Talk:Malinois dog/Archive 1

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150206062822/http://www.ckc.ca/en/Files/Forms/Shows-Trials/Breed-Standards/Group-7-Herding/BLS-Belgian-Shepherd-Dog to http://www.ckc.ca/en/Files/Forms/Shows-Trials/Breed-Standards/Group-7-Herding/BLS-Belgian-Shepherd-Dog

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The Noah Dog
I don't know what the phrase "Noah Dog" means. It appears only in the infobox and isn't explained in the body copy. (I ended up here because the breed is mentioned in a New York Times story about veterinary medicine for dogs serving in Afghanistan.) Cynwolfe (talk) 21:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Anecdote
This talk page seems to be attracting people who are unfamiliar with the concept. That is, they don't seem to understand what "anecdotal evidence" is, and why it is of little value. I'm unfamiliar with the breed, but wonder whether it is possible to characterize the temperment of any group of animals the way this article does. Who is it who has run a study comparing this breed with a significant number of others in order to determine how they "rate" on "the scale"? My guess is even law enforcement organizations are relying more on experience than established facts. (You'd have to first randomly select a genetically diverse sample from each "breed" you wanted to compare, raise them in suffiently diverse environments, and then compare their behavior analytically. This would require, I'm guessing, the study of THOUSANDS of dogs (tens of millions of dollars). If you carefully controlled the environment they were raised in, you could reduce that to dozens or hundreds, but the findings would only then be relevant to similar types of environments. Science 101!) In other words, citation is necessary here.173.189.76.82 (talk) 17:58, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Lede needs an edit.
The lede contains the poor construction:"Its name is the French word for Mechlinian, which in Dutch is either Mechelse herdershond or Mechelse scheper (both meaning: shepherd dog from Mechelen) or Mechelaar (one from Mechelen)." I think this is terribly written and awkward construction. Is the word "Belgian" a French word? Is Belgian Malinois a (single) word? Why is "Mechlinian" relevant here? Is someone seriously saying that the name originated in the Dutch, then migrated to French and on to English? No (or if so, give the citation). My suggestion is to explain that the dogs were named after the Belgian city of Mechelen, known as Malinois in French, from which they originated. Keep it simple.173.189.76.82 (talk) 18:12, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Size - large or medium

 * The "medium to large" is not supported by the sources - the references state only "medium" so to state anything else is personal opinion and not supported. FCI and AKC standards do not give any classification of size, The Kennel Club lists it as "medium" - check under 'General appearance' in the breed standard. Sorry, we appreciate though your contributions, and have a nice day. Hafspajen (talk) 08:26, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

AKC standards
Just because AKC is American, does not mean that they should be disregarded.

The dog is large. Open your eyes and you might realize that.

Spacecowboy420 (talk) 12:32, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
 * See the section immediately above this. The FCI standard, p. 3 under 'General appearance' states it is "mediolineal"; the Kennel Club standard states "Medium-sized dog" under 'General appearance'. A search for the word 'large' on both the AKC web page you link (as a bare URL) and when downloading the full pdf version of its standard finds no instances of the word large. SagaciousPhil  - Chat 12:51, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I think on the AKC page that I used as a source, it's a flash based site (or something similar) so a text search won't find the word large. erm...let me screenshot it and put a link here. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:25, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

http://i66.tinypic.com/ke9mjn.jpg also google search "akc malinois standard large size" and you will see it as the first result. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:33, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

anyway, as AKC clearly states that it's a large breed, KC is just as clear that it's a medium breed and the FCI classification being based on the Belgian Shepherd ( Groenendael/Laekenois/Tervuren/Malinois) being considered one breed - then solving this might prove tricky.

So, because I'm nice and don't want an edit war, I've changed it to "medium to large" which while not being what I wanted (large) and not what you wanted (medium) is a nice compromise and fairly reflects the two differing standards of the two organizations. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:42, 13 November 2015 (UTC)


 * And if you read the KC standards closely, they are the same as the FCI. They don't recognize the Malinois as a breed, they just consider it to be one of the four accepted varieties of the Belgian Shepherd. So their standard is referring to the Belgian Shepherd, not the Malinois. "Medium-sized dog, well proportioned, intelligent, attentive, hardy and alert. [Four Varieties: Groenendael; Laekenois, Malinois and Tervueren.]" I think that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Shepherd#Breeds_versus_varieties_controversy covers it pretty well.

So unless you want to gain some form of consensus that the Malinois is merely a variety of Belgian Shepherd and totally disregard the standards set by the AKC, I guess the breed standards have to be based on the AKC, because they actually recognize it as a breed. How can we have a sentence saying "it's a medium breed of dog" when the organization that says it's medium sized, doesn't even recognize it as a breed? That just wouldn't make much sense, would it?

In the interests of the article, it might be worth mentioning the controversy regarding breed vs variety on this article, as well as the Belgian Shepherd article. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:58, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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Should we have an article on Diesel?
Diesel (dog) currently redirects here, because the French police dog killed while hunting terrorists was a Malinois. Apparently the dog was previously decorated for other acts of heroism, so I am wondering if a separate article may be in order. Cheers! bd2412 T 19:38, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Moving back to Belgian Shepherd Dog (Malinois)
See List of dog breeds for a fairly well-researched & negotiated list of dog breeds to use in Wikipedia. WikiProject Dog breeds also has discussions at various levels and sublevels. AKC is the only registry that calls the breed Belgian Malinois; all other major English-language registries call it Belgian Shepherd Dog and consider it just a coat variation, or Belgian Shepherd Dog (Malinois). That's why it was the way it was. If Belgian Malinois wasn't already set up as a redir to BSD (M), that was an oversight. Elf | Talk 04:13, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)