Talk:Malayalis/Archive 2

A solution
How about we simply remove that sentence and not even describe the etymology of the word? -- vi5in [talk] 19:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * OK. thats fine with me. let others speak about this.


 * Malayalee or Malayali (Malayalam: മലയാളി) is the name given to Malayalam speaking inhabitants of the state of Kerala. Malayalee literally means a person hailing from a Hill Country. It is synonymous with the word Keralite. Malayalees can be either Hindus, Muslims or Christian. A small number of Malayalees are also either Jewish or Atheists.


 * what about this introduction?. And i think the last line(given below) is unneccessary.


 * Malayalam is the language spoken by a majority of Malayalees.

cheers Daya Anjali (talk / contribs) 06:40, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * That sounds good. Do we have a reference for the "Hill Country" part? I know that "Malai" means hill, but not we're coming back to the argument as to what "Malayalam" means etymologically. How about we remove that sentence completely? So we can remove the part that says "hailing from a Hill Country" and just add "Malayalee is synonymous with the word Keralite". The last sentence may not be needed in the introduction, but perhaps we can add it later in the article, but simply as part of a statistic, maybe as part of a paragraph that describes the languages spoken in Kerala. So we would have Malayalam, English, Tamil, Kannada, Tulu, Beary Bashe etc. -- vi5in [talk] 06:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * OK. we can go ahead like that. Actually, I have have proposed to removed the last line and added Malayalam speaking inhabitants instead of inhabitants in the 1st line. cheersDaya Anjali (talk / contribs) 06:53, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

The entire definition is odd to say the least. A Malayalee is a person who speaks Malayalam irrespective of his/her residence. We have Malayalees all over the world now. The term Keralite is used for all residents of Kerala irrespective of the languages they speak. This definition of restricting the name Malayalee to the residents of Kerala is against the present usage of the term all over the world.--Sankarrukku 11:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * How does the lead read now? I've tried to incorporate the ambiguity in the definition itself. Please see if the present lead tallys with the common usage of the term.--thunderboltz(TALK) 14:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Some details
Malayalam was the local word for the land. This word was later used to denote tha language also. Mala is a Dravida word for mountain, used by Tamils and Malayalis. These closely related languages have a common vocabulary. Aalham means a place. Malayaalham is a place full of mountains. It is possible that the old Kerala consisted only of the eastern hilly areas and the coastal land was added by some tsuunaami. The original Dravida language trifurcated into Uthara, Madhya and Dakshina dravidam. From the Dakshina dravidam, the branch 'thekkan dakshina dravidam' or proto-tamil-malayalam seperated out. This branch bifurcated into Tamil and Malayalam. To say Malayalam came out of Tamil is not correct. Malayalam had no literature before 9th century, but Tamil has very old literature and this gives the impression that Malayalam is a recent language and daughter of Tamil. There is very little differenc e between old and present Tamil because the literature and grammer stabilised the language. 124.125.228.205 09:58, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

RfC for Malayalee article
Fix RFCxxx template - section param in template should be section header of discussion page that template appears in. DMcMPO11AAUK/Talk/Contribs 05:05, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Dravidian civilizations
Wiki Raja 08:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

editprotected Delete the line "Now they are one of the major progressive communities in Kerala." from the Nair section as it is inaccurate and not a descriptive term. Perhaps just leave the Nair description to the same one on the actual Nair article: "Nair (IPA: [naːjar], Malayalam: നായര്‍, and sometimes spelt Nayar) is the name of an upper Hindu Caste from the southern Indian state of Kerala. The Nairs were a martial nobility, similar to the Samurai of Japan.[1][2][3][4] and figure prominently in the history of Kerala." B Nambiar 12:07, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * ✅ Done ~ Riana ⁂ 14:29, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Races in Kerala
editprotected Please delete the whole section. The Negritos seem to be the earliest inhabitants of Kerala, as of South India in general.[7]The physical characteristics are curly hair, black skin, round head and broad nose.The descendants of this race are in tribes called the Uralis, Paniyas, Kadars and Muthuvas.[8]The Uralis are the primitive artisans of Wayanad whose pot-making technique is very primitive as no potter's wheel is used.[9]Marriage by elopement is very common among the Paniyas.[10]The Kadars know little or no agriculture.[11]The Muthuvas rear cattle, but instead of milking it, they sell it.The Proto-Australoids, who came long after Negritos, are distinguished by their long head and flat nose.Their descendants are the Kurichiyas and Mulla Kurumbas of Wayanad.[12]Kurichiyas are matrilineal, having large matrilineal households in a cluster of huts known as Mittam.Mulla Kurumbas are patrilineal in nature.The Dravidians, who came still later, are represented by communities like Nairs, Ezhavas, etc.Namputhiries represent the spearhead of Aryan penetration to the deep south.There has been considerable mingling of Aryan and Dravidian strains in the case of the Nair community because of socially sanctioned practice of Namputhiri males marrying Nair women.[13]Though there has been an infusion of Assyrian, Arabic and Jewish blood in case of the Christian, Muslim and Jew communities, the basic stock is indegenous.[14]

It sounds like the factualness of "race" has been taken for granted. Probably, Malayali sense of humour is in full display in the following statement ( I am sure that is non-Negrito and non-Australoid kind); "The Kadars know little or no agriculture.[11]The Muthuvas rear cattle, but instead of milking it, they sell it." By the way, do I hear Aryan chariots thundering down to south?

Probably, this answers most of the variations. I would like to know how different are genetic lineages of Namboodiri women from other castes. Probably, that would explain where the "Aryan and Negrito/Australoid/Dravidian mix" took place. By the way, have you come across Negrito/Australoid/Dravidian specific lineages?

manju 07:00, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why exactly you want it to be deleted? could you be more clear as to on what grounds. To me the referenced statements seem accurate overall.B Nambiar 12:15, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The concept of race has been taken for granted. I have tried to give present view based on modern genetic studies that contradict the old "references". The wordings in the article are highly offensive and POV.

manju 15:12, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I see the fact that it is offensive to the tribals and it seems largely historical. Some wording of statements is offensive and anyway individual community pages have more accurate origin theories than this general one. It does have hints of POV. I agree with modification or deletion. B Nambiar 02:22, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I removed the template as the page is no longer protected. Tra (Talk) 20:30, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Mappila actual recognized dialect???
There seems to be some dispute over another article regarding the Mappila Malayalam 'dialect'. I see that there are people who sing in this style who are Muslim but I can find no valid sources to verify it is an actual recognized 'dialect' of Malayalee. ---69.154.8.50 (talk) 02:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Communities
I have reordered the list of communities. Mappila is the largest community (24.70%) followed by Ezhava (22.91%), then Christians (19%), Nairs (12%) then Brahmins (1.59%) Pannikkar (talk) 00:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Image
I have added an image showing some famous Malayalis. I have shown an Ezhava leader, a Nair ruler, Muslim and Christian actor and a famous artist.Pannikkar (talk) 00:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks great.Nambo (talk) 01:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Religion
I guess that sizeable number of Malayalees are Atheists and/or agnostists because of Communism. If Judasim which represent less than 0.0001% of the population of Malayalees is in the list, definitely Atheism stands a chance..Any comments? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zencv (talk • contribs) 18:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely. KBN (talk) 08:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

The biggest challenge here would be to get a reliable source for number of atheists. We can avoid cultural Hindus/Muslims/Xtians who may go to temple or mosque, but still doesnt believe in god, but still there are Hindus or Muslims who are openly atheists. Once a source is found, I think this should also be included under religion. Zencv (talk) 21:22, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Many Infidels would object to being included under the heading of religion. Also, it is not just those who hope to "go to meet Marx" who are Atheists. Woof! NRPanikker (talk) 00:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

The Kerala Yukthivadi Sangham(whose members are mainly atheists) is an organization that support atheist & rationalist ideals in Kerala. Isn't that proof that there are Malayali atheists? Sanal Edamaruku the founder-president of Rationalist International and the president of the Indian Rationalist Association is actually a Malayali which is also proof there are Malayali atheists. I am a 13-year old Malayali atheist that was born to a Syrian Malabar Nasrani family. I became an atheist after realizing that St. Thomas never came to Kerala and that the story of Jesus was probably a lie like the story of St. Thomas coming to India. It's all bullshit that the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church lied about to sell false hope. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.28.165 (talk) 04:33, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Malayali
Just a note that "Malayalee" is the incorrect spelling. The double "e" implies that it is a long vowel, whereas the actual pronounciation is a short vowel sound (മലയാളി). The correct spelling is "Malayali". The pages should be renamed as "Malayali people", in accordance with Wikipedia policy (Gujurati people, Punjabi people, Tamil people, Assamese people).Malladath (talk) 01:41, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I support that. KBN (talk) 13:04, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I too support the renaming proposal, Malayalee → Malayali people. --Salih (talk) 14:07, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * While "Malayali" is the current standard, older books (especially pre-war) may have spellings such as "Hindoo" and "Malayalee."


 * Regarding the other matter, many groups nowadays object to the use of a bare adjective, so "the deaf" became "deaf people" and this has been taken a stage further by the "People First" movement: "disabled people" have become "people with a disability" and in the same way perhaps "Malayalis" should become "People who speak Malayalam," but Anglophones whose families emigrated from Travancore would need some other formulation such as "Persons of Malayali propensity." NRPanikker (talk) 00:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Malayali people
The article should be renames "Malayali people" in accordance with Wikipedia policy. Refer to Punjabi people, French people, etc. "Malayali" itself could be referring to literature, music, cinema, and so on, however this article is foremost about the ethnic group Malayali.Hijjins (talk) 11:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Best wishes
Hi, brothers, communities like Palakkad/Kerala Iyers(Tamil speaking Brahmins), Konkanis(Gowd Saraswat Brahmins), Cochin Gujaratis, Tulu brahmins etc are now included in the "Non-Malayali Keralites" article. And, communities like Ambalavasi, Malayala Kshatriyas are included in the "Malayali" article also. In an encyclopedic point of view, " Malayali" is a person whose MOTHER TONGUE is Malayalam wherever he/she is born and brought up. Otherwise well known Malayalis like, MGR, Shashi Tharoor, Manoj N. Shyamalan cannot be considered as Malayalis. Sadly, like any other parts of India, caste factors also influence in shaping the criteria to identify who is a "Malayali outside Kerala" and who is a "Non-Malayali" in Kerala, though all are KERALITES. Yes, "Keralite"( Keraleeyan- in Malayalam) and "Malayali" are two different words with entirely different meanings, both in English as well as Malayalam. For more details, please read the book- "KERALATHILE BHASHA NYOONAPAKSHANGAL"(Malayalam) or Language minorities of Kerala- written by Mr. Paul Manalil. Published by Mathrubhumi Books. ISBN 81-8264-226-4. Price: Indian Rs. 170/-, Available at - Mathrubhumi MM Press, Cherootty Road, Kozhikode-1. Tel 0495 2765381. Sales Centres are there in all major cities and towns in Kerala including Kozhikode, Palakkad, Kalpetta, Kochi, Thiruvananthapuram, Thrissur, Kottayam, Kannur and Kollam. The book is published by Mathrubhumi group - The Publishers of 'MATHRUBHUMI MALAYALAM DAILY. Hence, very much authentic. Another authentic book(In Malayalam) about the Non-Malayalees of Kerala is- KERALATHILE BHASHAKAL(LANGUAGES OF KERALA) written by Dr. M. Sreenadhan. ISBN 81-87590-11-4 Published by INTERNATIONAL CENTRE FOR KERALA STUDIES, UNIVERSITY OF KERALA, KARIAVATTOM, THIRUVANANTHAPURAM- 695 581, KERALA, INDIA. Price- Rs-60. And the book is distributed by DEPARTMENT OF PUBLICATIONS, UNIVERSITY OF KERALA, PALAYAM LIBRARY CAMPUS, THIRUVANANTHAPURAM- 695 034, KERALA, INDIA. However, for all of us, it is great to realise that Kerala is religiously as well as linguistically diverse than any other state in India! Another thing, it will be great to start a new article about "Marunaadan Malayalis"(Non-native Malayalees) and another about the 8% strong Malayali populations, who mainly belong to the Nair community in Kanyakumari district of today's Tamil Nadu. freedom figher Veluthampy Dalawa belonged to this group of south Travancore Malayalees. I also suggest that it is good to start an article about Coorge Malayalis, who form more than 20% population of Kodagu or Coorge district in Karnataka. I think they mainly belong to different Malayali Christian denominations. Let us research and contribute good articles to wikipedia. I pray for all of you. Jai Hind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sathyasaagar (talk • contribs) 15:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal

 * please don't use the word mallu.the word as we all know has some bad meanings also.people outside use it for reffering porn films.mallu films etc.atleast we malayalis sould say the right word.say proudly i am an indian,i am a malayali —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.196.166.197 (talk) 09:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The "Mallu" article has no references whatsoever, and so ought not to be merged into the "Malayali" article. If references are found to back up what is claimed there (which I regard as essential, as I have never heard this word used myself), we then have to check whether Wikipedia articles about other other ethnic groups make a point of including the terms of abuse applied to them. NRPanikker (talk) 12:01, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The slang Mallu has little or no context and also appears to be simply a dictionary entry. It has been already Transwikied to Wiktionary. Per WP:NOT, does not need to be a separate entry for every concept or slang in the universe. I agree that the slang is fairly used to address Malayali’s, usually seems in outside Kerala by other ethnics, neither by foreigners nor a widely known slang. However, I strongly feel that a dictionary entry is more than enough in this case. Therefore, I tagged Mallu to PROD. Redirection is ok -- Avinesh  T  10:38, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I merged Mallu to Malayali per above consensus. (see here also) -- Avinesh  T  05:16, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Caste-based classification
Hullo! I don't like this caste-based classification of Malayali communities here. I feel it would be better if it were removed. Thanks- Ravichandar My coffee shop 03:09, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You will find that caste forms community identity in Kerala (like other parts of India as well), especially so for the Hindus, who rarely marry outside of their community (although this is beginning to change). The castes and religions do not intermarry (although this is slowly beginning to change) and they have their own respective traditions and customs.121.220.111.141 (talk) 07:20, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Requested move
No move Parsecboy (talk) 16:01, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Malayali → Malayali people — Move to Malayali people since that is the format used by all other ethnic group articles on WP. —  Arjun G. Menon  ( talk  · mail) 02:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Survey and Discussion

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Agree. I propose a move to Malayali people since that's the style used by almost all other "people" articles on WP.  Arjun G. Menon  ( talk  · mail) 20:34, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Agree - Should keep the article in line with Wikipedia policy.121.220.111.141 (talk) 07:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment See WikiProject Ethnic groups. If the plain title is not ambiguous, it's fine to have a title without "poeple". --Kusunose 16:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose. See Jew. 199.125.109.126 (talk) 01:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose Not policy; it happens that some other ethnonyms are ambiguous (as French could mean either French people or French language. This one isn't. Naming policy is to use simple names where possible. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:30, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose There really isn't any ambiguity so it isn't necessary, but nice demonstration of WP:BOLD! -- vi5in [talk] 04:50, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose : Since the name is very much accurate, and not creating confusions as in Chinese or British. -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) 09:50, 5 December 2008

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The title should be Malayalikal, not Malayali
since Malayali is singular.--91.130.91.93 (talk) 20:01, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 21:19, 3 May 2016 (UTC)