Talk:Marc Canter/Archives/2015

Untitled
This seems like a bunch of self-promotion that is not really appropriate for a wikipedia article.

"Broadband Mechanics has also helped Red Herring founder Tony Perkins design and build GoingOn Networks[10]. Broadband Mechanics is also working with Laszlo Systems[11]."

please have this PR crap removed ASAP or ban this page altogether

Marc has asserted in his own blog that he has re-written much (/all?) of the content of this page himself. I personally don't feel that writing one's own entry should be allowed, I also realise that is not Wikipedia policy. Never the less the content of this entry is both self-promoting and biased towards Mr Canter.

He also also said, in the above blog post, that he intends to use this post as a biog. Assuming that one would always wish one's biog to reflect positively upon them, this would imply that any updates that might appear detrimental or negative towards Mr Canter might be removed to maintain the suitability of the content as a biog.

I suggest a roll back towards the last non-MarcCanter update.

dude - if the facts are wrong - what am I supposed to do?
....Go ask somebody else to put the correct facts in?

I tried HARD not to bias or slant the changes I put in. In fact the opening line is NOT mine. FYI.

But it's important to get the facts right in this fastly changing world.

And I will continue to do that. As new products, services and standards are released. By me and my company.

-- Marc, while I trust you to do the right thing, I don't believe that the tone is right for Wikipedia. Take for example this sentence:

"Broadband Mechanics builds new kinds of tool and environments which enable everyday people to create and maintain new kinds of online communities."

The tone of that isn't neutral - it's very PR speak. Nothing wrong with that, in the right context - but in the context of Wikipedia it's a puff-piece rather than anything vaguely objective.

I'm not going to personally rewrite this, because I think you'll be keen to do it yourself (and, if truth be told, I don't have the time right now). But I'm sure it'll get sorted out. Ianbetteridge 12:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * "dude - if the facts are wrong - what am I suppsoed to do? ....Go ask somebody else to put the correct facts in?" Yes. Even if you are capable of editing your own bio in a neutral manner, you will find that the job of keeping a Wikipedia page "correct" is frustrating, time-consuming, and more than any person would ever want to take on singlehandedly. Camping on a Wikipedia page that people care about is no fun, because you're constantly dealing with vandalism, clumsy or infactual additions, and other hassles. So if people care about your bio page, you'll be taking up residence here to protect it. And if they don't, who cares what it says? Use your talk page to suggest corrections and trust that editors of your entry will consider them. Rcade 16:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

OK - yanked out all puffy marketing smarm
Based upon input from Robert Andresona nd Ian Betteridge - I've gone and pulled out much of teh BBM propoganda and kept the bio to me.

The fact that I am BBM - complicates things - but that's life. I myself - do the conuslting to those clients.

For teh record: - I did NOT author the opening line - so I've left it in. In fact I don;t even know who create dthois page in tehf irst place - But I will stand by my original inctincts - if the page is factual wrong - I have the right to correct it - as anyone else has. I am a person - too. - If there are any MORE complaints - please send them to me: marc [ at ] broadbandmechanics.com - and thank you for your concern. - now the question is: "will the anonymous complainer come forward and reveal his/her identity?" - BTW did you notice how I didn't mention all the mentoring and helping out and schmnoozing behind the scenes and efforts I put in to help change the world?

OK - so I am officially asking that the ugly tag on the top be removed
Unelss there's some other facts and bias one could argue about - I'm ready to debate.

I even shrunk down the photo - unless you're saying that photo isn't me. Or it makes me seem too attractive.


 * I think that tag is some kind of bait to lure Wikipedians to come in and sweep through your bio in an NPOV feeding frenzy. If you take it out yourself, they'll just be that much harder on your edits when they arrive. Rcade 18:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not really NPOV until this stuff is balanced with the account of Marc's career at Macromedia, and why that career ended, is it? Nick Douglas 15:45, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Spelling
It seems that "NAPLIPS" might be a misspelling of NAPLPS. The 'I' should be pronounced but not written.

Reputation Issues
Lets play a thought experiment. Lets say that business relationships break down between and individual and their cleints. The question that arises is should these be articulated on this page of Marc Canter's life history since this article so heavily highlights his business development aspects. As a social politeness we do not often talk about these things except face-to-face and do not want to bring them into public view on a site like wikipedia but as everyone on the web is a neighbor how do we now share information and invite better behavoir from neighbors.

Facts are what matter
If the client was a client and they listened and used the info I told them - then the world changed - then it's important to attribute that knowledge to teh source. That's why I'm asking that AOL, Cyworld and EMI get added as clients to my bio. But WOE BE IT FOR ME to do such a thing! But if soembody else wishes to extend truth into the realm of our clients - then they 'could'.

Added References
I have been following this page and Marc's comments on his blog for nearly a year now. I compared this page to a few other bio pages (Jimmy Wales, Nancy Pelosi, etc) and consider that with the references I have added today, along with toning down some of the hyperbole, that the NPOV tag should be removed.

In addition, I find the anonymous comment above about the breakdown of Canter's relationship with Macromedia to be petty, considering I found a current video of Marc on the Adobe (owner of Macromedia) web site. We demand cites and facts, but I didn't find any published mention of why Marc is no longer employed somewhere, so I don't see how that can be factored into NPOV. ShawnSwaner 18:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

After making my edits yesterday, I am coming back to remove the npov tag. I don't know Canter at all, other than reading his blog when someone I subscribe to mentions it or links to it. But this article now seems to have an appropriate level of neutrality, in my opinion. ShawnSwaner 15:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, Marc
We're all on a first name basis with Marc but the rest of the world isn't. I'm therefore changing to the last name throughout. That's a pet peeve of mine, usually having to do with a condescending tone of false familiarity adopted in articles about female cultural figures. But if we're going to use last name we should throughout. Also, I changed the format of many of the internal links to be Wikipedia-style (citations that prove the assertion made) rather than blog-style (in-line links to whatever relevant or useful information the author chooses to link to). Some of the material is still not that relevant or material. Canter is a large figure in the dot com world in more ways than one, and clearly deserves coverage here, but as an encyclopedia piece it should cover the entire arc of his life and career, with special emphasis to what makes him notable or interesting in the big picture, more so than his professional credentials or what he's working on at the moment. I've edited the article accordingly. I hope nobody minds. It's actually a greater tribute and bigger honor to have a solid Wikipedia article about you than an online resume or blog fame (which one can link to from here anyway)....

Marc Canter - the photographer
There is another Marc Canter, the rock photographer, who pictured Guns N' Roses, and now has just released the book "Endless Road" about them. How do I make another Marc Canter page? Thanks for help. Ronnie.!217.132.177.106 (talk) 23:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You sure it's not the same guy? This one is a gifted singer and interested in music.  Anyway, you would create a new article called Marc Canter (photographer).  I assume you're familiar with the article creation process but if not, please look at some of the links on writing articles in the "welcome to Wikipedia" message - if you don't have one yet on your IP's talk page look for someone who has one.  To avoid deletion try to make sure your article explains why he is notable and has at reference citation (and preferably more) to some reliable source that gives significant coverage to him and/or his body of work (e.g. a biographical article about him in Rolling Stone, a statement in the New York Times that he is a well-known photographer, etc).  I would also do a google search of Wikipedia to see if he is mentioned in any other articles and if necessary make internal links by changing the flat text to "  Marc Canter ".   Once your article is in place then edit this one to say something like this:
 * This article is about Mar Canter, the technologist. For the celebrity photographer see Marc Canter (photographer) (the double apostrophes and double brackets are markup language that get resolved).
 * If the photographer is as famous or more famous than this Marc Canter, or there are three or more we may have to move this one to Marc Canter (businessperson) and make Marc Canter a disambiguation page.  Hope that helps.  Wikidemo (talk) 00:39, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Request
I am new to Wikipedia and I am feeling my way around. Also, I have a COI here, as I have been friends of Marc Canter off and on for 30 years. We are not terribly close (I havent seen him for 15 years) but I know of his work and do admire the man. So my request here is that someone read this and, if they agree, make the simple edits to fix one issue that just slaps you in the face when you read this article. I have read a lot of biographies on Wikipedia and Marc's is the only one that finds it necessary to discuss what may or may not be his political beliefs and the unverified beliefs of his relatives in the summary paragraph. (At least I should say, the only biography of a technical personnage, maybe there are biographies of marxist revolutionaries that do so, but Marc is hardly that. Furthermore, this discussion of Marc's supposed politics and of the politics of his relatives is unverified ... if you look at the citations you will see that one is to Marc's blog (which should not count) and is no longer active, and the other is a semi-pornographic picture of Marc Canters head put on top of a so-called red diaper baby. I hardly think that this counts as verified, and at the very least is rude and in bad taste, if not actually libel.   So the simplest request I could make to improve this page is to remove any mention of Marc's relatives and his politics and delete these two non-citations.   Please contact me if you have any questions and I will check back to this talk page from time to time.    I have a lot to learn and I hope this is legitimate use of the talk page. Thank you. Michaelw newyork (talk) 02:05, 11 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi there ... dont know how long things take at Wikipedia. Is it ok for me to fix the canter politics thing, or should I continue to wait and let someone

else do it.... Thank you.... Michaelw newyork (talk) 19:59, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I've tidied up this section and moved it to the bottom. We do have a policy called WP:BLP that requires extra careful sourcing and neutral POV where living people are concerned, so this would qualify. Marc is certainly famous for having strong opinions and expressing them. If he is sourced as being a RDB, Marxist, radical, etc., and it's relevant to his life and career, then it's fair. But if it's not sourced, not relevant, or not significant, it's not fair material. I'm not sure whether being a social friend is a COI for WIkipedia purposes, and truth be told I've met him as well (I won't go into details as I don't want to out my RL identity). The reason this one is slow is probably that not a whole lot of people read this article, about 14-15 page views per day and only a very tiny fraction of Wikipedia readers are active editors and among those fewer yet will read the article talk page. I'm very busy recently but if I have a chance I'll take a look at this in the next several days.
 * Incidentally, in a pressing time-sensitive case you can look for a notice-board such as WP:BLP/N, a help desk, tea house, and other pages to request help, and if it's an emergency situation where it's a clear case most people wouldn't fault you for blanking out an offensive section, COI or no COI. There's also a ticketing system at WP:OTRS. But I think we can handle this one right here. - Wikidemon (talk) 20:17, 19 June 2014 (UTC)