Talk:Mandatory Palestine national football team

The association's name
We need to find the official name of the association that governed this national team. According to Henshaw, it was called the "Palestine Football Association". If this is dispute by other sources, please provide them here. Regards.-- MarshalN20 | T al k 14:41, 20 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I want you to read some parts of this PDF, posted by the IFA, but have more than 50 refs, unlike many 3rd sources. This is what I found in many books I checked, included a Lord from England who tried to make the Jewish football more success and so on.

representatives to the founding assembly of the Eretz Israel Football Association (EIFA), set to take place on 14 August in the Maccabi Eretz Israel offices on Hasolel Street in Jerusalem. Fourteen Jews and one Arab attended the meeting. The Maccabi members were: Rosenthal, Uri Nadav, Perez Dagan, Yosef Yekutieli, Yisrael Gott, Stephen Trek, Mordechai Ben-Dror, Ezra Ichilov, Yula Braun, Meir Kaspi and Ephraim Rubinstein. The Hapoel members were: Yisrael Karmi, Aaron Orik and Ephraim Pearlstein. The Arab representative was a member of the Nuseiba family and represented the Islamic A Nadi A-Riadi sports club. A five-member directorate was elected: three Maccabi members (Trek, Rosenthal and Yekutieli) and two Hapoel members (Karmi and Orik). Stephen Trek of Maccabi served as the first chairman of the Association.45 Because the EIFA delegates represented all Eretz Israel teams (no British representatives attended the founding assembly but they joined later. A British representative, Spicer, also served as the second chairman of the Association), it could request membership in FIFA. In December 1928 the Association was accepted provisionally by FIFA and on 17 May 1929 its membership became permanent.". – HonorTheKing (talk) 17:23, 20 July 2013 (UTC) – HonorTheKing (talk) 17:35, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "In early August 1928 the Maccabi Association asked the Eretz Israel football teams to send
 * Now about the cup mention, it was called The ‘Eretz Israel’ British cup, but was called the People's Cup, for short. (seen this in few newspaper clips from the given years)
 * I personaly belive the word Palestine was added so decribe the place in took place but not the actuall name of it. The Fact that also FIFA books keep calling it Eretz Israel FA, make it quiet obious if you ask me.
 * Here is a source given by UEFA to mention the name Eretz Israel FA (they call it Eretz Israel – Palestine Football Association). UEFA

– HonorTheKing (talk) 17:52, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I trust your information, but some considerable discrepancies are provided by third party sources. For example, here are a few quotes from the books I have available:
 * John Nauright, Sports Around the World: "Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, the Palestine Football Association became the Israel Football Association and the Arab sporting bodies faded into obscurity."
 * J.A. Mangan, Europe, Sport, World: "At all events, in 1929 the Palestine Football Association was accepted as a member of FIFA, with the application being recommended by the Egyptian Football Association."
 * Jack Kugelmass, Jews, Sports, and Rites of Citizenship: "The first local football league was established in 1920 and by the end of the decade, the Palestine Football Association was founded."
 * Steve Menary, Outcasts!: The Lands That Fifa Forgot: "The Palestine Football Association was formed in 1928, when Palestine was ruled under a British mandate."
 * The Cambridge Dictionary of Judaism and Jewish Culture: "The Palestine Football Association was established in 1928, and a league comprising British, Jewish, and Arab teams debuted in 1932."
 * It seems that, per WP:WEIGHT, the predominant academic consensus is in favor of the name "Palestine Football Association".
 * The authors you mention seem to include the title "Eretz Israel" to help distinguish it from the current association under the same name. I think this is worth a note (in the notes section) in the article.
 * Best regards.-- MarshalN20 | T al k 17:49, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yep I see, How about calling it Eretz Israel-Palestine FA. So many sources give either name or both name combained, but the fact is that they both support the same claim. It is the same FA.

– HonorTheKing (talk) 18:46, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, all the sources agree that there was a name change in the FA, but it's the same one.
 * I need to think about the naming for a while. Perhaps we should open an RfC to get some outside views?
 * The question would be to call it either "Eretz Israel - Palestine Football Association" or simply "Palestine Football Association". The latter is the official name, but the former is the one apparently used to identify it more specifically.
 * Truly interesting situation. Regards.-- MarshalN20 | T al k 18:14, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes it will be good to open RfC but one important thing to take also into account on the first Eretz Israel-Palestine is that the goverment body that request and entred FIFA was named Hitachduth Eretz Yisraelit Lakadur Regel (Eretz Israel FA), and not mentioning it will simply be wrong.

File:Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg
The Flag of Mandatory Palestine is probably the best flag to use for this article (if a flag has to be used), but during 1927-1948 it was basically an obscure merchant shipping flag, and I'm not sure it would have been associated with the team then... AnonMoos (talk) 16:23, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The flag here, just like the name, is just a matter of formality. This team was associated solely with the Jewish community in Mandatory Palestine. Infantom (talk) 15:42, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The team name isn't a "formality." Mandatory Palestine was the name under which the team played in official records.-- MarshalN20 T al k 01:53, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Relation to Palestine
As the sources in the article already point out, this team is associated with the Israeli national team and not the Palestinian. Please provide wp:rs to prove differently. Infantom (talk) 00:32, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

I am really wondering why you are still instisting that this team do not belong to Palestine as well as Israel. In 1928 there were both Arabs and Jews in the country if you forgot this fact. Despite being a team consisting of only Jewish players that is not a reason to devise it to Israel which appeared in 1948. The mandate was called Palestine or EY so the first name is legal to use it in the article. Here you have some reliable sources as a confirmation: --Opdire657 (talk) 07:59, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Historical background Palestinian Football Association
 * Palestine football team celebrate their first home game for 77 years ago despite defeat Al Arabiya
 * Palestine national soccer team achieves highest-ever FIFA ranking Council for the National Interest
 * Palestine scores historic goal with Asian Cup qualification Green Left Weekly
 * Palestinians and FIFA try football diplomacy against Israel Euronews


 * This team was associated solely with the Jewish community and is the predecessor of the Israeli national team. Your sources are illegitimate and confirm nothing, Palestinian Football Association, Ma'an and Al Arabiya are not RS. The rest are insufficient.
 * FIFA, the most important source for this matter says it clearly:
 * Israel: Affiliated since:1929.
 * Palestine: Affiliated since:1998.
 * Why would FIFA associate this team with Israel and not with Palestine if it was "blong to both"? The answer is obvious.
 * More from FIFA:
 * About Palestine: "The modern Palestine, an Arab state, has no connection with the Palestine (then a British mandate) delegations that played in the qualifying games for 1934 & 1938 under the name of Hitachduth Eretz Yisraelit Lakadur Regel."
 * About Israel: "A Jewish delegation from Palestine (then a British mandate) played at the qualifying games for 1934 & 1938. It was the first Jewish national team, and as such the forerunner of Israel. Was relocated from Asia’s to Europe’s group in 1954."
 * Infantom (talk) 11:09, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

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Dubious claim
Since the team’s first international matches were against Egypt, who are culturally similar to Palestinian Arabs, this obviously isn’t right. Issam Khalidi says that it was because “ Immediately, after being accepted in FIFA, the Jewish leadership started to dominate the Palestine Football Association by ensuring that Jews were the majority in it. This was accomplished by such strategies as imposing the Hebrew language and incorporating the Jewish flag in the federation’s logo.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onceinawhile (talk • contribs) 23:10, 23 April 2020 (UTC+2) (UTC)
 * do you have a source for Khalidi's claims? If so, I think we should rephrase the statement in the article into something like "Palestinian Arabs, specifically those of Islamic beliefs, did not participate in football's early formation. While some attribute the Arabs' absence to their resistance to "Western cultural institutions", others, such as scholar Issam Khalidi, believe that Jewish leadership in the Palestinian Football Association sought to make sure that the Jews were the majority, accomplished by imposing Hebrew as the official language, and incorporating the Jewish flag in the Federation's logo." Nehme1499 (talk) 23:28, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Nehme, I just added the source (and one other).
 * Our current sentence about not participating is factually disproven by Khalidi’s documentation of early Arab participation. My point about Egypt emphasizes it – the Egyptian team seems to have been quite strong in 1934 given the results, so the idea that Arabs didn’t like football because it was Western seems to be nonsense. Onceinawhile (talk) 23:39, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * By the time of the 1934 game against Egypt, the arabs had formally left the national team (which they had been boycotting ), and formed their own, "no Jews allowed", association. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk)
 * Ok I've cleaned up the article a bit. Should look good now. Nehme1499 (talk) 00:06, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

It's a bit more complex than that. While the Jewish leadership certainly did not encourage Arab participation, it was the Arab clubs that decided to leave the federation of their own accord, and create their own federation (from which Jews were officially excluded). See The Palestinian soccer league: A microcosm of a national struggle JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 01:21, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * This is a great improvement. Thank you it is great to have this important question finally cleared up. Onceinawhile (talk) 05:56, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Cited information cannot be deleted just because another source provides a different perspective. There is no wider literature on the matter besides these Henshaw, Khalid, and perhaps a few other folk. The solution here is to provide information on what both claim and leave it at that. We are not here to judge the validity of one claim over the other.--MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 19:47, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually ,it can. Verifiability does not guarantee inclusion, and all material in an article needs consensus. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 22:35, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Struck comments by, a blocked and banned sockpuppet. See and Long-term abuse/NoCal100 for details. — Newslinger   talk   16:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Team Logo
The actual team logo depicted in the article seems to contradict Khalidi's claim (currently in the article text) that the Zionist flag was incorporated into the logo. Suggestions on how to resolve this? JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 17:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Given that the Association was founded in 1928, they might have used a different logo back then. The logo in the article relates to the team's logo in 1938 (Global Sports Archive). In 1940 they seemed to have a variant of the logo (lineup v Lebanon), while in 1931 they had a P inside a circle (lineup in Egypt). Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">1499</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 18:05, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * None of those include the Zionist flag, though. I'll mark the claim as dubious, for now. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 18:27, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * What I'm trying to say is that the 1928 to 1930 logo might have contained a Zionist flag, before they changed it in 1931 to a P inside a circle, and to the logo present in the article in 1938. We don't know what the logo looked like in the late 1920s. <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">1499</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 18:35, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I get that. But absent an actual image showing such a logo, and in the face of 3 logos spanning the period 1931-1940 which do not have such an image, the claim seems dubious, and needs to flagged as such. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 18:43, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * That would be WP:OR. We cannot do that. Onceinawhile (talk) 19:35, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Once again, OR is allowed on talk pages, when evaluating sources' reliability. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 19:43, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I suggest you all find actual sources that dispute the claim. Our job is just to point out what Khalid claims, not to evaluate its truthiness.--<b style="color: Olive">MarshalN20</b> <sup style="color: maroon">✉ 🕊 19:45, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I am doing exactly what was done in the paragraph above- using OR to mark a section of dubious veracity as such in the article.JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 20:41, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * There's a clear and strict policy about WP:OR. Simply said, we don't do that in Wikipedia.--<b style="color: Olive">MarshalN20</b> <sup style="color: maroon">✉ 🕊 01:02, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * OR is allowed on talk pages .Familiarize yourself with policy: JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 01:06, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The fact that Issam Khalidi clamied that the Zionist flag was added to the logo is not dubious, it's a fact. Now, did that actually happen? We don't know. But given that we premised the statement in the article with "...according to soccer historian Issam Khalidi...", the "dubious tag" shouldn't be there. <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">1499</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 03:15, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, Nehme, you are correct.--<b style="color: Olive">MarshalN20</b> <sup style="color: maroon">✉ 🕊 04:30, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

You need to read the documentation for the "dubious" template - it is specifically for such cases where the material is verifiable (i.e., there's no question Khalidi wrote that), but its veracity is dubious. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 16:29, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Struck comments by, a blocked and banned sockpuppet. See and Long-term abuse/NoCal100 for details. — Newslinger   talk   16:31, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Henshaw
has added back the sentence that says: "According to soccer historian Richard Henshaw, Palestinian Arabs, specifically those of Islamic beliefs, refrained from participating in football's early formation due to their resistance to "Western cultural institutions."

Can anyone bring a quote from Henshaw supporting this? I have used the snippet search at but neither the word Islamic nor the phrase "cultural institutions" came up.

Onceinawhile (talk) 20:52, 23 April 2020 (UTC)


 * "Islamic beliefs throughout the Arab world resisted Western cultural institutions such as soccer until well after World War II, by which time Arab participation in the development of Israeli soccer was nearly impossible." <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">1499</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 21:27, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * That is in the 1979 version or the 1994 version? It appears to have been removed from the 1994 version per the snippet search. Perhaps with new research they realized it was incorrect?
 * If you have the full book, can you let us know what sources Henshaw points to for his information?
 * Also there is nothing about "refrained from participating" in there, just "resisting". Onceinawhile (talk) 21:32, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * This is from the 1979 book. There is no specific reference for that sentence. As far as I can see the book doesn't have inline citations. <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">1499</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 21:44, 23 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Henshaw is a reliable source. His book is a comprehensive encyclopedia about world soccer. The 1979 version is the authoritative, original version. The 1994 edition is an odd "update" that does not contain the same information as the 1979 version; it's mostly a gimmick for the 1994 FIFA World Cup. They are basically two different books. And, to clarify, no indication whatsoever exists that "with new research they realized it was incorrect". The quote clearly indicates that the Islamic Arabs did not participate in football's early formation due to their beliefs about Western culture. History is filled with different perspectives and it would be wise for everyone in this discussion to understand how to maintain WP:NPOV. Regards.--<b style="color: Olive">MarshalN20</b> <sup style="color: maroon">✉ 🕊 01:09, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * You are absolutely right about the 1994 version: . Onceinawhile (talk) 14:03, 24 April 2020 (UTC)


 * fair enough. What do you think about WP:AGE MATTERS? The lack of citation in Henshaw's encyclopedia entry reflects the lack of material research in the topic in the 1970s. In the last decade research on this topic has proliferated:
 * Orthodox clubs and their role in the development of the sports movement in Palestine 1923-1948 Issam Khalidi, 9 February 2015, History of Palestine Sports
 * I can't help thinking there is something off about stating "Islamic beliefs throughout the Arab world resisted Western cultural institutions such as soccer" during this period when Egypt reached the semi-finals in the 1928 Olympics, and Turkey and Egypt both played in the 1924 Olympics. And the same could be said of Jewish religious beliefs, per Harif and Galily (2003): "On the other hand, there were those who treated suspiciously, even with resentment, the growing popularity of this sport, which in their eyes represented a culture that stood in clear contradiction to traditional Jewish values".
 * Onceinawhile (talk) 07:43, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear: the book lacks inline citations, not citations altogether. There is a section at the end of the book dedicated to sources but, as they are too many, I can't tell which of the hundreds of references Henshaw used to source the "Islamic belief" claim. <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">1499</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 14:25, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * ok, thank you. I see you have written some excellent articles on Lebanese football - have you come across this idea of significant Islamic opposition to football pre-WWII in your reading there? It really seems very odd.
 * In Palestine, Issam Khalidi has documented football being widespread amongst Palestinian Arabs – both Muslim and Christian – in the 1910s, 1920s and 1930s.
 * Football in Egypt has been a big deal since the early 1920s (see 1922 Egypt Cup Final)
 * The same is true of the History of Turkish football
 * In Algeria the first Muslim club opened in 1898 (CS Constantine)
 * In Syria clubs were formed in the 1920s (e.g. Al-Karamah SC)
 * Even Saudi Arabia had clubs as early as the the 1920s (see Al-Ittihad Club (Jeddah))
 * Onceinawhile (talk) 15:14, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The history of football in Lebanon is a bit different than its other Middle Eastern counterparts as the nature of Lebanon itself was that of being a majority Christian country. Football in Lebanon was hugely dominated by the Armenian diaspora up until the 1960s (Homenetmen and Homenmen), as well as other Christian clubs (Nahda, Racing Beirut, Shabiba Mazraa). The first instance of a somewhat Muslim team winning the league was Nejmeh in 1972 (even though the club is relatively secular). Ansar in 1984 (a Sunni-based club) were the first "full-on Muslim" club to win the league. <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">1499</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 15:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * In Palestine, Issam Khalidi has documented football being widespread amongst Palestinian Arabs – both Muslim and Christian – in the 1910s, 1920s and 1930s.
 * Football in Egypt has been a big deal since the early 1920s (see 1922 Egypt Cup Final)
 * The same is true of the History of Turkish football
 * In Algeria the first Muslim club opened in 1898 (CS Constantine)
 * In Syria clubs were formed in the 1920s (e.g. Al-Karamah SC)
 * Even Saudi Arabia had clubs as early as the the 1920s (see Al-Ittihad Club (Jeddah))
 * Onceinawhile (talk) 15:14, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The history of football in Lebanon is a bit different than its other Middle Eastern counterparts as the nature of Lebanon itself was that of being a majority Christian country. Football in Lebanon was hugely dominated by the Armenian diaspora up until the 1960s (Homenetmen and Homenmen), as well as other Christian clubs (Nahda, Racing Beirut, Shabiba Mazraa). The first instance of a somewhat Muslim team winning the league was Nejmeh in 1972 (even though the club is relatively secular). Ansar in 1984 (a Sunni-based club) were the first "full-on Muslim" club to win the league. <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">1499</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 15:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

does the encyclopedia give a biography for Richard Henshaw? In the article we call him a historian, but I can't see any evidence of that. All I can find is that he was born in 1945. Onceinawhile (talk) 16:57, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * On that note, what is the basis for calling Khlalidi an historian? as best I can tell, he describes himself as an "independent scholar", with no formal qualifications in history. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 17:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The book reads: "Richard Henshaw, a long-time soccer aficionado, has spent seven years writing this book. As a soccer player himself, he reached no higher level than that of a university team in Italy, but while living in England in the 1960s he became a devoted student of the game. His articles have appeared in two dozen periodicals, and his work has often been linked to encyclopedic research, especially as a principal contributor to film encyclopedias and histories. He is presently [1979] at work on a narrative history of world soccer and lives in Washington, D.C." <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">1499</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 17:12, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Can't we call the two "football expert"? <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;color:#27B382">1499</b> (<b style="font-size:80%;color:#a9a9a9">talk</b>) 17:23, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I've seen Henshaw described as "soccer writer" in a reliable source -, I'd be ok with "football writer" or "expert" or "aficionado" for both of them. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 17:29, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I am fine with any of those. I just found Issam Khalidi's website, which is full of interesting articles. I think you might like this article in particular, given the article you have been writing on the 1940 Palestine vs Lebanon match: . Onceinawhile (talk) 18:15, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Another proof that Henshaw is wrong and Khalidi is right regarding the reason for this team being 100% Jewish, is that in the 1920s there were almost as many Christians as Jews in Palestine. Henshaw's sentence (blaming religion) does not explain why the Christian Palestinians also were not represented in the team, but Khalidi's explanation (blaming nationalism) does, since the majority of Christian Palestinians were and remain vehemently anti-Zionist. Onceinawhile (talk) 18:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Several of the sources provided in the list are by, or cite, Issam Khalidi. So, to claim that recent research on the topic has proliferated and provide as evidence the same author cited multiple times is misleading. Also, it is important to consider that being a "historian" does not require an official academic degree. "Scholar" or "researcher" would also seem like appropriate descriptions, but neither Khalidi nor Henshaw are simply "writers" or "aficionados".--<b style="color: Olive">MarshalN20</b> <sup style="color: maroon">✉ 🕊 05:02, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If they are to be described as scholars, we should write "independent scholars" so as not to create the wrong impression.
 * I have found a better source than these two: Professor Tamir Sorek of the University of Florida College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, where he is a Professor of Sociology and Professor of Jewish Studies. Sorek has written:
 * Sorek, Tamir (2003) 'Palestinian Nationalism Has Left the Field: a Shortened History of Arab Soccer in Israel', International Journal of Middle East Studies, 35, pp. 417–437; DOI: 10.1017.S0020743803000175
 * Can we agree that this is a much better source than either Henshaw or Khalidi? Onceinawhile (talk) 06:34, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * It's unclear to me what is the "wrong impression" about either Henshaw or Khalidi. If you are troubled about their reliability, you can always begin a case at the WP:RSN. Working at a university does not mean that an author is "better" than other authors. Professor Sorek brings up a couple of points in the article that are very useful for this discussion (emphasis added in bold):
 * "He analyzes the reasons behind the Arab team’s loss and calls for the introduction of professional training, “like the Jews and the Egyptians are doing.”"

- Sorek, p. 420


 * "By 1939, when the rebellion subsided, Arab soccer players remained without any institutional framework"

- Sorek, p. 420


 * So, the Palestinian Arabs contributed (inadvertently) to the Jewish dominance of the PFA by lacking a stronger professional structure for the sport. It may be possible that Henshaw was excluding the Egyptians from his definition of the "Arab world", but that's just a guess. Regardless, the point here is that we need to work with these different pieces of information, not try to impose one over the other just because we don't like a particular point of view (see: I just don't like it.--<b style="color: Olive">MarshalN20</b> <sup style="color: maroon">✉ 🕊 19:26, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * our policy states clearly that "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources... Some tertiary sources are more reliable than others, and within any given tertiary source, some entries may be more reliable than others."
 * My point is that we have very good reasons to doubt the tertiary source's claim that the lack of Palestinian Arab participation was due to religion. We have multiple secondary sources describing in detail how nationalism was the relevant factor.
 * Onceinawhile (talk) 11:39, 29 April 2020 (UTC)


 * You're imagining a single narrative about something that clearly has multiple explanations. I totally agree that the Zionist agenda of the PFA was the major factor in preventing Palestinian Arab participation. Nonetheless, we also have factors such as less professionalization/institutions (relative to the Palestinian Jews) and Henshaw's point about religious resistance (which none of sources provided deny or support). We must give proper WP:WEIGHT to the Zionist exclusion argument as the central factor, but these other additional elements are also worth mentioning (possibly in a footnote).--<b style="color: Olive">MarshalN20</b> <sup style="color: maroon">✉ 🕊 18:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This is very fair. I will implement it this way. Onceinawhile (talk) 16:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Struck comments by, a blocked and banned sockpuppet. See and Long-term abuse/NoCal100 for details. — Newslinger   talk   16:32, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 June 2021
Change this wikitext:

to

76.103.46.252 (talk) 22:30, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#27B382">1499</b> 23:02, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

1934
I just noticed that the year that the Arab members left was the same year that the team played its first matches. Do you know which happened first? It would be good to clarify in the article. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:00, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * That's interesting; I had never noticed that. Ideally, someone with 1934 Palestinian sources would be useful. <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#27B382">1499</b> 00:29, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

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