Talk:Manny Pacquiao/Archives/2010

Rematch? Payback?
Is it possible that a new section would be added? I just find this "In a bout held at Taguig City, Philippines, Pacquiao fought against Fahsan (3K-Battery) Por Thawatchai. Pacquiao sent 3K-Battery to the canvas three times en route to a knockout in the fourth round. A left uppercut to the jaw that lifted the Thai fighter's feet off the canvas ended the fight."statement pointless in its section. Can a Rematch section enough for this statement?

Also, this one ''"After the Morales bout, Pacquiao was in the limelight again during the first week of February 2006 when a waitress working in a Manila night club claimed that he was the father of her son, born out of a whirlwind affair with the boxer. The boxer, allegedly, was giving the child financial support which was also kept a secret from his wife, Jinkee, until she found out and caused a problem in their marriage, but soon mended." which is in the section of "Newfound Fame", I think that this paragraph doesn't fit fame (scandalous maybe?). Also, a little help with the organization of article might help. Domykneeko1319 (talk) 18:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Pacquiao & Mosley done deal http://boxingcommunity.org/articles/5-news/1286-pacquiao-a-mosley-done-deal.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.181.147 (talk) 00:17, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Torrecampo fight
I have heard that his first "KO" loss was in fact a clear low blow. I think it's worth mentioning, considering the level of his opponent in this fight. 218.195.21.16 (talk) 20:37, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

False!, He was CLEARLY hit with a shot to the body. I dont know what fight you watched..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.160.42 (talk) 03:44, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Too many sections
Anyone has an idea on how to properly divide the article into sections? We can go with: – Howard  the   Duck  14:57, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Early career (include Barrera fight here since he was an unknown before the fight)
 * Pacquiao at featherweight (vs. Barrera and Marquez)
 * Morales trilogy (vs. Morales, Larios and Solis)
 * Rematches with Barrera and Marquez
 * WBC lightweight champion (vs. Diaz)
 * Pacquiao at Welterweight (De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto)
 * Future plans


 * I don't know about the breakdown but this article is way too long. At the very least play-by-play analyses of his fights could be made into another article or articles—it's like reading an article on a war where each battle is described in detail. 71.173.249.87 (talk) 18:23, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

IPs edit-warring
It seems to be semi is preferable to the pending revisions options in this case. If the problems continue, semi will be restored.  Enigma msg  05:58, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

POV
Realise that boxing fans are pretty fanatical at times, but you need to have some common sense with a lot of this.

The article was way too long, and has so much useless information that nobody really wants to read. You know, the fact that Pacquiao is PFP number 1, on the web site "about.com" is hardly relevant.

Plus, a lot of printing of rumour. Encyclopedias are supposed to cover what has happened. Not rumour about what might happen.

One thing I removed was a line like "Pacquiao was overheard saying blah blah blah" with the only source being some manilla fan site. You know, stuff like that is unsubstanciated, and doesn't belong on sites like this.

The problem is that 50% of boxing sites, are fan contribution. The articles are written by fans. Amateurs. With no real insight into what's going on.

I think it would be wise to only use information from established professional sports outlets. Like your ESPNs, your Ring Magazine, your Fox Sports and your Sports Illustrateds?

Cjmooney9 (talk) 10:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Cruft
THis page is 109 kilobytes long and half of it is extraneous detail and cruft. The blow by blow of contract negotiations and individual fights could go, for instance. Do we really need all this? If you like I will cut it down section by section with edit summaries at every stage. Britmax (talk) 09:01, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Endless Useless information
This page is suffering from fan obsession I feel. Encylopedic articles are supposed to be a general history of a person. They're supposed to be accesible, to the point, and easy to read, for newcomers.

The page is just flooded with endless, pointless information. As in there was a section displaying his endorsements?

Why do people continually add PFP rankings from totally obscure fan sites?

Why is there information on what magazine covers he's been on.

You know, I've been on enough boxing forums to know that Pacquiao fans are occasionally a tad obsessive about this sort of stuff, but this is an encylopedia page. Not a fan shrine.

It's way too long, and still contains huge amounts of useless information, even after taking some of the above out. If people insist on this stuff being here, then I suggest we take it to a higher level, and open it up to administrators/Editors for their view.

This should be a concise, easily readable, generalized re-telling of the guys career. Not a database of useless information

Cjmooney9 (talk) 17:24, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I have realised that there so much bias and un-important facts about pacquiao for instants he is recognised as pound for pound number 1 be about.com, espn.com, yahoo sports these sanctioning bodies are not important, (only Ring Magazine) people are turning this article like its a love fest for pacquiao and finally wiki isnt a up to date newspaper company. Jailbreaker212 (talk) 01:00, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * While Ring Magazine may be one of the more authoritative boxing-specific publications, ESPN and Sports Illustrated are two of the more authoritative general sports publishers. I can see pulling out some of about.com and the like, but I don't see a case excluding those two. —C.Fred (talk) 13:42, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know you, but the article smells like there are puppets. Tb hotch Ta lk C. 01:15, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This article is full of trivia and needs ruthless pruning. Britmax (talk) 09:19, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Pound
Can we PLEASE stop adding all that crap back to the lead - it is very messy to keep having them. What is your rationale for their explicit listing rather than a simple notation that other outlets rate him the same? --Errant Tmorton166(Talk) 19:44, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I have to agree with tmorton166 this article is full of crappy information, mostly inserted by tbhotch who is in love with Pacquiao. Jailbreaker212 (talk) 01:43, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Should I take this as a personal attack, becasue I am here for the pending changes, not for improve it OK. Also, could you decide to use only one account, because I have enough evidence about your sockpuppetering. Tb hotch Ta lk C. 02:03, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Introduction
The introduction to this article feels too long and full of unnecessary information. The second paragraph feels bloated, do we really need to list so many boxing websites? Can we instead just provide references for them so they don't clog the introduction?

I'm not sure if we need a whole paragraph describing all the titles Pacquiao used to hold. Could we instead provide that information in the rest of the article, with a possible link in the introduction to it? The fourth and fifth paragraphs feel excessive and just list more achievements he has earned that could be listed in an "Awards and Recognitions" part of the article.

I spent a few minutes editing the introduction myself, and came up with this:


 * Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao, also known as Manny Pacquiao, (born December 17, 1978) is a Filipino professional boxer and politician.


 * He is a Seven-Division World Champion, the first boxer in history to win nine world titles in seven different weight divisions, and the first boxer in history to win the lineal championship in four different weight classes.


 * Pacquiao holds a professional record of 51-3-2, with 38 wins coming by way of knockout. Currently, Pacquiao is the WBO World Welterweight Champion (Super Champion) and is rated as the number 1 pound-for-pound best boxer in the world by several sporting news and boxing websites, including The Ring.


 * Aside from being a boxer, Pacquiao has participated in acting, music recording, and politics. On May 10, 2010, Pacquiao was elected as Member of House of Representatives in the 15th Congress of the Philippines representing the province of Sarangani. He established the record of being the first active boxer to become a congressman in the Philippines.

It's not perfect by any means, but I think it's much easier on the eyes and easier to read without being overwhelmed by awards and recognitions. Courier00 (talk) 15:06, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I am 1000000000% in agreement with you :) (that looks great). I will support you adding it. There is one problem; any substantial changes get immediately reverted... I tried to condense the pound-for-pound details a day or so ago and it pretty quickly got changed back to a more "neutral version" *rolls eyes*. BTW the approach I took to all those boxing site links was to put them all into one reference and then stick a between each one. It means just one footnote tag (MUCH cleaner IMO). Here's an example of how I did it--Errant Tmorton166(Talk) 15:11, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually I edited your lead suggestion to add the breaks so you could see - hope that was ok? --Errant Tmorton166(Talk) 15:13, 20 August 2010 (UTC)


 * That looks great Errant, good idea on the reference change. :) Courier00 (talk) 15:20, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Format
The Format for this kind of page/article should be like the following: Info Box – includes the Name, Nicknames, Weights, Stats and Boxing Records (Total, W, W by KO, L, D)

Introduction – (1st Paragraph) Full Name, Alias, Birth date, Nationality, Profession/Career, Historical Achievements, (2nd) Pound for Pound Rankings - The Ring and other Sports Networks and Magazines, (3rd) Current Titles and Former Titles, (4th) Famous Boxing and Sports Awards like The Ring, BWAA, ESPY Fighter of the Year or Fighter of the Decade, (5th) Other Careers... ''Boxing Records should be posted on Info box if the boxer is still active. If the boxer will retire then it should be included in the introduction''

Personal Life – (1st Paragraph) Birth date, Birth place, Parents, Siblings, (2nd) Wife, Children, Residence, (3rd) Other personal background

Education – (1st) Primary, (2nd) High School, (3rd) College Degree, (4th)Honorary Degree, (5th) Short Courses

Amateur – Short Background, Records, Awards,

Professional – Short Background, then his Weight Divisions are subtopics. Under Weight Divisions, there should also subtopics like his first, second, third titles..., important issues, or the title of the matches.

Boxing Record (Table) – Result, Opponents, Type, In what Round, Date and place of match, and notes (which includes the issues or the titles on the line)

Titles in Boxing – Major, Minor, Lineal, Regional

If there are no comments, reactions, replies, feedbacks, and suggestions to this idea, I will edit this page/article and follow this format. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doughn (talk • contribs) 12:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the format should follow the manual of style for all articles. We already achieved consensus on cutting down that excessive lead - if you want to put it back you're going to need to get consensus here. I can't comment on your proposals for the rest of the article --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 13:00, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

doug read tmorton166 what his wrote before reverting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Balagonj786 (talk • contribs) 13:23, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

infobox pic
makes little sense to have a pic of him on a baseball field when he is famous in another sport. please change it to one of the other pics in the article. kthankxbye.-- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 19:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If you have a free image of him bxing is welocme. Tb hotch Ta lk C. 04:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * the other pics in the article should be exchanged with the one in the infobox.-- brew crewer  (yada, yada) 03:27, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Re-write a part of the Flyweight division section
The end of the Flyweight division section under Professional career ends in: "Technically, Pacquiao lost the belt at the scales, as he surpassed the weight limit of 112 pounds.". This seems to me more like an opinion than a statement of fact. I do not think that I can edit this document yet, because I'm rather new to this community. I was thinking that something like: "Pacquiao's opponent was x amount of pounds over the weight limit of 112" would make this article better. If no exact weight is known, this would be speculative and it would be better to remove the sentence altogether. -- Jorge [tito984] 21:59, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * From what I know, Pacquiao was overweight at the weigh-in, and was stripped off by the sanctioning body prior to the fight after a grace period in which they tried to make him lose weight (to the point of even shaving his hair). Then on the fight per se, he was made to wear heavier gloves; he later lost the fight. – HTD  ( ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens. ) 20:15, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I see what you're saying, but I think that you're referring to what happened in the Light Flyweight section: "Pacquiao failed to make the required weight, so he was forced to use heavier gloves than Torrecampo, thereby putting him at a disadvantage.[23]".


 * I sort of got it wrong to begin with where Pacquiao was the one over the weight limit and not his oponent, but I don't know if you'd agree with me on this that the sentence needs to be refined to fit with the tone of the article. It doesn't need to be removed, but re-written. The source says, and I quote: "He weighed a pound over the Flyweight limit thus losing the title on the scales. The fight went ahead and Pacquiao lost via third round stoppage to unbeaten Medgoen Singsurat. It was then after struggling mightlily to make 112 that Pacquiao and his brain trust decided enough was enough.". So what the article should say is something along the lines of: "Pacquiao failed to meet the required weight for the division by a pound over the limit of 112 and lost the title before the fight began.". Let me know what you think. -- Jorge [tito984] 20:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tito984 (talk • contribs)
 * After checking the boxing record section, that happened in the flyweight championship fight at Thailand. He was overweight at that time and was stripped. I do also vaguely remember he did not finish the fight (maybe he was knocked out). I dunno how many pounds he was overweight, I suggest leaving off "one pound overweight". Apparently on his 1st loss (probably junior flyweight) he also failed to make the weight I dunno the circumstances of that fight. – HTD  ( ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens. ) 05:48, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Recognitions

 * 2009 Ring Magazine Fighter of the Year> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_Magazine_fighters_of_the_year#2000s
 * 2009 Ring Magazine Knock Out of the Year Againts Hatton> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_Magazine_knockouts_of_the_year
 * 2009 ESPN Fighter of the Year > http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=4774025
 * 2009 Time Magazine Cover on time magazine Nov issue > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1935091,00.html
 * 2009 ESPN Knock Out Of The Year Againts Hatton > http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=4781887
 * 2009 Greatest Ever Ranked 2 among the all time greats of boxing > http://www.greatestever.com/
 * 2009 World's Greatest Ever Featherweight > http://www.greatestever.com/
 * 2009 HBO Fighter of the Year
 * 2009 HBO Fighter of the Decade > http://www.hbo.com/boxing/features/fighter_deacade/fighter_decade.html

Already updated PACMAN'S recognitions and if ever there will be more, I'll be glad to update it... and if there are any mistakes feel free to change it but all of my updates has link to justify everything...

PS... Inform us if there is any revision made...

Best Regards, Rico Sedano — Preceding comment added 09:39, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

IBO light welterweight
He voluntarily vacated the IBO light welterweight belt last January 15, to pursue the Clottey fight. IBO required that he defends that belt by the end of February. — Preceding unsigned comment added 00:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Website references
You should add http://www.mpboxing.com as a reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added 19:41, 2 December 2010 (UTC)