Talk:Manchester Ship Canal/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Pyrotec (talk) 14:37, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * A "MF" article, must review it. Pyrotec (talk) 14:37, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Initial comments
This looks like a good article so I don't expect to have to say much in respect of "problems".


 * General -
 * I'm slowly working my way through the article and found a reference in the Lead to 7 million tons (I seem to recall a conversation in Local Hero about million pound(s) - a new kind of pound(s)) and 50-ton boats in History; and gross tons in Operational history (note there is a gross tonnage article). I know a ton and a tonne are almost the same: but the metric police are not going like this and arguments over short tons and long tons could break out at any moment.
 * I may misremembering, so I'll need to check,, but I have a recollection that because metric tonnes and imperial (long) tons (not US short tons) differ by rather an insignificant amount that conversions were considered unnecessary. Malleus Fatuorum 20:05, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, metric tonnes and imperial tons are quite similar, but the Yanks (woops, I should not make these racist remarks) think that "tonnes" is quaint english and a typo for "ton". The real problems are that: the British ton and the US ton are not the same, so 50-ton boats should be written as 50 lt boat (with or without the link=on) so that any ambiguity over short or long ton is removed; some editors don't understand non-metric units; and, to make things worse it appears that the tonnage of sea-going boats is measured in short tons not long tons. In short, the ambiguity is the type of ton implied by the state "x ton"; plus you go to jail (and your scales are confiscated) in the UK if you sell bananas by the lb., so I'm recomending that the ton is defined as short or long and the metric equivalent is given (the template convert can be used but I'm not insisting on its use). Pyrotec (talk) 20:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK. I think I've added all the necessary long ton -> short ton conversions, and been explicit elsewhere about what unit is being used. As the long ton and tonne are for all practical purposes equivalent, I've been explicit about long tons and given conversions to short tons. Malleus Fatuorum 02:24, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * As for the tonnage of sea-going boats, it's not a unit at all, it's calculated, therefore conversions would be meaningless. Malleus Fatuorum 02:28, 29 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: I was working on the basis of WP:Manual of Style, which suggests that in statements the numbers 1 to 9 are written as words and bigger numbers as numbers: hence my edit "five of 15". The clause "five of fifteen" seems to be entirely reasonable, but not perhaps "...5 of 15...". Believe it or not, I used to be quite sane before I started reviewing GAN's. Pyrotec (talk) 20:35, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * History -
 * I assume, looking at a 1890 rail atlas, that the three lines between Liverpool & Manchester are: LN&W, CLC & L&Y, but there might to two LN&W routes (a direct one thru Newton le Willows and a less direct one through Warrington) - I'm not especially looking for them to be named, since the statements have citations.


 * ✅ Pyrotec (talk) - "The Shirley Institute", I've heard of that - no action required for that ; but I would have expected parliament, as in "submitted to parliament", to have a capital "P".
 * I think you're right about "parliament", now capitalised. Malleus Fatuorum 20:05, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

....stopping for now. To be continued. Pyrotec (talk) 11:39, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Route -
 * Docks and wharfs -
 * I think this sentence "Pomona Docks have been filled in and to large extent remain derelict, but No. 3 Dock is still intact and has a lock connecting the ship canal to the Bridgewater Canal, which runs parallel to it at this point ...", should read: "Pomona Docks have been mostly/mainly/or suitable words filled in and to large extent remain derelict, but No. 3 Dock is still intact ..."
 * Changed to "Pomona Docks have been filled in and remain largely derelict except for the still intact No. 3 Dock, which has a lock connecting it to the nearby Bridgewater Canal at the point where the two canals run in parallel. Malleus Fatuorum 05:25, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Manchester Ship Canal Railway -
 * A minor point, and I'm not making this mandatory for GA. Since "the MSC Railway was able to receive and despatch goods trains to and from all the UK's main line railway systems, using connecting junctions at three points in the terminal docks.", its a Standard gauge railway. That could be made explicit by e.g. stating: "To service the freight landed at the canal's docks, the standard gauge Manchester Ship Canal Railway was created ...."
 * What I know about railways wouldn't even cover a very small postage stamp, so I'd be quite happy with a change along those lines. Malleus Fatuorum 22:22, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Changed to "The standard gauge Manchester Ship Canal Railway was built to service freight to and from the canal's docks ...". Malleus Fatuorum 22:36, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Present-day -
 * Refs 76 (Peal Holdings) & 77 (Dft) need tweaking. The former comes up with a 404 error (not found) and the later also has a 404 error but it also has a text message detailing the address of an archived version of the page at The National Archives.
 * I just noticed the problem with ref #76 myself, and have replaced the dead web link with a book. I'll take a look at #77 now. Malleus Fatuorum 22:20, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ref #77 now fixed as well. Malleus Fatuorum 23:24, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

There are a few minor "problems" that need fixing and some suggestions that are not mandatory for awarding GA-status. I'm therefore going to add my final comments, below, but leave the "pass/fail" as unmarked for now. Pyrotec (talk) 21:31, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much. Perhaps I aught to check for copyvios, but its far easier to blame the reviewer for not finding them. Pyrotec (talk) 07:05, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Overall comments
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria


 * 1) Is it reasonably well written?
 * A. Prose quality:
 * B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
 * 1) Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
 * A. References to sources:
 * B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
 * C. No original research:
 * 1) Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Major aspects:
 * B. Focused:
 * 1) Is it neutral?
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * Pass or Fail:

Congratulations on anither fine article and a GA. Pyrotec (talk) 07:05, 29 July 2011 (UTC)