines
 * Mainline passenger
 * Alaska Airlines
 * Allegiant Air
 * American Airlines
 * Delta Air Lines
 * Frontier Airlines
 * Hawaiian Airlines
 * JetBlue
 * Southwest Airlines
 * Spirit Airlines
 * United Airlines
 * Regional passenger
 * Envoy Air (subsidiary of American Airlines Group)
 * Republic Airways
 * SkyWest Airlines
 * Cargo
 * Atlas Air
 * FedEx Express
 * Kalitta Air
 * Polar Air Cargo (subsidiary of Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings)
 * UPS Airlines
 * USA Jet Airlines

I think this shows the relationships a bit better than the standard list. Since we have more than a handful of dedicated local editors who are interested in this page, I thought I'd propose it here and get everyone's feedback. Is this possible or is it completely unnecessary.... please feel free to share your thoughts. Please note, I'm trying to find a better reference for the big four claim per WP:STATISTA, so that will obviously be changing as soon as I locate one. Thanks for your feedback! Spintendo 02:43, 7 August 2023 (UTC)