Talk:Malcolm Muggeridge

Older
If someone decides to revert the wiki back so that passage titled Trivia shows up again, please add more to give it context and/or make it relevant to the rest of the wiki. --David3565 08:34, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The following is taken from a separate article titled Muggeridge, which I've changed to a redirect. If anyone wishes to merge this with the current article, it's all yours. Lee M 19:36, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Muggeridge, Malcolm (1903-1990). British writer and television personality. Known for his acerbic wit and skeptical mind, Muggeridge first made a name for his critical reports of Stalin's collectivization program in the early 1930s. His observations of both the ruthlessness of the regime and the gullibility of Stalin's foreign admirers became the theme of his first novel Winter in Moscow (1933).

After World War II, Muggeridge endured a stormy tenure as the editor of Punch but seemed to find his calling as later in the 1950s as a television interviewer. In the 1960s, Muggeridge turned from his agnostic leanings and embraced Christianity, reflected in such works as Jesus Rediscovered (1969). In 1982, he and his wife Kitty formally joined the Roman Catholic church.

- In Stuart Christie's "Granny Made Me An Anarchist", he refers to Muggeridge's sympathy for anarchism (in the early sixties) and the opprobrium Muggeridge recieved after he criticised the Royal Family. Is this worth adding (if correct)?

- Anyone know what this means? "Muggeridge's politics changed as he moved from a socialist, possibly fellow-traveller position, to a right-wing stance that was no less destructive in its criticism, as it was hard to locate in party-political terms." This sentence seems to be saying that both fellow-traveller and right-wing politics are "destructive." That's an assertion that needs clarification/argument that wouldn't belong in an article on Muggeridge. Plus, I have no clue what the rest of the sentence is supposed to mean. Destructive... because it was "hard to locate in party-political terms?" What?


 * I agree that the word 'destructive' is inappropriate. Perhaps the author means something like 'ascerbic' (and ascerbic due to the nature of Muggeridge, rather than the political viewpoint which he embraced).  Also, am I right in thinking he was a participant in the famous television debate with John Cleese and MIchael Palin, along with a luminary in the Anglican church, about whether Monty Python's Life of Brian should be banned?  If so, it might be worth adding in, perhaps under a trivia section JRJW January '06


 * Yes, Muggeridge and the Bishop of Southwark, Mervyn Stockwood (in full fig - purple cassock; large crucifix) "debated" Monty Python's Life of Brian with Cleese and Palin in Friday Night, Saturday Morning, a late-night BBC2 discussion programme hosted by Tim Rice, on 9 November 1979, the day after the film opened in London. They called it "a squalid little film" and "tenth rate", and ended by saying that "You'll get your 30 pieces of silver."  Apparently Stockwood was lapooned by Rowan Atkinson on Not the Nine O'Clock News the week after in the sketch, General Synod's Life of Christ. See this. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:54, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Works section
I have deleted the following: Still to do: Sort the works in order of publication year, (I don't have time right now). DFH 18:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC) Where is the non-fiction title "The Great Liberal Death Wish" published in 1970 in the bibliography list? Any particular reason for this omission? Is Winston Smith at work here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.233.251.154 (talk) 14:16, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * In Search of C. S. Lewis &mdash; the author/editor was Stephen Schofield; see C. S. Lewis. DFH 18:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation &mdash; the author was Ronald Reagan. Afterwords were by C. Everett Koop and Malcolm Muggeridge. DFH 18:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Conversion to Christianity.
Anyone who is familiar with Mr Muggeridges' writings will tell you he never converted to Christianity (as we understand mainstream Christianity). He always liked to say; 'some idiot grave robber took the body of Jesus', he had no belief in the Deity of Christ. Mr Muggeridge was some kind of Christian, his supposed conversion to Catholicism officially in the 80s, again if you actually read what he wrote about Catholicism long before this he was always a catholic in fact if not in name. His lifelong hostility to the Church of England (despite being a member) is also not mentioned.Johnwrd (talk) 23:28, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * He wasn't a mainstream Christian, he denied the divinity of Christ, he was always a Catholic - this doesn't make sense.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:16, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Do you have a source for the quote, and his denial of the divinity of Christ? Or are you just spewing anti-Christian rhetoric?74.15.54.11 (talk) 17:56, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Work as a Spy
Mr Muggeridge work as a Spy. When he was in Africa he would regularly converse with Graham Green via Morse Code. He also gave some insight into how Mr Phillby could have done so much damage for so long. Asked if he met Phillby Mr Muggeridge said; 'yes I met him on many occasions, not socially of course but in the course of work. There was nothing about him that stood out at all. He had the most terrible stammer, he was just not somebody you would think of as being involved in whatever he was involved in.Johnwrd (talk) 23:38, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Monty Python Debate
The article states that he "attacked John Cleese and Michael Palin" during a debate. I believe further details need to be given or the language revised. Simply arguing heatedly does not constitute "attacking" in a forum of a debate where all parties came willingly. I have not seen all of that program, and it may be that he attacked them, but clarification would be helpful, especially since no citation is given to research it further.71.228.201.183 (talk) 23:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Stalin
The article doesn't mention the fact that Muggeridge was a strong supporter of Stalin and even had Stalin's daughter come and visit his house in the UK! It tries to make out that he was almost entirely an opponent of Communism. I have corrected this. 93.96.236.8 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:04, 4 August 2010 (UTC).

Someone who apparently didn't hear the BBC World Service documentary about this has deleted this change without comment. I have reverted it. The BBC World Service programme cited in detail Muggeridge as one of Stalin's 'Useful Idiots', i.e. Western intellectuals who were vocal supporters of the Stalin regime (no doubt through ignorance of its reality). I don't doubt that Muggeridge changed his stance later. But to ignore this is something of a whitewash. 93.96.236.8 (talk) 10:58, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I listened to the programme - at no point does it say he was a ' strong supporter of Stalin', why not listen again, - He went as a naive young man with , a socialist-labour/ fabian upbringing, with dreams of Russia as a new society, and the reality he saw shattered this thinking. The programme explicitly states that Muggeridge was not one of Stalin's useful idiots, really you are hearing what you expect or want to hear. Listen again, - Muggeridge is cited in the programme as an exception to the lowlifes who sold their souls to write Stalins lies. 'One exception  was muggeridge..' etc  Sayerslle (talk) 13:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

He hosted Stalin's daughter after she had defected to the West.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:21, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Father
Muggeridge's father, Henry, was a prominent Labour councillor in the local government of Croydon, South London, a founder-member of the Fabian Society,[2] and for a short time, Member of Parliament for Romford in Ramsay MacDonald's second labour government.

It's the words I've highlighted that I'm querying. Did he have any kind of government position, or was he a humble Labour backbencher who supported whatever Labour government happened to be in power (in this case the MacDonald government)? If the latter, he wasn't exactly "in Ramsay MacDonald's government". --  Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   20:42, 17 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Backbenchers are in government (or in opposition) as much as ministers...--Jack Upland (talk) 10:10, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

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lead
The note about Christopher Hitchens seems out of place in the lead. While true, it does not serve to summarize the article, the criticism having come well after his death. This does not appear to fit the WP Manual of Style for the lead. I have deleted this reference per WP:BEBOLD, but am opening a discussion here in case there is a major objection. Dbsseven (talk) 15:15, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The lead still has a number of problems. Firstly, it says we was a left-wing sympathiser, but became anti-communist. The two are not incompatible. His exact position (if notable) should be clarified. Secondly, it says we was outspoken on religious and moral issues. Without telling us what position he took, this statement is pretty useless. Ashmoo (talk) 15:50, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Sex Abuser
I see nothing about his long and lurid history as a sex abuser. "Malcolm Muggeridge was a serial groper who 'caused much hurt to those close to him', niece admits", "His niece, who is the international president of the Malcolm Muggeridge Society, says he was reportedly nicknamed “The Pouncer” within the BBC and was also described as “a man fully deserving of the acronym NSIT – not safe in taxis”." - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/media/11433361/Malcolm-Muggeridge-was-a-serial-groper-who-caused-much-hurt-to-those-close-to-him-niece-admits.html﻿ 174.62.71.132 (talk) 09:13, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I have just added a paragraph about that.Pensées de Pascal (talk) 11:36, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Ukrainian award needing confirmation
In spite of the 2009 BBC report which serves as a source for the article, I find no evidence that Malcolm Muggeridge was actually awarded the Ukrainian Order of Liberty. This fairly exclusive honour has had only 59 recipients to date and MM does not appear in the list. Meanwhile this source does mention a posthumous 'special award' presented by Ukrainian Ambassador, Dr Ihor Kharchenko. Could someone with access to better sources confirm which award was actually granted to Gareth Jones and Malcolm Muggeridge on 22 November 2008 at Westminster Central Hall? Pensées de Pascal (talk) 11:24, 17 February 2018 (UTC)