Talk:Malea (singer-songwriter)

Theatre roles
I have not been able to find any evidence that McGuinness performed in any production other than The King and I. The article originally said that she performed other roles (though this has been removed). Can someone find any reviews of her performances or other theatre programs listing her? Thanks for any help. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:21, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I am working directly with the artist and her record label to correct errors, update the page, citations, references and information on the page. If there are any questions regarding the page, you may leave comments here on on my personal talk page for discussion. Regarding The King and I: If you correctly read the IBDB page which you cited, it shows that she began as an understudy but eventually moved into the role full-time. I will endeavor to find appropriate citation for this. Until such time, I will be removing this information from the header to her Wikipedia page as it is only relevant to her acting career and not her current career as a performing & touring songwriter.   Thank you for your help. Loudersoft (talk) 22:43, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply. Sorry, but you misunderstand the IBDB page.  It does not say that.  The only role that she is credited as having, other than chorus, is the small ensemble role of the "singer" in the "Small House of Uncle Thomas" scene.  She may have gone on as Tuptim as an understudy (although the page does not give us that information), but she is not credited as being cast in the role on her own.   As for the LEAD section, it should give an overview or summary of the whole article, so please leave something about this first 10 years of her career there. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:49, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * No worries. I will work directly with Malea and her team to obtain all the necessary citations and references to bring this article into focus.  They are aware of this discussion and are monitoring the Wikipedia page closely, as am I, to ensure the information it contains is current and accurate. Loudersoft (talk) 22:55, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Good. Please read these important guidelines, which will help you to understand our process: WP:COI, WP:LEAD. If you can find published sources that contain the information that you wish to add, that will be very, very helpful. All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:58, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I will continue to make corrections to the lede and to the immediate sections which follow so that there can be no further confusion regarding her current professional endeavors. I greatly appreciate your help and the opportunity for the subject of this article to accurately convey information regarding her life and career accomplishments.  Be well! Loudersoft (talk) 23:04, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Please don't let's start an edit war over this. Perhaps reading WP:LEAD may help. Jack1956 (talk) 11:03, 27 September 2014 (UTC)


 * An edit war is the opposite of what my employer wants; however, for the sake of total accuracy and relevance to her professional career as it exists today, it is unnecessary for the lede to reference her appearance in The King and I in the manner that Ssilvers is contending. As I work for the subject of this Wikipedia article myself and am in contact with her to discuss what is happening, please allow me the opportunity to work towards an accurate, fully-articulated version of the article.  The edits as I have placed them are the most accurate and, within the next few days, I will be working with her to make sure they are all cited.  Thank you for your patience, assistance and adherence to the process. Loudersoft (talk) 02:48, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

If you continue to proceed in this manner, you are going to be blocked from editing. This is not a good way to begin on Wikipedia. Please read WP:COI, and you will understand why you are not permitted to revert without first reaching a WP:Consensus on this page. Not only are you trying to delete the information from the Lead about The King and I, which is the only information that we have about McGuinness's career for the decade from 1996 to 2007, but you removed most of the other information from the lead about her albums and other matters. As I have tried to explain, the Lead section must contain a brief overview of the whole article. Also, you have tried to create a new section in the article that does not make any sense, because it contains redundant information that is irrelevant to the heading and also contains a reference that does not support the information being given. So, again I am asking you to slow down and discuss with us each change that you wish to make, one at a time, and build a consensus before making any changes. Thanks. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:33, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you again for the information you have provided. I am editing the page to correct grammatical errors that existed in previous edits and correct numerous factual inaccuracies which have been added to the page regarding the subject of the article. My edits demonstrate I have endeavored to add citations to sections that have been requested, sections which I reworded from previous revisions in order to match WP:Style. I am happy to work with other editors, but by the same token, other editors will have to work with me, and that includes you. So far, you haven't spoken with me about any of the changes you've made: you've told me how things are done here and then threatened me.  You have demonstrated no patience with me and, further, have continued to edit this article in the way that you see fit while not working with me to reach a WP:Consensus.  I understand how Wikipedia works.  Please be aware that I have referred to the WP:Lead and the WP:COI as well as the WP:Accuracy Dispute and WP:Dispute Resolution pages. Now that you know that I understand what you're saying, can we now discuss the information which you feel is inaccurate and I'll endeavor to reach a consensus with you?  I apologize if we got off on the wrong foot, my intention is only to be conduit for accurate information and nothing more. Thank you for being willing to work with me.  Loudersoft (talk) 06:32, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I think that part of your confusion may be that you may not realize that where information is referenced in the body of the article, most editors do not believe that the reference needs to be repeated in the Lead section. So the summary in the Lead relies on the references given for the same information where it is given in greater detail below in the body of the article.   -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:30, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Moving forward
Also, if we're all in agreement that the misunderstanding has been resolved I would like to propose editing this talk page to remove focus on our discussion of this clear misunderstanding on my part. If you want to continue it, we can move the discussion to my talk page. I recognize that discussion about the subject's accomplishments and working towards citations that will improve the article are much better than edit warring and misunderstandings born out of a need to review the Wikipedia standards. Loudersoft (talk) 15:21, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * We are not permitted to edit the talk page, except for minor formatting, etc. Someone will eventually move the old discussions to an archive page. It seems, however, that we are ready to move forward.  I filled out the refs in the article. Please note that refs should always contain the following information, where available: the name of the author and publisher, the first date of publication (and page numbers, if available), and the exact title of the piece, so that if the link goes dead, we can search for it. See WP:CITE for more information. As to items moving forward, here are some issues that I see in the article:  First, footnote 5 does not support the proposition that the song "debuted" on MTV.  We could say "played on", if you do not have a reference that supports the statement exactly.  Second, Footnote 7 does not work properly.  Can you replace it with a ref that supports the statement?  Third, this sentence was not supported by the ref given: "She is the first Asian-American woman to lead her own band in the 40-year-history of Summerfest."  Please add a WP:Reliable source or delete. I moved the Audrey Magazine cite to the bottom section, "External links", where such profile pieces usually go. I didn't see any info in it that adds materially to the bio.  I also moved the dog rescue video to the EL section. Fourth, several of the refs used in the entry are weak, being either self-published by Malea, or from websites that would not be considered WP:Reliable sources.  However, it seems that Malea has received reviews from mainstream published sources.  If you can find them, they might contain some of the same information and strengthen the article.  Lastly, of course, sources are needed for the information that is still unreferenced. All the best. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:19, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Understand about the talk page, that's fine. Regarding your points, I added an appropriate link for Footnote 7 and am working on the others. I'll continue working through them and update this talk page as necessary. Be well -- Loudersoft (talk) 22:47, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Malea McGuinness / Malea
In her recording career, a citation is requested for the following: In 2012, McGuinness dropped her surname, opting to begin writing and performing electronic dance music simply as Malea.[citation needed] -- I'm trying to determine which part of this needs citation specifically. Malea's professional releases since 2011 make no mention of her last name McGuinness. Is it possible that a new article should be created highlighting this section of her professional life? People only refer to her professionally as Malea at this point and this is supported by numerous sources on the web. Thoughts? Loudersoft (talk) 00:20, 29 September 2014 (UTC)


 * The facts that need referencing are (1) the date when she first made the name change; and (2) the fact that she began to perform (exclusively?) EDM. Also, the statement is ambiguous, because it could be read to say that she writes and performs as "Malea" when she performs EDM, but as "Malea McGuinness" when she writes and performs other music. [Edit: I fixed the ambiguity -- ss] All you need to do is find an interview or review that says that she dropped the last name in 2012 and has since performed under the single name "Malea", and that she now performs (exclusively?) EDM.  Even a press release could be cited if she made such an announcement.  If you can't find any of these, we can just say that she released the 4th album under the single name "Malea", and if there is a concert program or advertisement for any of her concerts showing the single name, you could add the year when she began to use the single name in connection with her live performances. As to your other query, a key value of an encyclopedia biography is that it summarizes the person's entire life and career in one page, rather than making readers click on more than one page. Paul McCartney or Jo Stafford are good examples of a musician biography, so you can see what is possible here.   -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:38, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Shortening the article
This article suffered from unreliable sources and excessive irrelevant detail. I've returned it to stub status with reliable notable sources for each statement so we can move on from there. Manc1234 (talk) 22:51, 5 August 2016 (UTC)