Talk:Malaka Dewapriya

Notability?
The notability of this subject for English Wikipedia has been questioned in previous discussions on editors' talk pages. The article was nominated for deletion earlier. The sources of "press" accounts are all from one local newspaper from Colombo, Sri Lanka. Several of the works listed come from subject's own Website promoting his films and videos. For policies and guidance, see the templates already linked and Notability. Thank you. --NYScholar (talk) 05:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I've tagged it for deletion due to the fact that it appears to exist mainly or only to promote the work of a person who is still a student and who is mainly only of local interest in Colombo, Sri Lanka. [Why is this student deserving of an article in this encyclopedia?] --NYScholar (talk) 06:47, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

About this argument
There are lot of articles related to International Artist and them works on Wikipedia. There are Lot of eminent arts In Sri Lanka and them Creations and information are Not available on English language. I believe there is should be space for sri Lankan information. I have submitted few article to Wikipedia with related links. There are lots of links. This is not a advancement or promoting site. why don't you make this argument other all artist sites.if you refer other artist sites ( Pinter ,Chaplin) you can make this comment.it is rarely find out English articles from Sri Lanka on internet. please refer and find out all link which submitted .And remove this delete tab from this article.

(Jets (talk) 07:30, 10 February 2009 (UTC))

Responses to above
There is no comparison between Nobel Laureates and a student ("apples and oranges"). Why is this Sri Lankan student notable enough for an article in English Wikipedia or any Wikipedia? The subject does not seem to meet the requirements of Notability and Encyclopedicity. Wikipedia has core editing policies and guidelines that this article is not following. Please see all the editing policies and guidelines linked in the talk header and in the "Welcome" notices on (your) user talk page in order to understand why earlier editors and I question the appropriateness of having an article on this subject in Wikipedia. Thank you. --NYScholar (talk) 07:35, 10 February 2009 (UTC) [See particular note 6 at and other explanations on that policy page. Thank you. --NYScholar (talk) 07:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)]

See another editor's argument at Malaka Dewapriya, which precedes my encountering the article. --NYScholar (talk) 07:45, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Further guidance re: what makes a "reliable" source in Wikipedia for articles about living persons may be found also at WP:BLP and at WP:V and WP:SELFPUB, in relation to notability of subjects and of the kinds of sources that indicate encyclopedic notability; see espec. Notability. --NYScholar (talk) 07:50, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Many, many students and artists working all over the world have done wonderful work, won fellowships and awards, created literature, films, videos, blogs, and have long CVs or résumés listing all their accomplishments; but that does not make all of them legitimate subjects for biographical articles in Wikipedia (in any language). They have to meet the general notability guideline and other editing policies of Wikipedia to be included as subjects of biographical articles. Why should this student and artist be included while so many others of proportional accomplishments not be included? Students and artists still in residency studio programs are not generally subjects of biographical articles in Wikipedia. There is no comparison between such students and artists still in training who have won student festival awards and fellowships but not yet been acknowledged by the larger professional world in their fields (which they are still learning) and Nobel Prize Laureates on the issue of "notability." This is a matter of simple common sense. One would need to see how such a person has done after he has finished his training and more than mostly local sources substantiate his notability with greater reliability and verifiability. --NYScholar (talk) 08:09, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

If there were a section on "Notable residents" of Colombo (which there currently is not in the article on Colombo), would this person be notable enough to be listed? Is the newspaper cited multiple times in this article (Sunday Times of Colombo, Sri Lanka) notable enough to be listed individually by title in the section of that article called Colombo? Would this person be listed in the section Colombo? I expect not. Why? Because he does not yet have an established-enough reputation, even in Colombo (overall), for him to be thus listed. --NYScholar (talk) 08:31, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Consensus has also apparently led to the removal of his name from University of Colombo. He just does not (at least yet) meet the threshold of notability to be included there and thus a biographical article about him in Wikipedia also does not meet that threshold (it seems to me and others). --NYScholar (talk) 14:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Moved section due to improper format in article
'''This is not a customary section in a Wikipedia biographical article about a filmmaker. Filmography suffices; many dubious sources listed that need further checking for accuracy and reliability as well. Some are not high enough reliablity for inclusion here and some are not directly or clearly pertinent''':

[Note added later: All of this material appears to have been copied almost entirely verbatim from the subject's self-submitted CV on the website listed in EL today. No such source was given. It is the subject's own CV.--NYScholar (talk) 03:32, 11 February 2009 (UTC)]

Screenings

 * International
 * 2008 Cinamademare film festival, Italy
 * 2008 Festival Der nationnen, Austria
 * 2007 Karafilm Festival, Pakistan
 * 2006 Osian Cinefan Film Festival: Talent Campus Forum, India
 * 2006 Berlin Asia Film Festival, Germany
 * 2006 11th International Student Film Festival, Tel Aviv, Israel
 * 2006 Mumbai International FICT Film Festival, India
 * 2005 Chemara Digital Film Awards Festival, United States]
 * 2005 Cinestud Film Festival, Netherlands
 * 2004 Short Shorts Film Festival, Japan
 * 2004 10th International Student Film Festival, Tel Aviv, Israel
 * National
 * 2006 Talent campus Colombo forum / Goethe-Institut, Colombo, Sri Lanka
 * 2005 Shorts 2005 / National Film Corporation open space, Colombo, Sri Lanka.
 * 2005 Sri Lankan latest Shorts / Vibhavi Alternative Culture Centre, Russian Culture Center, and Colombo, Sri Lanka.

Non-English sources/URLs
Several of the URLs remaining in the article go to sources that are not in English and thus are not readable or verifiable by readers of English. This violates the editing policies of English Wikipedia. These are not reliable source citations for English readers. --NYScholar (talk) 08:58, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed those problems by devising full citations and incorporating them as in-line citations where they are required. --NYScholar (talk) 11:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Unsupported item
Removed The source does not support that it relates to this subject. It is an exhibition of photography by someone by name of "Beat Presser" acc. to link (both exhibition and book). --NYScholar (talk) 09:13, 10 February 2009 (UTC) [I don't see a connection to or contribution by the subject of this Wik. article; a more specific source would have to document this--an exact URL and full citation needed. --NYScholar (talk) 11:36, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 2007 My Oasis of Silence - Photography / Goethe-Institut, Colombo, Sri Lanka

Reverted passage
The idea that the person was the first Sri Lankan student whose film was selected for an international student film festival--in 2004--is not enough to establish general notability in Wikipedia; one is mistaken to move it to the lead if that is why one is moving it there. It belongs in chronological order in the biographical section, where it comes between 1991 and 2005 chronologically and coherently. As a "claim to fame," so to speak, this would not be enough to establish notability for an article in Wikipedia. Single events are not the basis for notability if the person is not otherwise notable enough for an article. Having now worked on converting the current source citations to full citation format, I still do not see meeting the general notability guideline in this case. --NYScholar (talk) 12:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Note that he (the person) was not selected; a film that he created is the first Sri Lankan student film selected for an international student film festival. The film may be notable in general (elsewhere) for that reason, but that does not make him (the person) or the film noteworthy (notable) enough for an article in Wikipedia as subjects in themselves, as subjects of encyclopedia articles (in Wikipedia), given its criteria. --NYScholar (talk) 12:34, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I revised the presentation in the lead and reincorporated some of the main point, but I still do not see it as establishing the kind of notability needed for a biographical article in Wikipedia. Plenty of students may have produced work that is among the "firsts" in their countries in many endeavors (both positive and negative)--but how does that make them generally notable enough to have encyclopedia articles written about them? [See WP:NOT, as cited earlier w/ other guidelines and policy links.] --NYScholar (talk) 13:32, 10 February 2009 (UTC)\

Being the subject of local news articles in one's home town or city (for positive human interest to one's local community or negative notoriety) also does not make one automatically notable enough for an article in an encylopedia. --NYScholar (talk) 13:49, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Full name
Full names are used in the first line of the lead of biographical articles in Wikipedia, when the full names are known. The full name is given in one of the sources cited. That is where it comes from. The title of the article is the shorter more common version of the name. That is Wikipedia format. See WP:MOS for the style guidelines. Layout guidelines are found in Layout. --NYScholar (talk) 12:27, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Previous deletion discussion
See Articles for deletion: Malaka Dewapriya. There are other Wikis with articles which appear to have been written and edited by the subject himself, though that is just a guess at this stage and one must assume good faith (WP:AGF). Some of the information in his self-published blog and in those articles appears the same. This is not in keeping with Wikipedia editing policies and guidelines. It is recommended that subjects not create and edit articles about themselves in Wikipedia (self-promotion v. neutrality). --NYScholar (talk) 13:08, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

There was concern expressed that sockpuppets of the subject were involved in editing this article; again I would not know, but one can examine the history of its and other similar Wiki articles' creation and editing for evidence of that. --NYScholar (talk) 13:17, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I did what I could to improve the citation formatting of this article, and added full citations. But even after all this work, I still do not feel that the subject is notable enough for a biographical article in Wikipedia. I've listed it in the AfD page. (I may have not done so on the page correctly, but I did what I could. It may need different way of listing there.  Right now, the previous discussion and previous decision to delete (archived) show up from a almost year ago.  The arguments still seem as strong to delete it. --NYScholar (talk) 15:10, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Stupid Argumart
If NYScholar make like this argument you should have remove most of article from this encyclopedia. Situation about art and working method of artist is different country to country.Your New york Thinking method is not suitable to Asia. Encyclopedia is useful to get knowledge and information from different kind of fields. I believe Wikipedia make useful space provide touch different cultural background. I am trying to provide some information From Sri Lanka. I have submitted and edited few articles since last few moth. Malaka Dewapriya is Young International visual artist from Sri Lanka. He was a student. mow he become as an international Artist.when we refer his information, he has done lots of remarkable art works.He was first student who screen a film internationally.it is only one issue. There are lot of related links and description in Sri Lankan Language about him.due to Wikipedia policy i cannot submitted all primary materials.I think there are enough description and link which has written on this site.he is suitable artist who include Wikipedia.it is thew he still newer win noble price.but he has done huge artistic contribution as a Sri Lankan.he is suitable artist who include Wikipedia.I am totally disagree with NYScholar Argument and i am awaiting for other editors comments.

(Jets (talk) 17:42, 10 February 2009 (UTC))


 * Please voice your opinion on the AFD Page. This is where the decision to delete will be discussed. Thanks! Plastikspork (talk) 22:46, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, please maintain politeness, as per the talkpage header "Be polite". It is not civil or polite to label another editor's argument "stupid". --NYScholar (talk) 02:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Continued discussion
One needs to notice in those "opinions" that the newspaper articles are almost all written during a period when the subject was still a student and that a great deal of the material in this article comes from self-promotional self-published online Website and blog of the subject, inserted in earlier versions of this article (see the earlier deletion discussion and see the sockpuppets [of the subject] used in earlier editing).

(cont.) I spent a lot of my own time trying to show what the sources actually are by converting all the URLs previously strewn throughout earlier versions of this article into actual source citations in the citation templates.
 * Most of the local newspaper articles are written by one person (Susitha R. Fernando/Sachie Fernando), and the articles are of only local interest to Sri Lankan readers.
 * How is this subject, whose "press" almost entirely focuses on work done as a student, of interest to the general readers of English Wikipedia?
 * Where are the reliable verifiable third-party published sources to document the current notability of this subject?
 * More and more various reliable third-party published sources are needed, in full citations that everyone can read and verify, to establish this person's notability.
 * It really does appear that the subject has used Wikipedia to highlight his own importance and to make it appear larger than it actually was and is from a more neutral point of view--see Neutral point of view.
 * The newspaper articles by Fernando [Susitha R. Fernando and Sachie Fernando are the same author; editorial brackets indicate (properly)] are also based on interviews with the subject and thus reflect his own point of view on himself as it is repeated by Fernando. Then the articles are listed on his Website and placed in Wikis throughout the internet to promote himself, and, through this feedback circle, appearing back in Wikipedia after the article was first deleted.  The same sources are recycled just as they were already in the previously deleted article. [Updated in brackets due to confusion about how to read editorial interpolations within brackets by User:Jetskere; his/her confusion and apparent lack of knowledge of the proper use of brackets for editorial interpolations is evident from some comments s/he made in recent AfD.  (see link to it at top and below.) --NYScholar (talk) 20:12, 16 February 2009 (UTC)][These articles are listed as "Malaka's paper articles" on his personal Website and were listed in a previous version of this Wikipedia article (current and deleted versions) as his "Press". --NYScholar (talk) 20:56, 16 February 2009 (UTC)]
 * Having a fellowship to an art studio is not notable enough an achievement to justify a biographical article in Wikipedia as an artist.
 * In what other English-language Sri Lankan newspapers other than mostly the Sunday Times in local news is this subject discussed as Notable. [Are there enough to justify "notability"?]
 * What art work(s) has this subject produced since he was an undergraduate student that has been reviewed professionally in reliable third-party published books and articles?
 * The number of works listed is not numerous and the dates of the works are relatively few as well.
 * What has the subject produced that has been reviewed by notable film and/or art periodicals outside of Sri Lanka? Where are those kinds of sources in this article? --NYScholar (talk) 02:13, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

(cont.)I would appreciate it if some experienced administrators would take a look at this article in relation to the notability both of the subject and the sources cited as evidence of his notability and keep in mind the dates when the sources were written (during his work as a student). --NYScholar (talk) 02:34, 11 February 2009 (UTC) [02:18, 11 February 2009 (UTC)]

(cont.)The sources (as quoted in note citations) verify that after receiving his B.A. from the University of Colombo, in Colombo, Sri Lanka, the subject has gone on to pursue "higher education" as a student with a "scholarship" to the Akademie Schloss Solitude in Germany (called a "fellow" while there) and a "fellowship" to the GoYang Art Studio in South Korea (called a "resident fellow" and a "visiting artist" there). These programs provide space for visiting artists both to work on their art projects and to pursue further study in educational art workshops and thus constitute a kind of further (postgraduate) training in art. (It is not clear whether or not the subject is pursuing a higher degree; some of the Sri Lankan Sunday Times articles and other local sources are written in English that is not always entirely-accurate English; there are errors throughout them, which call into question their reliability as sources. I've added the "Fellowship Conditions" of the Akademie Schloss Solitude, which states clearly that one cannot be a college or university student in applying for a fellowship there; one has to have completed one's "basic studies", it states.)  […] I changed the infobox template to Infobox Person because it enables the parameter for education and alma mater. It is important that readers of this article read the sources to understand the educational and professional training contexts of these programs. Fellowships and scholarships are means of financial aid support for attending such programs. Please examine the links at the sites of the programs given in the sources for more information to avoid further confusions of the kind expressed in comments made in the AfD. Thank you. --NYScholar (talk) 20:20, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Templates
Could not add the "underconstruction" template to replace the "in use" template because the former is inconsistent with the current AfD template. Please see User talk:MichaelQSchmidt, a helpful reminder (note #3 and #7 particularly). MQS can put back on the "in use" template as needed while working on article. No editing conflicts (ec) occurred when I made a few minor changes (Wikified links, etc.) recently. --NYScholar (talk) 02:46, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I've added some new sources and ELs that I think strengthen the article and make the more recent notability of the subject more evident. I've also updated my comments in the AfD project page (see template on article for link). Thanks. --NYScholar (talk) 04:15, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Update
After improving this article considerably, I've requested closure of the AfD. Please see link at top of article. I think the AfD can be closed and the template removed. --NYScholar (talk) 18:06, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Previous sections of this talk page could be archived after closure. --NYScholar (talk) 18:08, 11 February 2009 (UTC) Concerns still remain. Please review the discussion on the AfD page. Thanks. --NYScholar (talk) 21:05, 11 February 2009 (UTC) [Updated link after closure of discussion. See also top of this page. Thank you. --NYScholar (talk) 20:54, 15 February 2009 (UTC)]

Please use edit summaries
Please use edit summaries in making edits, especially those that are not "minor". See Edit and Help:Edit summary. Thank you. --NYScholar (talk) 21:59, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 22:53, 29 April 2016 (UTC)