Talk:Marco Polo sheep

About its endanger and rescue

 * Xinhua, about the increase of the sheeps in China 2006]
 * NAG, decrease in Afghanistan]
 * New straits times, Sheep in Pakistan and its connection with Marco Polo]
 * NPR, Interview with George Schaller
 * Times Dispatch June 22, 2009 Afghanistan protects the sheeps
 * Discover George Schaller grand plan to rescue the species
 * Ohmynews

Description and habitats
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Diaa abdelmoneim (talk • contribs) 08:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Journal of Mammalogy very descriptive info on mps horns Burningview (talk) 19:19, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Wildlife of Pakistan SILVER: Description, Biology, Reproduction, Social Behaviour, Diet, Habitat and Distribution (Reliable source ?)
 * Wild sheep and goats and their relatives (Preview book) GOLD: More info than the one before and a Reliable source

Todo
The current references are mostly inaccessible except for the National Geographic one which needs a proper citation template.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 08:34, 16 July 2009 (UTC) Expansion of the content is easy and possible: ✅
 * References
 * "Polo, Marco and Rustichello of Pisa. The Travels of Marco Polo, Vol. 1. Ed. Henry Yule (1903), and Henry Cordier (1920). Gutenberg Project, 2004." should be replaced with an up to date reference
 * URL accessed March 16, 2006 is inaccessible
 * http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060916/sc_afp/indiaenvironment is inaccessible
 * Structure
 * History -
 * What was Marco Polo doing when he discovered this breed?
 * When?
 * What happened after that?
 * Characteristics ( size, horns , fell)
 * Range and habitat (distribution, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan...?)
 * Biology and behavior (Subsections: Diet, Reproduction)
 * Threats (Hunters, predators)
 * Conservation (Advances in conservations in the regions) (News sources ^ )
 * Media
 * Image of the Sheep (Flickr)
 * Distribution
 * SVG drawing of the sheep
 * Templates
 * ✅ The domestic sheep template is not related to this article and should be removed
 * ✅ A template with links to the Subspecies of Argali would be an improvement --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 08:43, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Suggested plan, from chzz
I was asked on WP:SPOTLIGHT IRC how I thought that this article should be improved; my suggestion is this.


 * The 'lede' should be a summary of the whole article, and nothing that is not in the body. Therefore, it's usually best to worry about the lede *last*. I suggest that you change it so that the lede is just "Marco Polo sheep (Ovis ammon polii) is a subspecies of sheep that takes its name from Marco Polo."  Just that - very short.
 * Move all the other bits into the correct section.
 * Then, check that the bits you moved are referenced correctly. Some of the stuff in the current lede isn't, so you should try to source it if possible.
 * Then, expand the article - work on it, etc.
 * At the end - when it's looking good - that's the time to go through the article, summarizing everything, and writing a good lede.

I hope that this is helpful. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  17:38, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, good ideas there. -- Oldlaptop321 (talk · contribs) 19:45, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Herez teh old leadz
Marco Polo sheep (Ovis ammon polii) is a subspecies of sheep, specifically of Argali, that takes its name from famed explorer Marco Polo who described the species during his crossing of Afghanistan (ancient Mount Imeon) in 1271. Marco Polo sheep are found only in the Pamir Mountains in the border region of China, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Tajikistan. Some of the protected areas where the species occurs include the Khunjerab National Park and Central Karakoram National Park in northern Pakistan and the Taxkongau Nature Reserve in southwestern China.

Status
Not long but just see this about protection in Afganistan. - Jarry1250 [ humorous – discuss ] 20:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Picture
Is there any way we could find a picture that represents the breed more then the fact it is hunted?  Blind Eagle  talk ~ contribs  12:33, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I've tried hard to get one; I couldn't find any free images on the net; I have emailed several people who had non-free images, but none have responded so far.  Chzz  ►  20:03, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

GA-Class Criteria
A good article is&mdash;  :
 * (a) ; and
 * (b).

:
 * (a) ;
 * (b) ; and
 * (c).

:
 * (a) ; and
 * (b).

. . :
 * (a) ; and
 * (b).



Distribution map
Could we get a simple distribution map, showing the appropriate countries in Asia; Afghanistan • China • Kyrgyzstan • Pakistan • Tajikistan

The fact that they exist in these countries is from the RedBook, (checking through for polii).

Similar to this: http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/O/Ovis_ammon_polii/Maps/Countries.jpg

 Chzz  ►  02:12, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well the problem here is that these are the distribution of the species and not of the subspecies. A map like that already exists: File:Ovis-ammon-map.png--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 10:18, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * There are some brief guidelines here. I agree it would be useful, but I don't think it would be something I would be confident creating. J Milburn (talk) 13:07, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Two pics uploaded
Line drawing



Anatomy (labelled in German) - worth fixing up? It is the correct species, it was detailed as such in the German text.



 Chzz  ►  03:02, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I see you've added the first pic to the article. I agree.  Great drawing!  In regards to the second one, why is this any better then an anatomical drawing of any other sheep?  I'm not sure if there is one out there already that may be helpful or if just a reference to another article that has this already would be appropriate.  Thoughts?   Blind  Eagle  talk ~ contribs  12:22, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree- the first pic belongs in the article until we can find a decent photograph. The second isn't really worth translating. J Milburn (talk) 13:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Notwithstanding what the German source may have said, the second pic is not a Marco Polo sheep, but a domesticated one. Apart from just "looking" domesticated, and having the proportions of a domesticated sheep, it does not have horns, which Marco Polo sheep do in both rams and ewes.  In fact all wild sheep have horns, apart from some female mouflon.  The only "wild" characteristic of this picture is the short tail – most domestic sheep have a long one, docked or not.  I think this is artistic licence, as the conformation does not really fit the only short-tailed sheep types I know, the Northern European short-tailed sheep group of breeds.  Possibly a Romanov though?  Richard New Forest (talk) 12:18, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that info. I didn't think that it was useful anyway, and now I'm even more convinced. Cheers!  Chzz  ►  22:29, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

George Schaller's Grand Plan to Save the Marco Polo Sheep
Pamir Mountains Peace Park

This is interesting stuff to be added. Google the park for more info.

http://www.savingwildplaces.com/swp-home/swp-explorationandsurvey/239496 http://discovermagazine.com/2008/mar/21-george-schaller.s-grand-plan-to-save-the-marco-polo-sheep

 Chzz  ►  03:22, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Article about Schaller (note, 3 pages)

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/best-of-adventure-2007/wildlife/george-schaller.html

 Chzz  ►  06:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

More decription in German
There is a considerable piece on this specific species in the old German Encyc; I think it could at least be used to make the description better.


 * Original (in German)


 * Auto translation


 * I will translate your great work to the german wikipedia and will see if the article by Brehm will give more stuff to add here too. Greetings from Germany -- Achim Raschka (talk) 09:12, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Maybe no pics available
I have communicated with Indianapolis Zoo (via email), in my hunt for pics. (They awarded a prize to Dr. Schaller, who appears to be the world expert on this species). In part, they said, "I think Dr. Schaller is one of only a few people who have actually been close to them other than the native population (or hunters!)."

Thus, it might be impossible to find more pics.  Chzz  ►  04:04, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * A picture from a zoo would be fine- a picture of them in the wild seems unlikely, which is a shame. J Milburn (talk) 14:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Google has plenty of pictures of them, all dead and with various men in beanies and checked shirts proudly holding up the creature's head by the horns. So charming!, and one guy,Gordon, prides himself on stuffing them! Pity that they aren't content to shoot them with cameras, to the benefit of everyone.Amandajm (talk) 12:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Chzz, did you contact the taxidermist for permission to use that image? It's about as close as you can get without actually photographing one. J Milburn (talk) 12:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

In-line refs
At the moment we have lots of very brief in-line refs, with a corresponding list of full refs at the end. Is there any reason why we can't have the full refs as in-line ones, or is that intended later? Richard New Forest (talk) 21:56, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The references in this article are set up by the Harvard Citation system. Each inline ref links to the reference in the "references" section, which in turn links to the source's information in the Bibliography section.  It's not as common on Wikipedia as the simple "insert ref info and reflist," but works just as well.    Fl ee tf la me   22:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Remainder of discussion not directly relevant to this article, so moved to User talk:Richard New Forest. Richard New Forest (talk) 22:07, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

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