Talk:Malmö IP

Cliftonian comments

 * Lead
 * Where you have "Malmö sports field" and "The old sports field", these should not be in italics, but should have quotation marks—Malmö Idrottsplats ("Malmö sports field"), commonly referred to simply as Malmö IP and sometimes as Gamla IP ("The old sports field")
 * Don't wikilink football stadium to soccer-specific stadium; almost exclusively North American concept (and not even true in this case as Malmo IP has been used for other sports too). I'd reword to say something like "stadium in Malmo, Sweden, that is primarily used for association football"
 * Don't wikilink Sweden, everybody knows what that is
 * Perhaps reword to "As of 2014, it is home to the ladies football club FC Rosengård, currently playing in Damallsvenskan; the men's clubs Malmö FF and IFK Malmö have played there in the past."
 * "The stadium is the third largest in Malmö behind Malmö Stadion and Swedbank Stadion." perhaps add that these are the present home grounds of FF and IFK respectively—"The stadium is the third largest in Malmö behind Malmö Stadion and Swedbank Stadion, the current home grounds of IFK Malmö and Malmö FF respectively."
 * "Malmö IP has also hosted the Sweden national football team on two occasions" Perhaps "The Sweden national football team has played at Malmö IP twice, in 1929 and 1949." (make clear this was a long time ago)
 * "The present day capacity of the stadium is 7,600, the capacity has changed ..." I'd move this sentence up to after the bit about the Sweden national team
 * "The ground's record attendance"→"Its record attendance"
 * "... with a grand opening on 4 July 1896." After this I'd put a sentence saying that IFK moved in in 1903 and FF in 1910, and that both played there until 1958. "IFK Malmö took up residence at the ground in 1903, with Malmö FF also doing so seven years later; both remained until 1958, when they moved to Malmö Stadion, which had just been built for the 1958 FIFA World Cup."
 * "Extensive redevelopment and restoration was carried out both between 1978–1980 and in 1999" Try "Extensive redevelopment and restoration was carried out between 1978 and 1980, and in 1999; the two Malmö clubs returned following this latter renovation, but Malmö FF went back to Malmö Stadion after a single season. The laying of artificial turf before the 2008 season led IFK to return to Malmö Stadion in protest."
 * "The stadium is located on the other side of Pildammsparken from where both Malmö Stadion and Malmö FF's current home stadium Swedbank Stadion are located." This isn't clear. What is Pildammsparken? How is it on the other side? Is it in the east and the two Stadions in the west?


 * All done. --Reckless182 (talk) 20:04, 19 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Early history
 * "Malmö IP was built in 1896 with the original purpose of arranging events such as velocipede competitions, gymnastics, wrestling, athletics and tennis" Try "Malmö IP was built in 1896 to host cycling, gymnastics, wrestling, athletics and tennis events" (I'd use "cycling" rather than velocipede—nobody says "velocipede" in English, it's a very obscure term that sounds like a very fast centipede)
 * "Velocipede competitions had previously been organized by the local sports club Malmö Velocipedklubb (abbreviated MVK) at a temporary sports field in Rörsjöstaden since 24 August 1890, this was also where the first football match was played in Malmö when Danish club Københavns Boldklub played an exhibition game on 12 October 1890."→"Cycling competitions had been organised by Malmö Velocipedklubb (MVK) 24 August 1890, at a temporary sports field in Rörsjöstaden. This was also the venue for the first association football match in Malmö, a friendly match on 12 October 1890 featuring Kjøbenhavns Boldklub of Denmark."
 * "The members of MVK were impressed by the new sport and decided to start a football section of their own." "decided to start"→"started"
 * "In 1893 it became clear to MVK that the sports field in Rörsjöstaden only was a temporary solution since the area was to be developed for housing in the near future" How about "After the Rörsjöstaden field was earmarked for a new housing development, MVK began to explore the idea of a new ground."
 * "The club pitched this to the local municipality, Malmö Stad, which in February 1894 presented plans for a new sports field in the north-east of the city, in what is today Teatern, a neighbourhood in Innerstaden district."
 * "After consulting with its members, the board of MVK agreed to the proposal and signed a 15 year lease with Malmö Stad" Perhaps "The MVK board consulted its members, then agreed and signed a 15-year lease on the site."
 * Aktiebolag—say what this is and put it in italics as it's a non-English word. I would put something like "To raise funds for the ground's construction and the annual lease payments, an aktiebolag (limited company) called AB Malmö Idrottsplats was formed in March 1896."
 * Perhaps mention Frick was from Malmö? Also why put a picture of the bust when you could put an actual picture of him? Is this bust at Malmo IP? If so mention that in the caption
 * "The company's chairman was Carl Frick, a sea captain and local sports enthusiast who wanted to contribute to sports in Malmö." Perhaps "This company was chaired by Carl Frick a locally-born sea captain and sports enthusiast." (no need to put "who wanted to contribute to sports", we've already said he's a sports enthusiast)
 * "The final construction cost for the sports field was 44,000 kronor in 1896 monetary value, roughly 2,930,000 kronor in 2014 monetary value" try "The final construction costs for the new ground were 44,000 kronor, roughly 2,930,000 kronor in modern terms." (how can you say "in 2014 terms" when the source is from 1996?)
 * "The area for the sports field was originally 4 hectare" Perhaps "The ground originally spanned 4 ha" (use )
 * "Construction of Malmö IP started in March 1896 and ended in July the same year." Move this sentence back to before where you say how much it cost.
 * "Malmö IP was inaugurated on 4 July 1896 with velocipede competitions and with pertaining betting being organized." Try "Malmö IP opened on 4 July 1896 with cycling competitions, accompanied by organised betting."
 * "When the sports field was inaugurated its intended purposes was velocipede competitions on the oval track circumventing the grass area and association football, gymnastics, ice skating as well as athletics on the grass pitch." Perhaps "The ground was originally intended for cycling as well as association football, gymnastics, athletics and ice skating; an oval cycling track surrounded the grass pitch where the latter four sports were played."
 * "MVK disbanded its velocipede section in 1902 after betting had been made illegal in Sweden in 1897 and the club had a difficult time attracting spectator to Malmö IP to watch the competitions." Perhaps "MVK disbanded its cycling section in 1902, five years after Sweden outlawed gambling in 1897; this had caused attendances to plummet."
 * "MVK also disbanded its football section and thus the club in its entirety in 1900 due to the loss of interest for the game in the city as well as the fact that a large pavilion had been placed in the middle of the pitch at Malmö IP in 1899, making any football related activities impossible at that time." Maybe "The construction of a large pavilion in the centre of the pitch in 1899 made football impossible, contributing to the end of MVK's football section in 1900; the sport had so far failed to win much local popularity in any case."
 * "The pavilion was removed and a new pitch was laid out in 1905 when the city decided to campaign for more organized football around the city" Maybe "After football became more popular in Malmö in the early 1900s, the pavilion was removed in 1905, with a new pitch concurrently laid out."
 * "Malmö IP has to present day been used to celebrate national holidays such as the National Day of Sweden, Midsummer as well as the International Workers' Day. On 18 September 1897 Malmö IP hosted the 25th jubilee of King Oscar II of Sweden which was celebrated with a large occasion and subsequent party. Over 10,000 people attended the event to celebrate the king." Reword and rearrange: On 18 September 1897, Malmö IP hosted a large celebration marking King Oscar II's Silver Jubilee; over 10,000 people attended. The ground continues to be used on events such as national holidays to the present day."
 * "The annual fee was removed in 1899 and instead the sports field was given a yearly grant of 1,500 kronor as long as the school children of Malmö were given free access to the sports field for a couple of hours daily." Maybe "The annual lease payments were cancelled in 1899 and replaced with a subsidy of 1,500 kronor a year, conditional on local schoolchildren receiving free access to the pitch for a few hours each day."
 * "The adjoining facility named Stora Hallen (The great hall) which originally served as an indoor arena for tennis and later used as riding stables was redeveloped into an indoor dance hall with an adjoining restaurant in 1910, the establishment came to be named Boston Palace." Try "Stora Hallen ("The great hall"), an adjoining building that had served first as a tennis arena, then riding stables, was redeveloped in 1910 into a dance hall and restaurant called Boston Palace."
 * "This was done to increase profits for Malmö IP as the earlier activities wasn't enough." Try just "This was done in the hope of increasing the ground's profits as it was struggling financially."
 * "The redevelopment was criticized by some as dancing was seen as an "immoral" activity that shouldn't be connected with sports." Try "The redevelopment was criticised by some who contended that dancing was an immoral pastime with nothing to do with sport."
 * "In 1914 the Baltic Exhibition was held in Malmö with pertaining sports event during June and July." Try "When Malmö hosted the Baltic Exhibition in 1914, Malmö IP hosted releveant sporting events during June and July."
 * I would mention here that IFK and FF were playing here by this point.
 * "minor sport clubs in Malmö against the company's tendency to favour the bigger clubs" Which were the minor and major clubs at this time?
 * "with a settlement of 160,000 kronor, roughly 4,600,000 kronor in 2014 monetary value" see above, this doesn't really work in English
 * "The municipality overtook ownership of Malmö IP on 1 January 1938." need a reference
 * I would cut into a new section here, this seems a good place for a break
 * "The future of Malmö IP came into discussion first in 1933..." I would move this whole paragraph up to above the World War II one

I will come back for more, I hope these are helpful —Cliftonian (talk) 17:41, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I've dealt with all of these now. Thank you very much for this! For the section break, what would be your suggestion for the name of a new section after "The municipality overtook ownership of Malmö IP on 1 January 1938."? --Reckless182 (talk)</b></b> 19:05, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry I have been away for a few days, I was needed elsewhere. I have done some copyediting on the new stuff and directly on the next few paragraphs down to the Athletics section

I think the above would work better in the main prose as part of the main narrative.
 * Athletics
 * I would look at reintegrating these two sections into the main prose of the history section. I think some of the stuff can be binned but other details are interesting and should be kept; here are my thoughts.
 * 1) "Athletics overtook football and velocipede competitions at Malmö IP after MVK's exit and the entrance of IFK Malmö who were founded in April 1899."—change velocipede to cycling, wikilink IFK Malmö
 * 2) "IFK Malmö arranged competitions such as 100 metres, running an english mile, early forms of high jump competitions as well as pentathlons which involved long jump, javelin throw, 100 metres, discus throw as well as wrestling as the final event where the two last competitors would face each other to win the pentathlon. IFK Malmö also arranged ice skating competition at Malmö IP during the winter months in Sweden. On 7 November 1901 then Swedish crown prince and later king of Sweden Gustaf V attended one of IFK Malmö's athletics competitions, the crown prince reportedly enjoyed this experience very much. Equestrianism and tennis was other activities that was very popular at Malmö IP during the turn of the century. Crown prince Gustaf V often played tennis at Malmö IP when he was stationed in Malmö during his military education in 1904."—Crown Prince should have capital letters (as should King); you don't need to say "Swedish Crown Prince" or "King of Sweden"; "Crown Prince" and "Sweden" are enough (in English it is clear from the context we mean the King of Sweden if no country is specified). I would put "the Swedish winter months" rather than "winter months in Sweden". I think the two bits about Crown Prince Gustav would go better together (move the second sentence to after the bit with the horse-riding)—his enjoying the athletics might have contributed to his going back there to play tennis when he was later stationed in the city.
 * 3) "On 26 August 1908 several members of IFK Malmö left the club due to differences in opinion regarding club administration. . Starting October the same year MAI started to arrange competitions in athletics and participate and compete against their rivals IFK Malmö. Swedish javelin thrower Eric Lemming set two new world records in the very first international competition that MAI hosted on 10–11 July 1909. For the 1912 Summer Olympics in Stockholm seven athletes from Malmö participated. Earlier wrestler Frithiof Mårtensson had won the city's first Olympic gold medal when he competed at the 1908 Summer Olympics in London."—I don't think this is relevant enough to cover in so much detail. I would move this into the main prose and crop down to "Several members of IFK Malmö left the club on 26 August 1908 due to differences in opinion regarding its administration; the dissidents formed Malmö Allmänna Idrottsförening (MAI) two weeks later." Did Lemming set the world records at Malmö IP? If not I'd cut that too. I'd definitely lose the other two sentences.
 * 4) "The record was first beaten by Arne Andersson on 18 July 1944, his record lasted until Gunder Hägg beat it almost exactly a year later on 17 July 1945." You need a citation here.


 * Football
 * I think you could lose almost all of the first paragraph. I would cut most of it and fit the following bit into the main narrative:
 * "The most successful and first club dedicated solely to football in these early years was Malmö BI (then abbreviated MBI and now called FC Rosengård after various mergers and names changes) which was founded in 1904 by former players from MVK."


 * Try and fit the above sentence and the second and third paragraphs back into the main history prose.

Hope this helps, will be back to continue <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 18:46, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I've merged the two sections with the main prose. I removed some of the sentences that were duplicated and tried to mix and match the others with the main prose. Let me know what you think. --<b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC"><b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">Reckless182</b> <b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">(talk)</b></b> 21:38, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I did a bit of copy-editing and moved the images around a bit, I hope you don't mind. There are some places that need references, look for paragraphs with no citations at the end.
 * I don't mind at all, it looks great! I'll do the reference work later this weekend or early next week. --<b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC"><b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">Reckless182</b> <b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">(talk)</b></b> 12:20, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Later history
 * I would mention at the end of the previous section that FF and IFK moved to Stadion in 1958; this would make things more clear-cut
 * "it's opening"→its opening
 * "the cities association football" "the city's association football" ("cities" is plural, city's is singular possessive, cities' is plural possessive)
 * "the athletic club still retained Malmö IP as their base of training activities and some national competitions" We mean the MAI athletic club?
 * "where moved to"→"were moved to"
 * You don't need to wikilink discus throw again
 * Maybe mention that Bruch was an Olympian
 * Is Hästhagen a new ground, or an area where a new ground was?
 * "two club's"→"two clubs"
 * "the 1960's"→"the 1960s"
 * Make clear that Rosengård and Kronprinsen are neighbourhoods (the vast majority of the people reading this in English will not be familiar with the geography of Malmö)
 * You don't need to wl handball again
 * "the 1930's"→"the 1930s"
 * "in order to"→"to". "in order to" is superficially better English but means nothing; it adds nothing but two extra words
 * "it's facilities"→"its facilities"
 * "lead"→"led"
 * "1970's"→"1970s"
 * "1920's"→"1920s"
 * Some more bits without references here, try to find
 * All done! --<b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC"><b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">Reckless182</b> <b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">(talk)</b></b> 12:20, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Structure and facilities


 * "one minor stand" should probably be "one smaller stand"
 * "The Southern Stand which is located along one of the long sides of the pitch is the main stand, this stand is seated" try "The main stand is the Southern Stand, which is all-seated and located along one of the long sides of the pitch."
 * "The short sides of the pitch features one terraced stand in the west and a seated stand in the east." Try "The Western and Eastern Stands, at opposite ends of the ground behind the two goals, are respectively terraced and seated."
 * "On the opposite side of the Southern Stand are three stands of different size and character, one stand with terracing, one stand with seating and the last and smallest stand is a plain stand under roof." Try "Opposite the Southern Stand are three inconsistent structures—from west to east, a stand with terracing, another with seats and a small standing area with a canopy."
 * "The Southern Stand feature the dugouts as well as changing rooms inside the stand. The stand also feature a small cafeteria and facilities for the referees. Also considered part of the stadium complex is the sports hall on the opposite side of the road from Malmö IP." Try "The dugouts, changing rooms and referees' facilities are located in the Southern Stand, which also features a small cafeteria. A sports hall across the road is also considered part of the stadium."
 * Across the road from which stand is the sports hall mentioned above? The Southern Stand? This would be worth mentioning. Does it have a name? (In my experience these kinds of things are often named after a former player or manager)
 * I would cut the second paragraph of this section in half

Okay, I'll come back to this to finish later, I hope all this helps <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 13:40, 24 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I think it would be better to have this picture: File:Malmö IP.jpg at the top of the page in the infobox as it actually shows the inside of the ground; the one of the entrance can go further down at the top of "Structure and facilities" (alternately you could put a plan of the stands here) <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 13:45, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree so I replaced the image. I'll take a look and see if I can draw a nice plan of the stands. Thanks man! --<b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC"><b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">Reckless182</b> <b style="color:white; background:#6A9AFC">(talk)</b></b> 12:20, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I went through, copyedited myself and changed the picture of the station (more helpful to show the station from outside I think, the old image just showed a train by a platform and could have been anywhere). Some general thoughts:
 * Perhaps mention in the "Second renovation and modern history (since 1995)" section that the ground re-opened with a capacity of 7,600 (gives more context)
 * "The stadium is the third largest in Malmö behind Malmö Stadion and Swedbank Stadion, the current home grounds of IFK Malmö and Malmö FF respectively." This is in the lead but not mentioned in the body
 * "The stadium is located on the northern side of Malmö's largest park, Pildammsparken, with Malmö Stadion and Swedbank Stadion both to the park's south." also this
 * Look at places lacking references

I think this is all for now. Well done and I hope all this informal review has helped. Let me know if there's anything else I can help with. Cheers and have a great weekend! <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">—<b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">Cliftonian</b> <b style="color:white; background:darkgreen">(talk)</b></b> 14:15, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

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