Talk:Manor House, London

Untitled
Cleaned up, but there must be more to say about poor old Manor House. Will add to this piece ASAP. Taking some more Finsbury Park pix soon, so will see what I can get round here. Bit of a challenge, really. Tarquin Binary 17:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Ah the old Manor House pub. I used to slug bottles of Newcastle Brown and bounce to the best Indie and Punk tunes in the club upstairs. Whatever happened to this wonederously dirthy place? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Motorcitymotorfamily (talk • contribs).

Developing the article
Hi, HughJLF. I'm glad someone with specific local knowledge is developing the article. The way I would go is to: slam straight in with where it is. That's the most important element in any location article. That naturally leads into the boundaries of the area. I'd then introduce why the area is named as it is, and why it has no formal boundaries - since, by extension it's become the area around the tube station. I still think of it as in Haringey, as that's where the tube station is, but Steve was right that it is virtually surrounded by districts of Hackney. One of the reasons for that is the geology, with a long spit of high ground (on which LB Hackney sits) leading into the heights of Finsbury Park, much of Haringey occupies the lower ground (except for the park itself). Discursive remarks tend to come after the substantive 'headlines'.

I thought I'd include the ref from BritHistory, but it seems I didn't, there's quite a good if lengthy treatment there - cutting it down would provide some background and history for the area. The Hackney side is dominated by the Woodberry Down Est and Rowley Gardens, both subject to current redevelopment, and there's both a modern and post-war history about that to be expanded. I'm a tad busy in real life at the moment, so I'll leave you to get on with it! Cheers Kbthompson 09:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yup it's strange isn't it. I imagine most of the station itself is under the park - which makes it Haringey. Oddly, three out of the four exits emerge on Hackney streets. Thanks for the useful suggestions on the article. I hadn't neccessarily planned to do the whole thing. I'll get the Harringay one done first. And, like you, time is at a premium. HughJLF 10:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Category:History of Haringey
Added because some of this area is just in Haringey and it's a useful addition to anyone browsing the category. HughJLF 09:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, previously I've got into arguments about my adding people and places to cat:history. Generally, it should only be articles on history. As a concession I was allowed to put 'former buildings of' into history. 8^) The categorisation scheme is not perfect. Kbthompson 09:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Estate vs Development
I note that Woodberry Down Estate was recently changed to Woodberry Down Development then quickly reverted. Given that it's as much private sector as it is social housing now, I wonder if some new terminology isn' needed, whatever that might be. HughJLF (talk) 15:38, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Whether it's social or private (and modernised) it's still the same entity, isn't it? If it was demolished and replaced wholesale with something else, you'd have to stop calling it 'the Woodberry Down Estate' as that would have ceased to exist. As long as the bulk of it is still physically there in the same form, I'd say it would be correct to continue calling it by the same name. Dubmill (talk) 16:28, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not a big deal. When I hear estate I think of either a council estate or an exclusive gated development outside London. This doesn't fit either bill any more. If you feel strongly about it, let's leave it for the time being and maybe review it in a few years.


 * I'm actually half-tempted to suggest renaming the whole article Woodberry Down. A name, I've been learning that has real roots and was used to describe the area even before housing was built from the mid-nineteenth century. I've never been totally convinced that Manor House is any more of a neighbourhood than Turnpike Lane - BUT, on the other hand, it does seem to have some currency. Thoughts? HughJLF (talk) 18:21, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * A down is a hill so I would think that, before the houses, Woodberry Down was the name for the geographical feature, i.e. the fairly prominent rolling hill. I've looked at the c.1860s map of the area and there appears to have been a residential development of large houses along the road called Woodberry Down (that road, of course, still exists). I would think it was laid out over previously open land and they just named the road after the hill it crosses. I suppose the road might have already existed as a track or rural lane, but again named after the hill. Have you seen a map of the area that is earlier than the c.1860s map available online?


 * I'm inclined to think that the importance of the tube station, as with Turnpike Lane, will strengthen the tendency of people to continue calling the locality Manor House. Of course, it is complicated by the fact that it straddles the border between different local authorites (and those local authorities are largely based on old boundaries, if slightly adjusted in places, so you don't normally get significant settlements that cross boundaries). But I think if you renamed the article 'Woodberry Down' not that many people would recognise that as an area of London. Some people who live locally may do but not others. Dubmill (talk) 08:26, 23 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The 1844 map excerpt towards the bottom of this page shows it. I'm sure you're right about the recognition factor. Tube and train stations hold such power as wayfinders that they end up calling the shots. I was amazed to find during the HoL street-based exercise on the Harringay name 100% of people asked "What area is this please" at the corner of Turnpike Lane and Green Lanes responded "Turnpike Lane. Not one said Wood Green.HughJLF (talk) 09:39, 23 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Sort of coincidentally, another conversation has started on HoL which led me to doing a bit more digging around, as a result of which some interesting findings have been unearthed which may even suggest that both names are good! HughJLF (talk) 11:45, 23 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Fascinating - then all of a sudden, we get this. HughJLF (talk) 12:14, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

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Location of Tube Station
There seems to be a bit of a dispute about which borough the tube station is located in. Personally, I don't get the importance of the issue and would quite happily omit any reference to this in the article. However, if folk insist on including it, let's agree the solution here rather than having an edit battle on the article itself.

The two options seem to be: A: It's in the borough of Haringey because TfL have decided that its postal address is in Haringey. B: It's in both Hackney & Haringey because its actual physical location spreads under the two boroughs.

Both are factually correct, but we have to agree what's most useful for the article.

My choices in this order would be: 1. Don't mention it at all 2. State that its located partly in Haringey and partly in Hackney 3. State that it's entrance is in Haringey

Over to you folks.

HughJLF (talk) 00:27, 6 May 2019 (UTC)