Talk:Marci Bowers

Found a good Link(s)
http://www.albinocrow.com/articles/articles_frames.htm i dont know if its already there, but check it out, ill let you lot add it, im still learningMarci Bowers Helper 11:12, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Not a reliable, third-party source but I added it to external links. Ariel  ♥  Gold  17:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

oh and another, hehe http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20061008/ai_n16787862 Marci Bowers Helper 11:15, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll get this added in a few minutes. Already in the article - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Ariel  ♥  Gold  17:25, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Another: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2002967758_carnalknowledge03.html I will keep them coming. Marci Bowers Helper 11:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Already in article as a reference. Ariel  ♥  Gold  17:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

http://www.trinidadco.com/Articles/Born-Again.asp Marci Bowers Helper 11:18, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * This item isn't about Bowers, and doesn't give any information other than she is an OB/GYN, which is already sourced via multiple other refereces. Ariel  ♥  Gold  17:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The imdb site for 1 of Marcis tv shows: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0461110/ 86.7.77.18 17:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * IMDB is not a reliable source, and is already linked in external links section. No need to link to each show, just to the person. Ariel  ♥  Gold  17:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Well 1 of 4 aint bad, im going to try and add more content. Marci Bowers Helper 19:16, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Another about her sex change hospital program, its a offical website: http://www.channel4.com/more4/documentaries/doc-feature.jsp?id=145 Marci Bowers Helper 19:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Added to external links. Ariel  ♥  Gold  19:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

A general website with pics: http://www.pbase.com/photosbytrista/marcibowers Marci Bowers Helper 19:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Added to external links. Ariel  ♥  Gold  19:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

a cool pic slide show, shows her before transition: http://www.denverpost.com/ci_6262232 Marci Bowers Helper 20:28, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

References for these statements needed:

 * Bowers served as Ob/Gyn Department Chairperson at Swedish (Providence) Medical Center. ✅
 * Bowers is the only physician member of the Washington State midwifery Board. ✅
 * Bowers is listed among 'America's Best Physicians' ✅
 * Bowers is a member-elect of the European Academy of Sciences. ✅
 * Bowers has delivered over 2000 babies. ✅
 * Bowers has also been interviewed for a variety of magazines. ✅
 * All of these statements need sources, per WP:BLP and WP:V. None of this information was in the references that I read through, unless I just missed it. Ariel  ♥  Gold  21:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

heres a link for some of those: http://www.colostate-pueblo.edu/news/releases05/090.htm wow cant beleive i found that! Marci Bowers Helper 21:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Here's the link you need to help you add it as an inline citations Template:Cite web.  WebHamste r  21:20, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

its not in proper but its there, maybe a hardened user cann add it properly? thats hours of searching that is, im happy as larry! woop Marci Bowers Helper 21:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Help
Could some cite the statements with please? ive been told how to but still a newbie. Marci Bowers Helper 21:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)p.s: check the edit for the code Marci Bowers Helper 22:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That reference has already been added. Just one statement needs to be cited now:

Ariel ♥  Gold  22:31, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Bowers has also been interviewed for a variety of magazines.

Lets get some pics on the go.
i have one but need the licenses and stuff, how do i go about that? this page will be really good then... Marci Bowers Helper 22:10, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It kind of depends. Where did the picture come from?  Did you take it yourself?  If not, where did you get it? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:15, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Maricbowers.com, about me section, its not mine but a email to either marci or her webmistress will do? Marci Bowers Helper 22:17, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * See the image use policy, copyright policy, and images help for details on how to upload images, how to properly license them, and what can and cannot be uploaded per copyright policy. If the webmaster of her site will add a note below the image stating "Permission given to Wikimedia Foundation to use the image on Wikipedia" this should be sufficient, if they are willing to do that. Ariel  ♥  Gold  22:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

wow the whole page can be taken down if not done properly, note to self: do this poperly Marci Bowers Helper 22:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC) So ill email her webmistress, upload the image then let her add a caption? Marci Bowers Helper 22:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, no. What I mean is on her site, there should be a note placed giving permission for the specific image to be used on Wikipedia, then once that is done, let me know and I will take care of the uploading and licensing if you want. Ariel  ♥  Gold  22:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

ok ill email here asking to add that sentence if she can now.it may take a few days Marci Bowers Helper 22:27, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Splish Splosh
hes a old mate, not anymore, ignore him. he may has acees to my account Marci Bowers Helper 22:14, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

some cite help please
the first try at 19 part ive found a good new artical. http://nwi.com/articles/2007/03/05/features/lifestyles/docb14a70da1488819f862572910002fdc7.txt Marci Bowers Helper 19:11, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay I'll add that, but you need to realize that what you added is considered copyright violation. You added word for word, the first sentence of that article, and while sources can be used for information, they can't be copied. I'll need to remove that and I'll reword it in just a bit, promise! Let me just read the article through real quick. Ariel  ♥  Gold  19:16, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

sorry, your a great member i promise not to do that again, could you please send me a link to a citeing help page please? Marci Bowers Helper 19:21, 18 October 2007 (UTC) found it, so i put: around the url? Marci Bowers Helper 19:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It is fine, don't worry about it. There are a lot of things to learn here, and you're working very hard, and have nothing but the best of intentions, there is absolutely nothing to apologize for! I've added the info, as well as some additional information that article gives. Here are some pages that you can refer to: citation help, copyright policy, footnote guideline, and Citation templates. While some editors just stick a URL into ref tags, placing them into the templates makes it easier to read for a viewer, as well as provides consistency and additional information that a naked URL inside a ref tag cannot. I prefer templates in all situations, personally. Ariel  ♥  Gold  19:46, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Ive bookmarked the sites and will try to use them in the future, its easier without the threat of deletion, thanks again. Marci Bowers Helper 19:58, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

more research
http://www.seattleweekly.com/2007-10-17/news/shoulder-pads-pom-poms-and-the-angry-inch.php give it a while and ill see if i can site it myself! Marci Bowers Helper 21:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, while this article is mildly interesting, it really does not have anything to do with Bowers, and would only serve to cite that she's a surgeon operating out of Trinidad, which is already well-established by other sources. I don't think this is really needed for verification, personally. Ariel  ♥  Gold  21:45, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

well its says she waits intill their over 18, ive added it, but it aint appearing as a number and in the refrences bit. ive almost done it. Marci Bowers Helper 21:48, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Mybe i could start up a section on marci work on vegetarian work? http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/go/index.php/315/safe-vegetarian-pregnancy/ Marci Bowers Helper 21:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No cosmetic surgery is done under 18 without the consent of a parent, that's quite well known, and seems redundant to add to the article, it really doesn't add any context to her biography. I can reword it and fix the reference if you really want it in, but I don't see a need for it, personally. As for the vegetarian thing, I don't think that site would be considered a reliable source, and again, it really doesn't seem to add much context to the biography. Remember this is about Bowers, not about pregnancy or diet. Ariel  ♥  Gold  21:58, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

ok then, its starting to get hard to find stuff now, im stil waiting for a reply about that pic... Marci Bowers Helper 22:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I fixed the reference and reworded it, you had not added the closing tags ( }} ) and you had not added the tags at the front and end of the reference. Check WP:CIT again for the templates, you wanted "cite web". Ariel  ♥  Gold  22:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * What would i do without you? thanks again. ill check the code to see how to do it right, this is difficult! Marci Bowers Helper 22:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * ahh i see so what i had but with the ref tags around it. hopefully ill get to try again soon. Marci Bowers Helper 22:12, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it can be confusing, here let me see if this helps: When putting in a ref, you place it immediately after the period at the end of the sentence you're citing (no space between period and ref tag), now, just copy this, and fill in the blanks after the = signs:

"Last" is the author's last name, "First" is the author's first name. If no author is given, then see if it is written by the website it is on, or another source (see below for an example) "Date" is the date the article was written, whether that's today, or 40 years ago. Access date is the day you saw it online, using the format of Year-month-day, or 2007-10-20 The publisher is not always the name of the site, usually you should scroll to the bottom of the page, and see who is holding the copyright. For example, the Seattle Weekly article: the site is "Seattle Weekly", but if you go to the bottom it says: Copyright © 1998-2007 by Seattle Weekly Media. While this really is fine to put Seattle Weekly as publisher, sometimes the two are not the same, and you may need to do some clarification, like if it is a reproduction of an Associated Press article. For instance, if you see an article on CNN, and the article starts with (AP), then the publisher would be: CNN - Associated Press. Hope that helps some. (P.S. you can indent your comments by placing a colon right before your sentence, without a space)   Ariel  ♥  Gold  22:18, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * and theres me pressing tab,thanks for that i think wiki should rewrite its help pages to be more user friendly, but your a great help. Marci Bowers Helper 22:24, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hee hee, yep, it really helps when having conversations to use the indent with replies, so there is your "Wiki tip" of the day! :o) Ariel  ♥  Gold  22:26, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If you use space it gives you a weird box, well its late here, id better get some sleep, see you again later, for more correcting my mistakes, lol.Marci Bowers Helper 22:29, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's called a "preformat" box, and is helpful for things like examples of programming language, where line breaks and such need to be specified, or for some examples of math formulas, but the issue is that the words in the box don't wrap, so it can end up being a nightmare of horizontal scrolling, lol. Indents and spaces before any line are bad, generally speaking, hee hee. Ariel  ♥  Gold  22:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Well Done Everyone
Were now a B class page! YAY i am still waiting for a reply on the picture... heres hoping Marci Bowers Helper 18:57, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Gracias
theres a spanish version of marcis wiki yay! Thanks Marci Bowers Helper 19:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, 'grats! Ariel  ♥  Gold  19:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

resent email about pic
hopefully were get a reply this time. Marci Bowers Helper 16:29, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

took a while....
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06277/727117-51.stm ill read it and add any new info Marci Bowers Helper 20:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That reference is already in the article, and the info from it there as well. It is ref # 2 Ariel  ♥  Gold  20:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * back to the internet i go... thanks again Marci Bowers Helper 20:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

http://www.expmagazine.com/midatlantic/?p=73 marcis response to that church guy Marci Bowers Helper 22:27, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, is that an utter mess to try to read. Has that magazine never heard of paragraphs and spacing? lol. Yeah that's not in as a ref yet. I can format it into one if you want.  Ariel  ♥  Gold  22:37, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I know, lol could i add the info 'cos i havent edited in a whie (i'm getting rusty) but you add the ref tags? thanks Marci Bowers Helper 17:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Added the basic info and ref. Keep in mind that undue weight shouldn't be placed on any specific item, and this represents both sides equally. Feel free to re-word it if you like. Ariel  ♥  Gold  18:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

her tv series
its not a bbc documentry, she did have a show on bbc3 but the sex change hospital had nothing to do with the bbc. just a heads up ill get the facts and chnage it Marci Bowers Helper 18:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Moving the page
should we move it to: Dr. Marci L. Bowers MD

it would mean having to type that when searching, any thoughts? Marci Bowers Helper 18:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No. See WP:NAME. Article titles should be as simple as possible, and unless there is another Marci Bowers, there is no need to disambiguate the title. Dr. Is never used in an article title. The only time middle initials are used is when there are more than one person with the same name, and if there are more than one person with the same name and middle initial, then one could be named full middle name, or some other differentiating feature, like (politician) or (actor).

Magazine citetation
her media apperances page will do yeah? Marci Bowers Helper 18:37, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, not sure what you're asking? Ariel  ♥  Gold  18:48, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * the statement that shes done loads of interview for magazines. theres a page on her site which has the names of some magazines shes doneMarci Bowers Helper 20:25, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The subject's website isn't a reliable source. But you could use it to search for the interviews online, even a couple of them would be enough to validate the statement. Ariel  ♥  Gold  20:36, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * http://marcibowers.com/grs/TCFArticleAugust2003B.pdf its pdf format, most of them i have to pay for, beleive i would but i have no money! Marci Bowers Helper 20:43, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to go buy them, hee hee, I meant you could copy the title/author/publication, and search for them online. Ariel  ♥  Gold  20:50, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

http://www.westword.com/2004-07-22/news/the-doctor-is-out/ states she has been noted in a magazine Marci Bowers Helper 20:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC) http://www.marcibowers.com/documents/Pridesource%20Page%2010%2021July2005.pdf another one Marci Bowers Helper 21:02, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay .pdf should be avoided when possible. The other one I guess we can use to cite that passage.

can mp3's be used?
ive just download a radio show with marci on im listening now Marci Bowers Helper 20:48, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It is most likely copyrighted by another party (probably the radio station). Ariel  ♥  Gold  20:49, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Additionally WP doesn't support MP3, it would have to be converted to .ogg format.  WebHamste r  20:51, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * and edited, most of it is mindless banter lol, how do i convert it? if its good ill ask permission if i can Marci Bowers Helper 20:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's out of my area, I don't do anything with sound files, as I personally dislike them. lol. Ariel  ♥  Gold  21:07, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * One would need the appropriate codecs and software that would either transcode direct or via a wav conversion first. A freeware media player called Foobar2000 will transcode from one compressed format to another.  WebHamste r  21:54, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * that is over my head lol ill see what i can do Marci Bowers Helper 16:13, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sound files are usually used to illustrate things that text could not possibly do, such as a song clip, etc., so I personally think in this case, an interview is not going to add anything that can't be added to the article itself. :o) Ariel  ♥  Gold  17:17, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

some great personnal info here
http://gayintostraightamerica.com/index.php?page_id=12&newsletter_id=75 mainly this paragrapgh After surgery, we went to dinner with Marci and her partner, Carol. We also met Marci’s son, Tom. What a great job Marci has done in parenting him. He is polite and friendly. Only 10 years old, he made sure we had a nice CD to listen to as they showed us to our bedroom in their home. The next morning, he offered us breakfast that Marci had laid out before leaving for a hair appointment. When we left, he said it was nice to have met us. Marci Bowers Helper 21:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, while that's cute, it doesn't add anything to the context of the article, other than one of her children's names. I sort of think that if you cannot give the names of all the children, you should give no names (personal opinion, of course). Ariel  ♥  Gold  20:22, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * yeah ill wait untill i know all their names, i tried to add it, i put all the right tags in but in the refs it said "no text" Marci Bowers Helper 20:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

already a source i think?
http://www.ifge.org/Article241.phtml details her kids names and ages

I have three children. Thomas is 7, Julia, 11, and Andrea, 12. My spouse and I (Yes! Two legally married women!) get along very well, more like sisters though. Most important of all, though, she always maintained her respect for me and never turned my children against me. For now, Thomas is living with me here in Trinidad with my partner, Zach, while the other two are with their mother in Seattle. Marci Bowers Helper 21:44, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

A Picture
Could anyone manage to get a pic of Marci? its been a while since i emailed and didnt get a reply. Marci Bowers Helper 17:32, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I have several photos of Doctor Bowers but I am not sure if she would be okay with them being released. So at this point, I will not do this. As far as her birthday, I know not all people like this information published for the sake of hiding age...but Washington State Voters Reg Records listher birthdate as Jan 18th 1958. This is a public data base free for anyone to look up if they desire and have the know how and I can give out the link if specifically asked for it.


 * I recently uploaded pic of Dr. Bowers and still looking for one that can be used on Wikipedia. Unfortunately, it was subsequently deleted due to problems. Just thought I'd let you know. Aeverine Frathleen Nieves (talk) 05:28, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120704080141/http://marcibowers.com:80/grs/moving.html to http://marcibowers.com/grs/moving.html
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External links modified
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Economist article
The Economist article removed in this edit is not an opinion article. It merely has the word "opinion" as the first word of its title, but it is reporting on opinion changing. It is thus a standard mainstream-news RS. Crossroads -talk- 03:50, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Substack
@Sideswipe9th I would agree that substack is not usually a place to cite. However, if the interview is being mentioned at all — which it was, even before I got here — how is better to not cite the thing being discussed? Eievie (talk) 04:24, 15 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Shortly after the interview, Bowers made commentary on social media that Shrier had misquoted and taken some of what she had said out of context. Unfortunately that commentary has since been deleted, as Bowers cleared her social media history about a six months ago or so. As neither Shrier nor Weiss are reliable sources, I don't see a strong reason to cite Weiss' Substack, especially when the NY Times Magazine article already covers the relevant points. Sideswipe9th (talk) 04:40, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * If journalists publishing outside standard news outlets is not good enough of a citation, then surely a deleted social media post would also not be good enough? If it were only a matter of "big news outlets only," that'd be one thing. But to refute one small and self-published thing with something else that's also small and self-published... I'm just confused by that. Eievie (talk) 05:34, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

There is a lack of information
For instance, says that Marci Bowers at 19 intended to begin gender transition. Did that ever go ahead? It never says if Marci Bowers was born a female or male, for instance, so it is difficult to know. 31.211.201.66 (talk) 06:03, 11 July 2024 (UTC)