Talk:Marco Polo (game)/Archive 1

Bogus(?) Historical note
I deleted this paragraph, it looked like vandalism:


 * The historical significance of this game relates back to a time when Marco Polo (age 17) was travelling to China with his father and uncle on their way to see the Great Kublai Khan. Marco was very tired and he fell asleep on his horse. His horse must have sensed this and slowed down dropping back from the caravan. When Marco Polo awoke he did not see his family. He began to hear voices in the desert thinking it was the caravan calling for him. He was later found it was not his family calling: he was hallucinating.

Jorge Stolfi 21:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

That's partially true, though most of it is not.

Marco Polo was an explorer from china and the game gets its name was him...

^^Marco Polo? From China? Seriously? He was Venetian. He DID travel to China, and was accepted into Kublai Khans court. The Khan even had Marco deliver a letter to the Pope requesting 100 Christian scholars trained in the "Seven Arts" (grammar, rhetoric, logic, geometry, arithmetic, music and astronomy) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.17.211.220 (talk) 20:11, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * That doesn't look like vandalism to me. What do you think vandalism is? It may or may not be correct, but it looks like a good faith edit to me. I came here looking for just such a historical note. How does the game relate to the person???? 24.254.87.52 05:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

See information under The Explorer on this page for information on how the game relates to the person.

Grichard56 13:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Quote (under Origins): " . . . due to vague lexicographic similarities, it is possible it may derive from the name of explorer Marco Polo." This must be an understated joke that someone got past the snooty encyclopedic rules! "Vague lexicographic similarities". . . it's the same words! WHPratt (talk) 14:19, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

With no factual basis for the connection, the monk 100 Eyes would make for an outstanding contender as the creator of this game. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.99.214.163 (talk • contribs)

Relation to Sharks and Minnows
I just created an article for Sharks and Minnows, but as far as I have always known the rules of play of that game, I don't see any similarity to Marco Polo. Can someone please enlighten to this? --Freedomlives 21:38, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Speedo Torpedo
Near to none of the rules are referenced and yet you delete this one? Just because it seems like vandalism does not necessarily make it so. Unless you grew up in the mid-west, please do not judge my helpful edits. I put it back up, I will try to find a source.


 * I played this game with my cousins many a summer growing up in Fort Wayne. I can assure you it's real, and yet, in retrospect, somewhat embarrassing (hence the anonymity of this post). 88.224.70.169 10:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

How is the Game Played?
The game is played by three or more people. At any time there is one distinguished player, "It", who must usually wait a certain number of seconds before swimming around the pool with his or her eyes closed, attempting to tag the other players. The "It" player can only sense where the other players are by sound, but may call out "Marco!", at which point all the other players are required to yell "Polo!". When the "It" player succeeds in tagging another player, the latter becomes "It". NOTE: If you are underwater you cannot hear the call "Marco" and therefore will not respond with "Polo". If you are good at holding your breath underwater, you are less likely to be tagged "It".

There are a few common minor variations. Fish-out-of-water allows the non-It players to get out of the pool (thus protecting themselves from being tagged by the water-bound "It"), however, should "It" call "fish out of water" while some one is out of the pool, that person becomes "It". If there is more than one person out of the water, the person who is "It" has the choice of picking anyone out of water to become "It". If "It" should call fish-out-of-water when nobody is out of the pool, "It" must redo the beforehand count. "Mermaid on rocks" is a variant itself of fish-out-of-water. This is when a person is sitting on the ledge of the pool with their legs in but their body is out. When the "it" person calls mermaid on rocks, and someone is doing this, they are it. Note: Citation needed|reason=reliable source needed for mermaid on the rocks rules|date=August 2011 not needed - common knowledge. Grichard56 Alligator Eyes allows "It" to call out "alligator eyes" or "submarine" and then swim underwater with eyes open for one breath. Usually, "It" is limited to one use of alligator eyes. Other variations on this rule allow "It" to look around underwater but not to move until he or she is above water with eyes closed once again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grichard56 (talk • contribs) 15:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Age Range?
I've never played this game before, but I don't seem to get why someone put an age limit on it. I understand that it can't be played by kids under 4, but not by people over the age of 18? Us adults do play kiddy games sometimes ;)

Tommyhaych 08:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I first saw this game this summer in California, and it was played by both many kids and a few adults.

Kdammers 01:08, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The Explorer
WHAT DOES MARCO POLO HAVE TO DO WITH THE GAME MARCO POLO? The above was placed on the article page, unsigned, on 30 Sep 2006 (GMT). Avalon 20:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps telling the origin of the game will clear this up. The name of the game is not directly related to the explorer.

In the early 1960's my family lived in northern Indiana.I had a younger brother named Steve. When he was little his eyes looked oriental and his skin tone looked Asian. One of the neighbors that lived behind us affectionately called him Chinese Boy. Later another brother, Mark, received the nickname Marco Polo from this same neighbor. Probably in keeping with the Asian theme.

The game of Marco Polo did not initially start out as Marco Polo. It started out as a game of blind man tag in our backyard pool. The calling of "Marco" and "Polo" evolved out of the times Mark (Marco) was it.

The game was initially played as it is played today. However, as we got older the game evolved slightly with "new" rules. Such as not having to be in the pool as long as an arm or leg was still in, or even later when you could be totally out of the water as long as you were within reach of the pool. Nobody ever cheated or peeked. From what I have read, these variations also pickup new game names even though the game is basically the same game.

I have had people question this claim to the origin of the game of Marco Polo. I do not know how I can prove this other than I was there. I would be very surprised if you can find any mention of the game in any media prior to the early 1960's.

Grichard56 13:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

As it turns out the game as I know it got it's name from a boat build in 1957 in Newport Beach, California in the United States. It was about 30 years later that my family and I were sailing abord the ketch Marco Polo in Baja Califonia that we met the orignal owners son. He claimed he and his friends created the game at the Newport Beach and Tennis Club in the early 60's. They were looking for a word to use and the name of the name of his father's boat the Marco Polo was used for this game of blind mans bluff.

The Newporters themselves were built by Ackerman Boats in an around the late 50s to early 60s. A total of about 120 were built. A number were sold to Hollywood movie stars, who used the boats to sail to Catalinia Island and a number of the other off shore islands off the California coast.

Sikedward (talk) 01:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

The game was invented by James J. Kiernan, a 9 year-old boy in Howard Beach, Queens, New York, in his 3-foot-deep backyard swimming pool. In the summer of 1957, James was playing with a ball with his brother and a friend. His father, James J. Kiernan, Sr., came outside and they started a game of catch between the father, outside the pool, and the kids, swimming in the pool. James Sr. asked the children, "Why don't you play polo with the ball?" James Jr., not knowing what the game of water polo was, assumed that his father was referencing Marco Polo. James Jr. happened to have studied Marco Polo in school that past school year and asked his father, "You mean Marco Polo?" His father, always sarcastic, responded, "Yeah, Marco Polo."

James, Jr. and his friends then began to jump around the pool shouting "Marco!" "Polo!" until James, Jr. decided to close his eyes and yell out, "Marco," while feeling his way through the water and trying to find his friends who were shouting, "Polo."

During the summer of 1957 and onward, the children of Howard Beach would play Marco Polo in the neighborhood pools and at Rockaway Beach where the game spread quickly among other New York City children.

I believe that I invented the game in the early 60's at Fort Washington Swim club, a suburb of Philadelphia. At the time I was 12, and my younger brother (age 10) was recovering from a benign brain tumor. While not fatal, this tumor did compress the optic nerve, causing Marc to become nearly (and legally) blind.

We were playing water tag at the swim club, and Marc couldn't play with us since he couldn't find us. I would call out his name and not move until he was close enough to lunge. He would repeat my name (Paul) to indicate that he hadn't yet located me. After a while, the other kids playing tag got the idea of how we were helping Marc, and the formal rule that "it" had to shut his/her eyes was born (in order to make life fair)

as a former boy scout, this is the truth

Paul

The origin of the game of Marco Polo cannot be verified. However, it is believed that the game traces the orgins of its name back to famous explorer Marco Polo. The legend is that when arriving on new lands he would cry out, "Marco," and if the indigenous peoples answered back with, "Polo," he then knew they were friendly.

Entry I found on Article page and needs a citation. --Grichard56 (talk) 11:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

The game orinated in England in the mid 1700's. As the game gained in popularity it spread throughout the British Empire including the American Colonies, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Canada, the Virgin Islands, Australia, New Zealand, India, Saudi Arabia, and other British nations.

Entry I found on Article page and needs a citation.--Grichard56 (talk) 17:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

The game is believed to be based upon the expeditions of Marco Polo the explorer to Asia and China. In his 1291 voyage over sea from Quanzhou to Venice, his fleet was beset by thick fog. In order to keep the various ships together, the first boat would shout "Marco", and the boat behind would shout "Polo". Then that boat would continue with "Marco" and the third boat behind would reply "Polo". This would continue until the last ship is reached, where it would start again, only in reverse from the rear. The story has made its rounds in common history and lore, and eventually turned into a child's game, typically played in a pool with eyes closed.

Entry I found on Article page and needs a citation.--Grichard56

Reception
The game has been criticized for being loud and annoying to poolgoers and neighbors. --Grichard56 (talk) 21:54, 30 October 2008 (UTC) moved from article page to discussion page as silly reference.
 * Sorry, this got lost on my watchlist. As the presence of the sources indicate, the noise factor is very important toward understanding the attitudes of observers toward the game.  My claim seems to be well-referenced and encyclopedic, so I think it belongs in the article.  RJaguar3 |  u  |  t  18:44, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Australia?
For what its worth I had never heard of this game in Australia until I saw it in a Simpsons episode. Are we sure it's popular in Australia? Avalon 13:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have never heard of it until I saw it in a Sopranos episode and nobody I know or have spoken too has heard of it. I'm certain there are other pool games here in Australia but nothing like this. SM247 My Talk  22:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm Australian and can remember playing Marco Polo with my friends in pools when we were kids. We playing it whenever we had the chance. (Through I've never heard of the "mermaid-on-the-rocks" or being able to look uderwater rules.)

It is quite popular in New Zealand, but we usually play it blindfolded (like a version of Blind Man's Bluff) and on the ground. I hadn't heard of the pool version before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.153.44.14 (talk) 07:11, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm Australian, and it's played quite frequently here. Our version lacks the "alligator eyes" underwater rule, but features the other rules. Although I personally often replace "marco/polo" with the lyrics of "Never Gonna Give You Up", that bit's probably not exactly notable... MeTheGameMakingGuy (talk) 08:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Brazil
I never ever heard of this game until now. I occasionally saw references in American TV shows (just the "Marco-Polo" shouting, not directly associated to pools) and that's it. I don't believe it's popular in Brazil (if it's played at all). You'd be hard pressed to find someone here who actually knows who Marco Polo was, as he's rarely mentioned in school books. So it's possible someone plays a game like this in Brazil (although not to my knowledge), but with another name. People certainly don't say "Marco Polo" often here.

(My apologies for any broken English.)

189.114.194.233 (talk) 04:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Article needs immediate attention
I'm concerned that a number of intentional inaccuracies have accumulated in this article. Specifically I have my suspicions about the following sections:

The game is popular in Switzerland, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Singapore, and Iran.

For Asian countries, or more specifically, Singapore, in the case where the entirety of the name "Markopolo" is called out, the immediate word following it, should be that of "TAN" (pronounced "t-ah-n" and not as in 'sun tan'). This may be used to test the reflexes of a specific person, and to assess the intellectual capacity of the said individual.

A superficial variation of this game demonstrates to students how whales, dolphins and bats navigate by echolocation.

Disc game

An unrelated game called "Marco Polo" is played with a flying disc or Frisbee. Players form a circle and throw a disc to each other. A player must jump before catching the disc and land only after releasing it. Whenever a player fails to do so, he or she is "out"--the winners are the last two players to remain in the circle.

I've changed the wikiproject swimming template to show that this article needs attention by editors who know what they are talking about. Centrepull (talk) 14:01, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

How can this article be returned to previous state
The article has been hacked and messed up so many times that it is impossible for me to fix. The last date that looks anywhere near correct appears to be... http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marco_Polo_(game)&oldid=264075557 --Grichard56 (talk) 22:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

How can this article be returned to previous state? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Marco_Polo_(game)" --Grichard56 (talk) 16:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Why on earth would we want to return it to a version full of original research and lacking proper sources? The page wasn't "hacked and messed up"; I edited it to get rid of all the unsourced waffle and to add sources. If you want to expand it, find some reliable sources that discuss the game. Fences  &amp;  Windows  23:13, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Because I am trying to keep the article clean of references and unsupported claims of origin. --Grichard56 (talk) 15:22, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Content and sources
Grichard56 is not happy with the changes I made at the start of December and wishes to remove the sources I added to this previously unsourced article. Can we please discuss why you wish to revert to the prior version and remove the references? You state that they are "non-factual", but this imposes your own opinion onto the sources, which is really original research. You also want pre-1975 sources, but if no good sources are available they cannot be used. Besides, the use of more recent sources about this game is not mutually exclusive to using earlier sources. Bottom line: we work from sources, not our own opinions and knowledge of subjects, and Grichard65 does not own this article. Reverting without further discussion is edit warring and could result in a block. Fences &amp;  Windows  10:50, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Fences, why are you so interested in this article? I have been trying to keep it very lean and clean of mis-information for a very long time. Since the game was created and played in my backyard, and there is no way to document other than I have first hand knowledge, my option is to try and keep garbage off the article. All claims of origin have been moved to the Discussion page.

I could accept the version posted as 03:57, 20 January 2010, if the reference #1 were removed. The name of the game is only referenced 2nd hand to the explorer. It was not name after the explorer. --Grichard56 (talk) 15:28, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Fences and Windows, I do not understand how the game can be named after Marco Polo the Explorer when the origin of the game is in dispute. Find a documented source of an origin prior to my knowledge of the game's origin of pre-1970 and I will relent. Otherwise, please do not include references that are assumption rather than fact. --Grichard56 (talk) 21:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Bogus(?) Historical note
I deleted this paragraph, it looked like vandalism:


 * The historical significance of this game relates back to a time when Marco Polo (age 17) was travelling to China with his father and uncle on their way to see the Great Kublai Khan. Marco was very tired and he fell asleep on his horse. His horse must have sensed this and slowed down dropping back from the caravan. When Marco Polo awoke he did not see his family. He began to hear voices in the desert thinking it was the caravan calling for him. He was later found it was not his family calling: he was hallucinating.

Jorge Stolfi 21:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

That's partially true, though most of it is not.

Marco Polo was an explorer from china and the game gets its name was him...

^^Marco Polo? From China? Seriously? He was Venetian. He DID travel to China, and was accepted into Kublai Khans court. The Khan even had Marco deliver a letter to the Pope requesting 100 Christian scholars trained in the "Seven Arts" (grammar, rhetoric, logic, geometry, arithmetic, music and astronomy) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.17.211.220 (talk) 20:11, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * That doesn't look like vandalism to me. What do you think vandalism is? It may or may not be correct, but it looks like a good faith edit to me. I came here looking for just such a historical note. How does the game relate to the person???? 24.254.87.52 05:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

See information under The Explorer on this page for information on how the game relates to the person.

Grichard56 13:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Quote (under Origins): " . . . due to vague lexicographic similarities, it is possible it may derive from the name of explorer Marco Polo." This must be an understated joke that someone got past the snooty encyclopedic rules! "Vague lexicographic similarities". . . it's the same words! WHPratt (talk) 14:19, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

With no factual basis for the connection, the monk 100 Eyes would make for an outstanding contender as the creator of this game. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.99.214.163 (talk • contribs)

Bats/moths
I have deleted the following paragraph as I live in the U.K and have never come across the game of Bats/moths. I saw marco/polo being shouted in the swimming pools of the characters in seperate episodes of The Simpsons and Family Guy and had no idea what they were doing.

 similar game to be found in some regions of the UK is "Bat/Moth". This can be played in swimming pools or on land, as a large group, with three or four contestants making the bats and moths, with the remainder forming a circle barrier to prevent leaving the game. The game is not widely played. In fact, this may not be played anywhere at all.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo_%28game%29"  Furthermore, the last sentence of this paragraph in my opinion suffers from sloppy editing, and makes the entire thing useless

Although "Bat/Moth" may exist (Though I've never heard of it and I'm from England) it is not the same as Marco Polo, which is pretty comon in Egland MJN SEIFER

please delete the UK information from the page
im also born and bred in london and still live in the uk, and now i have read this page, i remember seeing many programs with this being shown. ive never known marco popo being played in any pool. and when ive seen it on the tv ive never understood what they were doing until now. ive asked people younger and older about this and they dont know anything about this game. im removing the uk information because its wrong.

I have Played this as a child, and I have lived in England all my life. ( 161.51.11.2 )

Maybe It depends what part of England your from? Because where I'm from it was a very comon game to play, and I have asked people and they played it.


 * I have lived in Scotland all my life, and I hit fifty this year. I have only ever known it from USAican tv shows. (This is why I am on Wikipedia now)2.101.150.76 (talk) Lancetyrell — Preceding undated comment added 17:11, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps chaning "UK" to "Parts of England" or something similar would work MJN SEIFER 18:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

A lot less people in UK have their own swimming pools and this is not that easy in public swimming pools. Therfore I hadn't heard of it unti saw it on American import TV. (Jon, London UK) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.164.132.240 (talk) 14:28, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm from the North East of England and I've never heard of it (except on American cartoons). MathiasFox (talk) 09:08, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Only one person has alluded to playing this in the UK. I'm sure you could say the odd person from every country throughout the world has played this game, but on the whole this is not a game familiar to the United Kingdom or Europe. Thus this information should be erased as it is not a game familiar to the majority. Rob Riot UK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.11.155.212 (talk) 22:10, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

In popular culture
I personally had never heard of the game until it appeared on the Monk programme. It was also referenced on 30 Rock, plus other shows noted above. Varlaam (talk) 23:16, 25 January 2012 (UTC)