Talk:Malegapuru Makgoba

Serious neutrality issues!
I'm not familiar with the facts, but it has several spots where non-neutral language is used (and without citations to back it up, either). This needs to be fixed a.s.a.p. since it's a biography of a living person.

The statement in the introduction has no citation and is accusatory: "He is also responsible for the unjust and unfair dismissal of several high profile academics from UDW and was accused of sexual harassment from his direct staff." Should this be removed from the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by LandyZA (talk • contribs) 18:03, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Inconsistencies
There are a number of activist sites cited that effectively undermine many of the "controversy" points making the content highly refutable. There are a number of missing citations and as mentioned above "non-neutral language" on a living person, motivation enough I think for a removal pending further investigation or a more conclusive replacement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.160.143.90 (talk) 08:57, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I've knocked out much of the unreferenced stuff. I've also removed some incorrect or unverifiable claims to awards and society memberships. The source I found for those may be dubious (the NRF lifetime achievement award press release), as it makes the claim that he is a NAS foreign associate member, but a search through the NAS database shows that there are only three from South Africa, of which he is not one. Anyway, I think it's in an adequately referenced form for WP:BIO. -Kieran (talk) 23:31, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Occasional target of a PR department
Just a warning: occasionally (every few years) somebody from the UKZN PR department makes a Wikipedia account and removes controversial content from this page and the UKZN page (see User:Ukzn and User:CorporateRelations. The latest iteration, User:Editorukzn, seems to be a little more compliant with policies, but has blanked large sections of content in this page, and is worth watching. -Kieran (talk) 23:39, 2 February 2012 (UTC)


 * we are currently editing the content which had citation erros why did you block me, oplease unblock — Preceding unsigned comment added by Editorukzn (talk • contribs) 11:39, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Your editing of the article, as representatives of UKZN, goes against both WP:BFAQ and WP:COI. It saddens me to have had to completely revert your edits, since there was some useful content in there, but since they also involved wholesale deletion of other content, I really did not have much choice. I'm hoping someone (maybe me) can go through those contributions, pull out the verified stuff, verify the stuff that isn't but is most likely true, and put it in. Dr Makgoba is a distinguished scientist with an impressive list of achievements. He is also very outspoken about his views, particularly as a senior university politician, and has created substantial controversy during his tenure both at Wits and UKZN. The article needs to capture both fairly and neutrally, and in a way that complies with WP:BIO. -Kieran (talk) 17:42, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you noted, tried to clean up under academic career section as sentence had too many tenses, added another line to that section with the refereces, will add more refereces to it when i get some time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.126.168.150 (talk) 12:59, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Try to be careful of biased or imprecise language. "Large amounts" of funding is extremely subjective ad imprecise. Also, the claim that UKZN "grew to become" "under Makgoba's leadership" a top-5 university in the country and top-500 in the world is extremely dubious, as AFAIK UN held that position before Prof. Makgoba's tenure. I have amended the article to reflect only the facts presented in the source, that UKZN holds that status today, and Makgoba leads it. -Kieran (talk) 17:23, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit summaries
Joyceprof (talk) 14:40, 7 February 2012 (UTC)under controversies added new item which is hiv/aids and added references appended acadmic career section with first black chairperson of the mrc board(1995-1998)
 * Oh, it's easier if you put those kinds of details in your edit summaries. -Kieran (talk) 19:16, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Joyceprof (talk) 10:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)i tried edit summery and inserting its code but didnt work its more confusing no place to keep the msg in page, added one line: Judge Magid chaired the enquiry into the sexual harassment allegations with reference
 * You just have to type a brief summary (usually a short sentence or phrase) into the box when you're done. Take a look at the page history for some examples.
 * Oh, and another thing, it's easier for everyone to read if you indent comments in a comment thread like this one. You can do this by putting : at the beginning of the line. Each semicolon means one indent space. -Kieran (talk) 18:48, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Joyceprof (talk) 08:50, 9 February 2012 (UTC) :will do so Kieran, have done edit today and referenced all edits, thank you very much 41.126.157.38 (talk) 07:20, 14 February 2012 (UTC) Kieran, Thank you for reorganising the sections, it makes it read better now. i will look forward for your new page on transformation politics.

Joyceprof (talk) 07:39, 17 February 2012 (UTC) minor suggestions could we  use a recent a picture of the VC such as the one used by ICSU or NRF. I went thru your input and found them constructive,. and have added a reference that brings balance to your inputs. I would suggest we should keep it minimal so that the page wont be overcrowded.
 * I agree about overcrowding the page, and have done my best to keep the language as concise as possible. Sadly, the issue seems to have been incredibly complex, with legal battles fought over the tiniest nuances in interpretation, making it difficult to summarise. I should add that the source given, being a private correspondence (albeit one released to the public) from the university's lawyer to Makgoba, makes it only really useful as a source of opinion. I agree that it's important to include it for balance, but I think it is important to emphasise that it is expressing opinion, not fact (and I have clarified the wording in the article to reflect that). -Kieran (talk) 23:00, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Joyceprof (talk) 10:54, 22 February 2012 (UTC) Kieran, i appreciate your latest comments but I have provided detailed facts in order to avoid misrepresentation. I suggest that we stick to verifiable and authentic sources that are found in all documents in the public domain. Professor Alan Rycroft statement on behalf of chetty and Van den Berg represents an opinion not a fact.


 * As for the picture, that was the only picture I could find that satisfies Wikipedia's copyright policy -- the United States has a law that makes the work of any federal government employee automatically enter the public domain, making that photo more easily usable. If you or someone you know has a better picture they would be willing to donate to Wikipedia, that would be great. Just be sure to read through and understand the requirements and implications of doing so.
 * To answer your question, "could we use a recent a picture of the VC such as the one used by ICSU or NRF?", no we cannot. The NRF photo is copyrighted by the NRF, while the ICSU is released under a free license (the CC BY-NC-ND) that is regrettably incompatible with Wikipedia's due to its prohibition on commercial use and prohibition of creation of derivative works. -Kieran (talk) 23:09, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Joyceprof (talk) 10:54, 22 February 2012 (UTC) for the timebeing lets leave the current picture, i will see if i can source a recent one that is compliant with wiki's standards and copy rights

Sunday Times advertorial
Joyceprof (talk) 11:57, 21 February 2012 (UTC)Thank you,In 2012, the Sunday Times published a advertorial co-authored by Makgoba in which the UKZN "followed a protracted legal struggle mounted to protect its scientific autonomy against official impediments to legitimate AIDS research..[45] The previous sentense is not a claim but  a matter of fact that is recorded through three high-court proceedings that are in the public domain, i rephrased it reads better now.
 * An advertorial is hardly a reliable. If there were high court proceedings, those should be cited specifically, but unless they make specific reference to academic freedom, then the link is purely Makgoba's opinion (at least as far as reliable sources have said). -Kieran (talk) 22:19, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Joyceprof (talk) one can see its a co-authored article and it is a statement clearly.so far it has not been challenged by the MCC —Preceding undated comment added 08:11, 23 February 2012 (UTC).

List of links to articles removed from External links section

 * Freedom of Expression Institute site
 * Fight for Fazel Khan - Union Leader Fired from UKZN in 2006
 * Japan, Cabinet Office: Reflections on Hideyo Noguchi Africa Prize (2008) ***
 * ARTICLES ABOUT MALEGAPURU MAKGOBA
 * UKZN meeting thwarted
 * Controversial UKZN audit under wraps
 * More infighting at UKZN
 * ARTICLES ABOUT UNIVERSITY OF KWAZULU-NATAL
 * An opinion carries a high price
 * UKZN carpets critics
 * The vice in VC
 * The wrath of dethroned white males

I removed the above, as they are not really good official websites about the subject of the article. However, many of those links are likely to be of use in improving the article itself, so I am preserving them here for ease of access -Kieran (talk) 03:09, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Legal settlement wording/copyright violation
I've reverted the copy/pasted text from the lawyer's email to the summary I wrote earlier. Wholesale copying of blocks of copyrighted material does not comply with Wikipedia policies (see WP:COPYPASTE). Feel free to expand on or modify the summary to better reflect the content of the settlement if you feel that it does not do a sufficient job, but also try not to overwhelm the rest of the section (which is, as you have said, already getting long). Also please try to keep the wording correct about the source of the material -- this is a self-published private correspondence from a lawyer, not an unbiased independent source or an official part of the legal record. -Kieran (talk) 22:29, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Joyceprof (talk) 08:13, 23 February 2012 (UTC) The terms of this agreement were signed by Van den Berg and the VC and approved by the University council, The lawyer was simply restating the truth contained within the agreement that was signed by all parties. This should not be changed or sanitized

Joyceprof (talk) 17:21, 26 February 2012 (UTC) Kieran thank you for the minor edits that have improved the text and it reads better.

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