Talk:March of the Living

Jewry vs. Jewish population
For some reason there has been a revert war for Jewry and Jewish population. If you think that Jewry is not a word you can check here. I am not pro any of the alternatives but please stop reverting just that simple word(s). Gadig 06:13, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Is this advertisement or encyclopedia article?
I don't want to sound bitter, but it seems the article does not even touches some important issues. Like the controversies with Polish Jew beaten in front of his synagogue by Israeli bodyguards; or criticism raised by quite a many organisations (that it teaches hatred). I don't want to even touch the article, but someone should address those issues. Szopen 08:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC) I support Szopen.Xx236 07:10, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * 
 * Xx236 07:10, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Controversies in Israel and Poland
The marches were controversial in Israel. Some say they don't fulfill their function, are too negative in scope and the youths treat them as occasion to drink and party. That was in Israel, in Poland the often arrogent stance of security teams was criticised as well as some incidents when students were making problems due to parties.--Molobo (talk) 22:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * These issues are raised in Israel regarding organized group visits to Poland by high school pupils, Jewish and non-Jewish. These visits take place at other times of the year and are not affiliated with the March of the Living, so anything added to this page would have to include a specific reference to the latter in a verifiable, published secondary source. -- Deborahjay (talk) 13:17, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

A departure from reality
An Israeli-made shows young Jewish visitors to Poland, who fly in from Israel to learn about the Holocaust. The children are being primed by security detail who assist them. They are lectured about what they don't see... and worked over to a point of absurdity. And so, the Polish customs officer looks just like an SS man (so they say for the camera); hapless old men on a park's bench are perceived as virulent antisemites apparently because they don't speak English (19:34 / 1:32:10). One asks: "Where are you from? Do say so, if you come from Israel." The girl translates: "He's talking badly about Israel. He said, we're bitches." Behind every corner lurks an assassin which makes the presence of Israeli security lifesaving (this is a series of claims from the agents).

The children repeat for the camera what they hear from their own guardians who don't speak Polish: "We're in danger. They could knock on our doors and throw things through our windows. At dinner they told us that. They briefed us that we're not in a friendly country. We are in a relatively hostile country. - Who said that? - The Secret Service guy. He's crazy! We're all eating and suddenly he says that he has something to tell us. Then he starts talking about Neo-Nazis. We were all shocked. We couldn't eat anymore..." Poeticbent talk 09:34, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The YouTube video has been taken down so there is no way to view it. It does seem to mention the March of the Living specifically, but I can't find any press coverage for some other sources.  At the very least I think the documentary should be mentioned in the entry, but do you have a source (other than the video) that specifically mentions the March of the Living?  --LibraryGurl (talk) 14:31, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * We already have an article in Wikipedia about this documentary, with external links to press coverage, and the official website. It is called Defamation (film). Unfortunately, the resources do not include the full transcripts (minute by minute).  Poeticbent  talk 15:53, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The YouTube video has been taken down due to copyrights. See how long the selection of clips will survive at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl7Rv5gldZE&list=PL5499CA3997F5617B
 * I assumed that by mentioning it here you were hoping to find a way to include it on the entry. I think it is worth noting in the article, especially because they looked specifically at people on the trip, rather than other, similar programs.  If you were just mentioning it, then no worries.  I know it has been nearly a year since you posted about it, I just started looking at the entry and talk page. --LibraryGurl (talk) 19:24, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I was hoping for someone like you to pick up on this thread eventually; thereby acknowledging that the documentary might deserve to be mentioned somehow. I was not sure however, what to do with it, in case its overall message turned out to be too controversial in tone in the opinion of others. Like you say: it is a video, not the usual written text easily attributable to a reliable third-party source. – Any ideas?  Poeticbent  talk  20:03, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I have been looking at the Birthright Israel entry for some general inspiration for this entry. My thought was creating a section about cultural impact.  This video would not perfectly fit under it, but it would get it added and other editors can suggest something.   It is worth considering a complete re-org of this entry.  I think it still reads like an advertisement.  This is part of the reason why I got interested in editing it. --LibraryGurl (talk) 20:54, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

New Organization Ideas
I have been reviewing entries related to other, similar trips, like the Birthright trips. I am proposing a change in organization to this entry:
 * History
 * Eligibility
 * Trip organizers
 * Itinerary
 * Security measures
 * Criticism
 * Social impact
 * Similar trips

Current content can fit under these catagories
 * 1) Commemoration of World War II death marches can fall under history and itinerary.
 * 2) Educational value can fit under eligibility and history
 * 3) March of the Living exhibit at the United Nations can fit under social impact
 * 4) Supplementary programs can go both under social impact and similar trips
 * 5) Cultural Impact will be expanded with subheadings related to the UN exhibit and media

Thoughts?--LibraryGurl (talk) 11:34, 20 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me. The programme is very well established, and I don't think, we would be doing it any harm by presenting a more balanced point of view which includes the voices of concern elaborated on in the new section "Criticism" (similar to the one featured at Birthright Israel). Also, the "Social impact" could be expanded with the actual relevant content of documentaries mentioned.  Poeticbent  talk 17:35, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I completely agree, but haven't seen the movie yet. I know you have a stronger idea of what the movie did include.  Would you be up for adding more about it?  I am trying to get a copy of both to watch. --LibraryGurl (talk) 14:07, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Let's see if you can get these documentaries first. Here is a link to a free download copy at archive.org, but I have no idea if the copy is legal and how long it will survive. https://archive.org/details/Defamation Good luck,  Poeticbent  talk 20:13, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Defamation Documentary
I am watching the documentary to help me edit some content here. It doesn't seem like the High School group are March of the Living participants. The organization is known for wearing bright blue jackets, but this group is wearing a white jacket with a blue Star of David on it. I can't find anything that indicates the Israeli participants wear a different jacket then the rest of the participants. Did I miss something? Is there a source that identifies the students are MotL participants? --LibraryGurl (talk) 22:24, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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I have just modified 2 external links on March of the Living. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080819192906/http://www.cse.edu/blog/index.php/2007/02/09/college-of-saint-elizabeth-student-promotes-prejudice-reduction-at-the-united-nations-annual-holocaust-day to http://www.cse.edu/blog/index.php/2007/02/09/college-of-saint-elizabeth-student-promotes-prejudice-reduction-at-the-united-nations-annual-holocaust-day/

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