Talk:Marcus Bontempelli/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Steelkamp (talk · contribs) 11:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello, I will be reviewing the article Marcus Bontempelli for Good article status. Please bear with me as this is my first review. I do however have experience with good articles, having had 2020 West Coast Eagles season pass the good article criteria, and two other articles in the nomination stage (Bayswater, Western Australia and Bedford, Western Australia). Steelkamp (talk) 11:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for taking on the review!Doggo375 (talk) 22:43, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Congratulations. I have passed this article. Sorry about the delay, I hadn't noticed you had done everything. Steelkamp (talk) 10:48, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
 * No worries about the delay, I personally thought you were moving at a reasonable pace with the review, and you did a very good job. Thanks again! Doggo375 (talk) 01:08, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Immediate failures
The article does not meet any of the five criteria for immediate failure. It is quite close to meeting all the good article criteria. Having used Earwig's Copyvio Detector, I do not believe there are copyright violations. Steelkamp (talk) 11:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Well written
Prose
 * He played top-level football with the Northern Knights in the TAC Cup and Vic Metro in the AFL Under 18 Championships. – Isn't AFL top level football, not these leagues?
 * ✅ I decided to specify that it was the highest level of junior football by saying 'top-level junior football'. Doggo375 (talk) 22:55, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Bontempelli was born and raised in the northern suburbs of Melbourne, Victoria, the second of four children to father Carlo, whose heritage is from Caulonia, in the Province of Reggio Calabria in Southern Italy, and mother, Geraldine (née Hunt). – This is a really long sentence that tries to explain too much. Split the sentence up into multiple sentences.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 03:57, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


 * He notably had a game where he collected 50 disposals and kicked 10 goals in a game for his school. – It has already been established that he was playing for his school. No need to say it again at the end of that sentence.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 03:58, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


 * 5th round – I reckon it sounds better as round 5. All the others are stated in that way anyway.
 * ✅ – and fixed the other instances of this. Doggo375 (talk) 04:01, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Bontempelli was awarded the Chris Grant best first-year player in 2014, alongside his AFLPA best first-year player award. – The wording implies that the AFLPA award had already been mentioned. Change it to something like Bontempelli was awarded the Chris Grant best first-year player and the AFLPA best first year player in 2014.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 04:47, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


 * NAB AFL Rising Star nomination – You can eliminate NAB as it is just a sponsor, and you can eliminate AFL as that is obvious from context that it is the AFL Rising Star.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 22:51, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Round 13, Round 15, Round 22, Round 2, Round 17, Round 7 – uncapitalise round.
 * ✅ – and removed all other instances of this occurring. Doggo375 (talk) 04:56, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Bontempelli collected 24 disposals, 3 marks, 2 behinds and 7 tackles in the Western Bulldogs' heartbreaking 7 point elimination final loss to Adelaide. – Especially because it is just after a list of numbers, 7 point elimination final loss should be changed to seven point elimination final loss, just so there aren't too many numbers in the sentence.
 * Also, heartbreaking doesn't need to be there.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 04:56, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Bontempelli came third in the Charles Sutton Medal count, beaten by Easton Wood and Bob Murphy.[33] Bontempelli was once again named in the 22 Under 22 team, named in the midfield.[34] Bontempelli more than tripled his Brownlow Medal votes from last season, leading the club for total Brownlow votes that season after picking up thirteen votes at just the age of 19. – There are three consecutive sentences that start with Bontempelli. Consider changing some to "he".
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 03:09, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * becoming the youngest match day captain since Jack Trengove in 2012. – I think it should be specified this is talking about the whole AFL and not just WB. Something like becoming the AFL's youngest match day captain since Jack Trengove in 2012.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 03:12, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * He received 20 votes in the 2016 Brownlow Medal, the highest of any player for the Bulldogs. – Is this for 2016, or forever. This should be clarified.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 07:12, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * He collected 20 votes in the 2016 Brownlow Medal, his best year yet – Remove one of these sentences, or combine them. The 2016 Brownlow shouldn't be mentioned two times in the same paragraph.
 * ✅Doggo375 (talk) 07:12, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * He was instrumental in the Bulldogs' four consecutive finals, including the 2016 AFL Grand Final, which was the club's first premiership victory in 62 years, where he had 22 disposals. – It is a bit awkward adding on that last part to the sentence. Remove it.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 07:12, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * preseason – change it to pre-season.
 * ❌ - I couldn't seem to find an instance of this occurring in the article. Doggo375 (talk) 07:12, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * season best games – change it to season-best games.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 22:36, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Bontempelli played all but one game in the 2018 AFL season, after a disappointing season for the Bulldogs where they missed finals for the second year in a row. – Change this to Bontempelli played all but one game in the 2018 AFL season, in a disappointing season for the Bulldogs where they missed finals for the second year in a row.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 23:05, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * However, he ended up playing his 100th AFL game of his career – Remove the "of his career". It is redundant.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 23:18, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Bontempelli had 5 games where he collected 30 or more disposals, and collected 27 disposals and 3 goals in a season best game against the future premiers, Richmond, in the 7th round of the 2020 AFL season. – Remove that last part that says ", in the 7th round of the 2020 AFL season." It makes the sentence too long, and 2020 is incorrect anyway.
 * - I restructured the sentence so it flows better, but in that process I ended up keeping the round 7 part. Doggo375 (talk)


 * the 22nd round of the season – This can be simplified to round 22.
 * - I changed '22nd round' to penultimate'. Doggo375 (talk) 23:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * and an intensity between the rivalry of the two clubs. – This sentence doesn't really make much sense.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 23:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * He was named in the forward line. – This sentence is a bit short and sticks out like a sore thumb. Integrate the information into the previous sentence.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 23:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Thats all for now. Steelkamp (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Here are some more things to fix:
 * Bontempelli came third in the Charles Sutton Medal count, beaten by Easton Wood and Bob Murphy. – Since this is the first time the medal is mentioned in the body, I think it should be mentioned that the medal is the Western Bulldog's best and fairest award. Just because there would be a significant portion of readers who know about best and fairest awards, but don't know the Charles Sutton Medal in particular. Remove where it is mentioned later in the article so it is not repetitive.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 23:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * giving him a winning margin of 29 votes – No need to add the word "winning" in there. The previous sentence says that he won the award. It is redundant.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 23:58, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Thats all for now. Steelkamp (talk) 07:06, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

I have made some minor changes for the article. You may want to check over those changes. Steelkamp (talk) 16:37, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

MOS:Lead – The article has a Short description, a good image that is representative of the subject, a good infobox filled with useful and relevant information. The lead adequately summarises the article. All information appearing in it appears in the rest of the article as well as far as I can tell. There are no controversial statements, so citations are not needed. There are a few things I would like fixed though:
 * He made his AFL debut the following year in 2014 – It's redundant to say the following year and then 2014. Eliminate one.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 22:51, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Some phrases should be linked, such as Marcellin College, Northern Knights, TAC Cup, All-Australian, etc. Anything that is linked in the body should also be linked in the lead.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 08:56, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Thats all for now. Steelkamp (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Conversely, 2018, 2019 and 2020 shouldn't be linked. It doesn't really help to link to the year's AFL season, unless it is in the AFL career section.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 08:56, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

MOS:LAYOUT – The organisation into Early life, AFL career, Personal life, Statistics, and Honours and achievements is a winning formula. It has been done before in other good articles and featured articles, and it is the most logical solution. The images are appropriately laid out. However there are some issues with the layout that shouldn't be hard to fix:
 * There are too many subheadings under AFL career. The problem is each subsection is only one or two paragraphs long. There doesn't need to be a subsection for every year. Combine them together to make larger, multiyear subsections. The way I might do it is combine 2014 and 2015 (early career), 2016 and 2017 (premiership success), 2018 and 2019 (vice-captaincy), 2020 and 2021 (captaincy). That is just a suggestion, you might want to combine them in a different way.
 * ✅ I've combined those paragraphs in the way you suggested, that seemed like the best layout to me.Doggo375 (talk) 22:43, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Thats all for now. Steelkamp (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * There is something off-putting about how some year headings have an accompanying phrase (such as "Premiership victory") and some don't. Combining sections makes it easier for each to have an accompanying phrase. Just some consistency within the article.
 * Many of those paragraphs, in particular in the AFL career section, are quite large. Split them apart, as it is hard to read massive paragraphs.

MOS:WTW – Passed. Steelkamp (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

MOS:WAF – Not applicable. Steelkamp (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

MOS:EMBED – Passed. Steelkamp (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Verifiable with no original research
MOS:REFERENCES – Passed. Steelkamp (talk) 05:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

WP:RELIABILITY – Having checked all reference url's to see if they are reliable, I can say they are. The problem I have is:
 * The Honours and achievements section should have inline citations.
 * ❌ - Having a look at other AFL bio Good Articles and Featured Articles such as Joel Selwood and Daisy Pearce, neither of their Honours and Achievement sections have inline citations. I also feel like adding inline citations would just be repeating what has already been stated in the AFL career section. Doggo375 (talk) 00:27, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

I have yet to check 10 random statements to see if their source agrees with them. Steelkamp (talk) 05:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Update: I have checked 10 random statements in the article to see if their source agrees with them. Here is the list:
 * Bontempelli was born and raised in the northern suburbs of Melbourne, Victoria. He was the second of four children to father Carlo, whose heritage is from Caulonia in Italy, and mother, Geraldine (née Hunt).[3] – The inline citation for this does not support this statement. It does not mention his father and his heritage. It does not mention his mother's maiden name. It does not mention where he grew up.
 * ✅ - I have removed the statements regarding heritage and his Mother's maiden name, which have been in the article for a while and I suspect were not properly sourced at the time. I have added reliable sources for the other parts of that statement, one from TLA Worldwide and one from domain.com.au. Doggo375 (talk) 07:23, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Initially, it was not clear where Bontempelli was likely to be selected in the 2013 AFL draft. Some sources had Bontempelli ranging from pick four to even as far down as pick 15.[13][14][15] – All good
 * In round 15, Bontempelli kicked a remarkable goal tight up on the boundary in the final minutes of the match to give the Dogs a one-goal win over Melbourne. Bontempelli was awarded the Chris Grant best first-year player in 2014, alongside the AFL Players Association best first-year player award.[25] – The citation doesn't go into as much detail on the goal as this. It doesn't mention that it was near the boundary or that it was in the final minutes.
 * ✅ - Added a reference which goes into more detail. Doggo375 (talk) 00:23, 10 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Bontempelli continued to improve over the course of the 2015 season, playing all games except for round three and round ten, when he was injured with an adductor strain.[29] – citation makes no mention that he continued to improve, or that he didn't play round three.
 * ✅ - Added two references which back up improvement and rounds he was out. Doggo375 (talk) 09:04, 10 June 2021 (UTC)


 * He was instrumental in the Bulldogs' four consecutive finals, including the 2016 AFL Grand Final, which was the club's first premiership victory in 62 years, where he had 22 disposals. His season was rewarded with the Charles Sutton Medal as the club best and fairest, finishing 71 votes clear of second placed Dale Morris.[43] – The first sentence is not supported by this citation.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 00:19, 10 June 2021 (UTC)


 * On 20 November 2017, Bontempelli was named vice-captain of the club for the 2018 AFL season, following Murphy's retirement and Wood's elevation to captain from vice-captain.[59] – All good
 * For the fifth consecutive year, Bontempelli was named in the 22 under 22 team, setting the record as the first player to be named in the 22 under 22 team for 5 consecutive years.[72] – All good
 * In the main 2020 AFL season, Bontempelli had a stand out game against Adelaide in round 12, where he had 33 disposals, 2 goals and 9 tackles.[95] – A citation of an actual news article of the match is necessary to write that he had a stand out game against Adelaide.
 * ✅ Doggo375 (talk) 07:28, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Steelkamp (talk) 07:06, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Bontempelli is the younger cousin of former St Kilda and North Melbourne player Nick Dal Santo.[112] – All good
 * He supported Richmond in his youth, and cited Matthew Richardson as his all-time favourite player.[113] – All good

WP:ORIGINAL
 * Excitement around his performance grew,[51] after former Melbourne and Sydney great Gerald Healy described Bontempelli as someone who 'could end his career as the greatest player in the history of the Western Bulldogs'.[52] – The first source was published before the second source, so this doens't make sense. Either way, synthesis of published material is not allowed. You could say the Gerald Healy quote, but not that excitement around his performance grew as a result of it.
 * ✅ - Gave the quote some context and moved into into a more appropriate timeframe so it makes sense. Doggo375 (talk) 09:13, 10 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Hey! Good work with this article. I'm just letting you know that the bottom stats section (2023) and season 2022 and 2023 are out of date. I managed to complete season 2021 and put in some basic end-of-year stuff for 2022 and 2023, but more padding is required like other years to maintain GA status. I will not call for a review yet, but please get this done ASAP to avoid it going for a review.
 * Also, I know your goal is to get the current WB squad all GA, but have you considered maybe going for WB Hall of Fame inductees once this article is updated? Maybe you could start with WB players who are in the Australian Football Hall of Fame and work your way down. Legend category might be a good place to start, with Teddy Whitten being a pretty logical starting place. Thoughts? Electricmaster (talk) 05:34, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * True. That is the difficulty with GAing active players. They need to have constant updates done on their articles. Looks like isn't that active on Wikipedia anymore, so this may not necessarily be updated soon. Maybe post about this on WT:AFL and someone there might like to take this article on. Otherwise delisting as a good article is likely. Steelkamp (talk) 05:39, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Heya, I haven't been super active lately on Wikipedia because of finals, life and other various occurrences. I can try to give it a go soon, but it would be great if somebody else could take it on as well. Doggo375 (talk) 05:43, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Just did a quick copyedit, and the 2022 update is looking good, so I've deleted the updated tag. I trust that the 2023 section will be updated in due course, so I'll check in on it next year. It's okay as it is, but obviously the standard for GA is higher than 99% of other articles. Good job. Electricmaster (talk) 07:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

WP:COPYVIO – Having used Earwig's Copyvio Detector, I do not believe there are any copyright violations. Steelkamp (talk) 05:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Broad in its coverage
I am satisfied that the article addresses the main topics but does not go into unnecessary detail. Steelkamp (talk) 05:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Neutral
Article is neutral. Steelkamp (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Stable
Article is stable and is not subject to an edit war. Steelkamp (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Illustrated
There is an appropriate number of images that are all relevant to the article. They are all tagged with their copyright statuses, and have suitable captions. This isn't required for a good article, or even a featured article, but you might want to consider adding alt text to the images for accessibility reasons. Steelkamp (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)