Talk:Malcolm X/Archive 1

Monkey racist
Am I the only person to notice the picture of the monkey? Thats racist

"El-hajj"
Regarding "Shabazz" comment: To say that Muslims do not add "el-hajj" to their names because it is "no longer a symbol of prestige as it used to be" is not true. Most pilgrims do not add the name because the intention for the holy pilgrimage is marred with a sense of gaining worldy recognition; and for Americans it is simply too cumbersome to be practical.

- Hajj and Hajji are often used to address those who have made the Hajj; it can also be used as a term of respect without knowledge of one's status as a "haji." Taking hajj, incidentally, is required of all capable Muslims during their lifetime; it IS INDEED respected by all Muslims to be a Hajj or Hajji so I am unclear as to why someone would write that it's no longer a symbol of prestige. Among Muslims, it most certainly is prestigous to have done your hajj obligation (and many do so several times), but is not generally used as a marker of one's socioeconomic status.

"Shabazz"
There seems to be some confusion here -- Malcolm adopted the name "Malik Shabazz" long before he ventured to Africa or the Middle East. It seems he started using the name "Malachi Shabazz" for his correspondence, starting as early as his prison time (I may be wrong on the timing), but then Elijah Muhammad later gave him the name "Malik."

He added the el-Hajj and the "el-" prefix to the Shabazz after his hajj (those additions are largely superficial though, nowadays most Muslims who perform the hajj don't bother putting the "hajji" or "el-hajji" or "el-hajj" prefix before there names because it's no longer a symbol of prestige as it used to be). But he did have the name Malik Shabazz long before that.

-

Perhaps his use of "el-Hajj" had some personal significance. His pilgrimage to Mecca is generally seen as the point in his life that marked his transformation into an all-embracing mainstream Muslim.

Wife's name
Autobiography, page 231, the maiden name of his wife is given as Betty X. Malcolm (and Betty) changed their family name to Shabazz after Malcolm's hajj and tour of Africa, perhaps to signify that he had "recovered" his African heritage.

Her maiden name was Sanders...Malcolm used the name Shabazz in correspondence in 1953...Betty joined NOI NY Temple 7 in 1957... See Malcolm's FBI FOIA HTH --Nazikiwe 08:54, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

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Wife?
I see no mention here whatsoever of his wife? --Golbez 03:24, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

There is no link to the wikipedia article on "Betty Shabazz" yet.

Black Legion
Link in article to Black Legion is wrong as far i can judge. -Svdmolen 20:46, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Created a disambiguation page for Black Legion and added a stub page for the Black Legion (murder cult). Read the FBI FOIA on the Black Legion and add to it if you can. --Nazikiwe 21:52, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation of X
John X, Stephen X, Gregory X, Leo X, Innocent X, Clement X, and Pius X were popes, and when reading their names aloud, the X is pronounced "the tenth." Someone might say "Leo Eks excommunicated Martin Luther" as a mnemonic device, but usually, prononuncing the X in a pope's name as "Eks" is irreverent or derisory. With Malcolm X, the case is reversed: pronouncing his name as "Malcolm the tenth" is mockery. Since this article may be read for those who are learning of Malcolm X from reference material rather than oral tradition, and who might even be living during the reign of a future Boniface X, the article should make the correct pronunciation of Malcolm X's name explicit. -- Eustace Tilley

Malcolm X's Positions
Right now, the article covers the events of Malcolm X's life, but only touches on what he advocated. I think we should have a section describing the positions he took during his life, with excerpts from his writings and speeches.


 * Good idea. Go for it. -Willmcw 21:51, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)


 * Should we consider the tab to be called Politic/Philosophy? And have broken down into summarize points that will be then further expanded?  I do believe that everything must be cited.Marcelino 18:27, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Civil rights activist
Now was he really a civil rights activist? I see very little if any similarities with X and say Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu etc. &mdash;mikko (speak) 14:48, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Malcom X is very definitely in the Civil Rights movement. His politics were very different from King's, but he was recognized as a militant voice in the same movement, particularly after he left the NOI.  His parents were supporters of Marcus Garvey, whose work strongly influenced him (as well as influencing the Nation of Islam).  His emphasis on self-defence harkens back to the anti-lynching movement of the early 20th century and to organizations like the African Blood Brotherhood.  He's considered to be an originator of the Black Power movement. DJ Silverfish 15:43, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * All very true, but I still would think twice before calling him civil rights activist and I'm glad the article itself doesn't say it. &mdash;mikko (speak) 20:05, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * He was most certainly a civil rights activist. It might seem a bit muddled at first, esp. during the NOI period, but he clearly advocated full rights for "Afro-Americans."  After his pilgrimage, he took on a different, softer stance, advocating that people of all colors and walks of life work together to promote equality and brotherhood. &mdash; JorgeMacD

This is absolute nonsense and clearly an indication of someone's views of Malcolm X. activist: adj : advocating or engaged in activism [syn: activistic] n : a militant reformer [syn: militant]

Malcolm X advocated civil rights for AfroAmericans. A civil rights activist is not by definition required to advocate civil rights for more than one group, although many do. Nor are they required to participate in peaceful activism (note that some animal rights activists and anti-globalist activists participate in less than peaceful demonstrations). Your point, therefore, is duly ignored.

Spike Lee joint
Hmmm, no mention of the Spike Lee film... Should i put the poster of the movie somewhere in the article or create a sepeate article? Project2501a 23:50, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * There is currently a sentence under "Biographies" that reads:
 * The film Malcolm X (movie) was released in 1992, directed by Spike Lee. Based on the autobiography, it starred Denzel Washington as Malcolm with Angela Bassett as Betty and Al Freeman Jr. as Elijah Muhammad.
 * And there is a significant article on the movie. Is there much more to say about it here? -Willmcw 01:29, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

It would appear i need better spectacles, appologies ^_^ Project2501a 01:45, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * No prob. I've done the same thing. Cheers, -Willmcw 04:38, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Speaking of the movie, do any of you understand what was going on with the numbers game young Malcolm played with West Indian Archie? I understand that it was a lottery of some kind, but I do not understand the specifics, by whom it was run or why Archie was going possibly to kill Malcolm because he (Archie) had forgotten the number 281.

insanity
I think we have a good compromise in the insanity reference. The anon, however, insists on removing the fact that Malcolm X claimed to have feigned insanity to dodge the draft. Does someone have a copy of "Autobiography" handy? It's in chapter 7 somewhere. At any rate, the anon has some interesting comments on my talk page. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 05:46, 11 September 2005 (UTC)


 * As long as we state it as Malcolm did in the letter -- "if they think I'm crazy, it's not too hard to convince them" -- I'm happy with it. I've got the page on my watchlist, and if the anon gets his panties in a bunch about it, I'm perfectly willing to continue reverting his silliness.&mdash;chris.lawson (talk) 06:38, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

editing
I have honest and good-intentioned hopes of editing this article. Is there a way to circumvent the edit-block? There are many typographical errors in this article that I would like to clean up. For instance, there is a link which reads "NOI's", which, obviously because of the possessive 's' included in the link title, does not connect to the NOI disambiguation page. I'd like to be able to correct the link, among others. Thanks. Refugee621 23:46, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Just hang on to it. Keep Malcolm X on your watchlist, and you'll see when it gets unprotected -- there was a wave of vandalistic (and also non-vandalistic but uncooperative) editing in the last few days which led to the protection; it will probably be unprotected in the next day or two. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 23:58, 24 September 2005 (UTC)


 * With no offense intended to Refugee621, might I humbly suggest this protection remain in place for another week or two (an admin can fix the Nation of Islam link, btw) because the vandal has been actively disrupting Wikipedia within the past 24 hours. I suspect that this disruption will continue until he gets bored, and a week more protection will probably solve that problem.--chris.lawson 00:04, 25 September 2005 (UTC)


 * That's way too long to leave an article protected, except in the case of the most determined vandalism or a revert war that simply won't stop. In a case like this, it makes more sense to unprotect it sooner than later -- it can always be protected again if the slimebags show up and those of us fighting them want some sleep. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 00:26, 25 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. Have a look at my contributions from about the last 48 hours if you'd like some sense of what this guy's been up to lately.--chris.lawson 00:36, 25 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Same guy I've been dealing with, isn't it? --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 00:41, 25 September 2005 (UTC)


 * No, I really don't believe that it's the same guy. The problem here is simply one of misunderstanding.  On one side, you have somebody who wants to use Wikipedia as a place to post the truth about Malcom X, on the other, officious dweebs who want to try to prevent this.  Maybe you all should take a big step back, and try to look at this situation from another perspective.  Anyway, what I am proposing here is that you all do some additional research before jumping to any crazy conclusions.  I really have to ask you at this point -- has anybody here even considered turning up the audio on their computer and taking a look at:

http://oobagij.tripod.com/

Well I can tell you without a doubt that nobody has.

I mean maybe, just maybe, there is an angle here that everyone is just missing.


 * Ooh, look, the anon strikes again. How's that one-year block treating you, 70?--chris.lawson 04:00, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Physical characteristics
I've temporarily removed the following from the first paragraph of "Biography":


 * According to FBI reports, Malcolm X was 6 feet, 3.5 inches (192 cm) tall.

It didn't fit with the rest of the paragraph at all. There's ample citation for it, but it needs to find a home elsewhere in the article. Anyone have suggestions for how we can work this in, or whether it even matters that we keep it? His red hair is a characteristic that's important to the article, since one of his nicknames was "Detroit Red", but I don't see how his height matters in the least.--chris.lawson 03:59, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd love to know just why there's been a spate of edits over the last few months adding height information to articles -- and it seems mostly to articles about taller people! Signed, Shorty. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 04:35, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It seems relevant to me to add information unusual physical characteristics to biographies. However, such information need only be presented in a subclause of another sentence, i.e. "A tall man (6' 3 1/2"), Malcom was known as an engaging speaker". -Willmcw 05:33, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Right, and IMO, 75 inches isn't even that tall (says the 5-9 guy). He'd be a short guard in the NBA. :) If he were unusually tall, then it'd be notable, but it's not like Malcolm X was notable for his height. (In the context of height, I'd say it's only notable when it lies outside one standard deviation from the mean, or when height is relevant to a person's profession, like a basketball player, or Verne Troyer.)--chris.lawson 21:12, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Minor edits
I just tried to make some minor edits, but someone reverted them. Apologies if I did them wrong; I'm a wiki novice.

The edits I tried to make are: 1) Correct the spelling of Ossie Davis's name (it's spelled Ozzie in the article); 2) add a link to the entry on Ossie Davis; and 3) add a link to Mike Wallace's entry later in the same sentence.

Temple?
I'm trying to disambig the temple page, but don't know enough about the Nation of Islam. I assume it would be correct to have the reference to temple point to mosque, but am not positive. D-Rock 12:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

NOI calls their places of worship and meetings temples and not mosques...this works out well because Muslims do not consider adherent to NOI to be Muslim because of their incompatible beliefs (i.e., Muslims do not believe there can be another prophet after Prophet Muhammad, Muslims believe in the unity of all Muslims--so no "black Muslim" status can exist, etc.).

I agree with the change of temples to mosque due to that fact that after Elijah Muhammad went to Mecca and came back to America. He changed the name of temples to mosque. If you need a reference. I'll look it up in Malcolm X autobiography. Rello222

Trip to Great Britain
There is no mention in the link in the Great Britain section to the said Labor Slogan. Can someone please try to get an additional source for the quote other than the PDF buried in the said universities website.

Article size
this article is quite long. I am thinking of starting a new pages for some sub-headings. seeArticle size

Why was he assassinated?
Why did the nation of islam what him killed so badly?

Punishment
Is there any information what sentences killers of Malcolm X received? It should be included in the article.

Anti-White?
Despite his change of view, he was most remembered for his anti-White speeches, which were emulated by other black nationalist organizations such as the Black Panthers.

I wouldn't really consider the Black Panther Party to be anti-White (certainly not in the way Malcom X was during his NOI years), they had much more in common with X's post-NOI views. Saul Taylor 10:13, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Between Prison and Hajj
There are sections for X's prison term and the Hajj, but nothing appears to occur between them. If this isn't the most important time in his life, it's one of the two most important. Note to self: create section named "Spokesman for the Nation of Islam" or something along those lines.

Boston link
The Boston link could do with updating to point to the appropriate Boston article, but I'm not sure which it is. --John 23:06, 11 May 2005 (UTC)