Talk:Marcin Kromer

Marcin or Martin?
If Martin Kromer is the standard English name, rather than a name imported into "English" by Polish speakers, why don't we move the page. As it is, it's difficult to go around piping links to Marcin Kromer with Martin Kromer when Marcin Kromer is the wiki page title. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 18:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * 18 books use Marcin, 24 books use Martin. The difference is rather too small to be conclusive.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:31, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm rather swayed by the fact Norman Davies uses Marcin, as he has done a lot of work of German-Polish ethnic differences. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 21:34, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * In both the portrait and the book title, he is called Martin Cromer (actually, in Latin, "Martini Cromeri", Genitive case, meaning "... of Martinus Cromerus"). Is there any evidence for other spellings? --Matthead 10:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

His name is Marcin Kromer, not the germanisation to Martin. As shown above there isn't enough difference to rename him. --Molobo 10:58, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Matthead, I wonder why don't you propose to move the article on English monarchs to their Latin names - or German monarchs for that matter. After all they also signed their names in Latin. And how about moving John Calvin to Ioannes Calvinus, Ulrich Zwingli to Ulricus Zuinglius, Martin Luther to Martinus Luder, and so on?  // Halibutt 14:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I rest my case: there are no contemporary sources for the Polish spelling. QED. As all too often, a modern Polish name is applied in hindsight, not only for people related with Poland, but even for pl:Marcin Luter (thanks for reminding, Halibutt, and it's la:Martinus Lutherus), and for many other persons, cities etc. En-Wiki does use the Latin Nicolaus Copernicus, not Nikolaus Koppernigk (BTW, any sources for the claimed Mikolaj Kopernik surfaced yet? No?). En-Wiki also uses Huldrych Zwingli for Ulrich Zwingli, and John Calvin for Jean Chauvin. Yet, instead of the sourced (and quite often used) Martinus Cromerus, or the proper English Martin Cromer, En-Wiki once again obediently echoes a Polish POV. Needs to be fixed asap.

As for Norman Davies: "Some colleagues have accused Davies of a "Polonophile" attitude ... Davies holds a number of honorary titles and memberships, including honorary doctorates from the universities of Lublin and Gdańsk, memberships in the Polish Academy of Learning (PAU) ... Davies is also an honorary citizen of Lublin and Kraków. In 2005, he was granted the Order of Saint Stanislaus in Poland." So Poles (unlike other nations, except his own) are seemingly pleased with his work - yet he uses "Martin Kromer" at least twice in God's Playground, "Marcin Kromer" only once. More Google Book counting reveals that not only "Martin" doubles "Marcin", but that "Martin Cromer" prevails if English language is enforced: Piotrus had created the article under the Polish name, and did not amend since. Time to move on, to "Martin Cromer" - or do we get the default "Try WP:RM"? -- Matthead discuß!    O       05:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "Marcin Kromer" +bishop 44
 * "Martin Kromer" +bishop 40
 * "Martin Cromer" +bishop 55
 * "Martinus Cromerus" 192
 * If you want, try RM.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 07:01, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Updated counts: So we either use the Latin or the Polish spelling.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 13:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * "Marcin Kromer" +bishop 113
 * "Martin Kromer" +bishop 94
 * "Martin Cromer" +bishop 86
 * "Martinus Cromerus" 324

As noted above by Halibutt Latin spelling is not used as the primary naming one on Wikipedia.--Molobo (talk) 13:28, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Can we agree to move this to Martin Kromer, retaining the modern Polish K? Marcin, when most sources use Martin, is confusing. Please also note that Martin Kromer (82 distinct) is English, "Marcin Kromer" (74 distinct) takes some Polonophone hits and "Martin Cromer" (86 distinct), presumably, some Germanophone. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 19:48, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No, I don't agree as Martin is a Germanised version of Marcin and it would confuse readers. Either Marcin Kromer or Martinus Cromerus. Also 82 versus 86 means there is on preferable Germanised version, considering the overwhelming dominance of German historgraphy in XIX century versus Polish one.--Molobo (talk) 21:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Martin is the English name, the Latin name from which it is derived (minus the grammatical ending) and the Polish name as it was back then. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 23:05, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * We don't translate all the names into their modern English equivalents. Or would you like Bill Sheakspire? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:25, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't understand what point you are making ... Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 23:30, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Twice the same book ?
Under Works, In Latin, we have :


 * Martini Cromeri De origine et rebvs gestis Polonorvm libri XXX. Adiecta est in fine, eiusdem autoris funebris Oratio Sigismvndi regis uitam compendiose complexa, 1555,
 * Martini Cromeri Varmiensis Episcopi Polonia: siue de origine et rebus gestis Polonorum libri XXX of 1555 (About origins and history of Poles in thirty books) in Latin, (Polish translation ''O sprawach, dziejach i wszystkich innych potocznościach

Isn't it twice the same book ? 2A02:A03F:6465:D800:44A3:D8DB:45D:F68B (talk) 09:46, 3 February 2024 (UTC)