Talk:Margaret Travers Symons

What did she actually shout?
This article is internally inconsistent about what it is she shouted - the lead says she shouted "address the women's issue," but the actual article body says she shouted "Votes for Women!" Neither is sourced, and the sources out there seem to disagree with each other - this article in the Independent agrees with our lead, this blog post our article cites elsewhere says she said "Leave off discussing the children’s question and attend to women first. Votes for Women!" And then BBC History Magazine says she said "Leave off discussing the children's question and give votes to the women first!"

It seems to me like we don't have any other choice than to go with a lame "sources disagree..." kind of wording, but I'll leave this here a while first in case someone has a better idea. -Elmer Clark (talk) 19:14, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I've created a list of quotations as per your suggestion. However, I had to leave the citation for the BBC History Magazine incomplete as I don't have access to it. Would you be so kind as to complete that? Thanks. — howcheng  {chat} 03:19, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Done, and nice work, this is a big improvement. Strangely I can't access the article from my own link either, only directly from Google search results. -Elmer Clark (talk) 07:17, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Father, husband
I think her father was Robert Williams (1848-1918), as here. I also think her husband was William Travers Symons (born 1879), known as a journalist in the 1920s and 1930s.

I came to this from research outlined on Talk:Philip Mairet. The clincher for me is that both Robert Williams, and Henry (Harry) James Symons (c.1851-1918), who I reckon is the father of William Travers Symons, lived in Lee, London. This would mean that Margaret and William could have met as neighbours.

The article says the husband was from New Zealand. HJ Symons certainly had business connections there, in the insurance world. It is quite plausible that the sheep-farming husband had been set up there by his 20s by his father.

it would certainly be useful to stand up these family connections and strengthen this article. Robert Williams was on the London County Council and had progressive views, so that Keir Hardie isn't hard to explain.

Travers Symons would be worth an article, also. Ally of Charles William Daniel, crops up with T. S. Eliot. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:53, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

So this story "How It Was Managed" about the House of Commons incident identifies Mrs. Travers Williams as "the daughter of Mr. Robert Williams, an architect, at present engaged in Cairo, formerly of the London County Council." Good enough. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:27, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Robert Williams in the Directory of British Architects:. Obituary in The Builder: Charles Matthews (talk) 08:47, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Divorce
Name: 	Margaret Ann Symons Gender: 	Female Record Type: 	Divorce Type: 	Wife's petition for divorce [WD] Petition Date: 	1910-2-1; decree nisi 1910-5-27 Spouse: 	William Travers Symons Divorce Court File Number: 	279
 * The National Archives; Kew, Surrey, England; Court for Divorce and Matrimonial Causes, later Supreme Court of Judicature: Divorce and Matrimonial Causes Files, J 77; Reference Number: J 77/997/279, 15pp and can download if required

Census
Name: 	Robert Williams, architect Gender: 	Male Age: 	43 Relationship: 	Head Birth Year: 	1848 Spouse: 	Elizabeth A Williams Child: 	Margareta Williams Imgo L Williams Birth Place: 	Pendoylan, Glamorgan, Wales Civil parish: 	Lee Ecclesiastical parish: 	St Mildreds Residence Place: 	Lee, London, England Registration district: 	Lewisham Sub registration district: 	Lee ED, Institution or Vessel: 	16a Piece: 	519 Folio: 	109 Household Members 	Age 	Relationship Robert Williams 	43 	Head Elizabeth A Williams	44 	Wife Margareta Williams	17 	Daughter Inigo L Williams	15 	Son Elizabeth S Applegate	37 	Visitor Emmeline A Dowsett	27 	Servant
 * 1891 England

This indicates that the 1879 birth date is misleading, and would be 1874. — billinghurst  sDrewth  21:42, 9 October 2021 (UTC)


 * 1901 England

Name: 	Margaret A Williams Age: 	27 Relation to Head: 	Servant Gender: 	Female Birth Place: 	Paddington, London, England Civil Parish: 	Bromley Ecclesiastical parish: 	Chislehurst the Annunciation Town: 	Bromley Occupation: Governess Condition as to marriage: Registration District: 	Bromley Sub-registration District: 	Bromley ED, institution, or vessel: 	15 Piece: 	683 Folio: 	122 Page Number: 	22 Household Schedule Number: 	112 Name 	Age John Dewrance 	43 Mechanical engineer Isabella A Dewrrance 	40 Claire Durrance 	15 Margaret A Williams 	27 Edith M Cocks 	32 Elizabeth Rose 	73 Susannah A Osborne 	23 Amy Berley 	37

Believe this to be Sir John Dewrance

Name: 	Margaret Ann Williams Age: 	9 Relation: 	Visitor Gender: 	Female Where born: 	London Paddington, Middlesex, England Civil Parish: 	Merthyr Tydfil Street Address: 	78 Thomas Street Occupation: 	Scholar Registration District: 	Merthyr Tydfil Sub registration district: 	Lower Merthyr Tydfil ED, institution, or vessel: 	33 Piece: 	5313 Folio: 	104 Page Number: 	12 Household Members: Name 	Age David Evans 	50  printer compositor Anne Evans 	48 John H. Evans 	13 Maggie Evans 	19 Kate Evans 	16 Margaret Ann Williams 	9 Inigo Rees Williams 	5
 * 1881 Wales

Baptism
Name: 	Margaret Ann Williams Gender: 	Female Record Type: 	Baptism Baptism Date: 	1 Feb 1874; birth Aug 18, 1873 Baptism Place: 	St Michael and All Angels, Paddington, Westminster, England Father: 	Robert Williams, carpenter, living 3 Sale St. Mother: 	Margaret Williams Register Type: 	Parish Register
 * London Metropolitan Archives; London, England; London Church of England Parish Registers; Reference Number: P87/MAA/001

Right time and place for corrected age, though wife of Robert is different from 1891 census. Tracking down that death and a re-marriage through records will be tough, it will require on more contextual secondary records. — billinghurst  sDrewth  21:59, 9 October 2021 (UTC)


 * ✅ you may change the year, you don't change the day/month — billinghurst  sDrewth  22:08, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Birth
Name: 	Margaret Ann Williams Registration Year: 	1873 Sep. Q. Registration District: 	Kensington Volume: 	1a Page: 	71
 * FreeBMD

What is the evidence for "Mary Ann" it doesn't seem to be supported by records. — billinghurst  sDrewth  22:22, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Publications
Name: 	Margaret Travers-Symons Electoral Date: 	1950 Street Address: 	17 LC-Lehmann, Victor Ward or Division/Constituency: 	Holborn and St Pancras County or Borough: 	Camden, England
 * London Metropolitan Archives; London, England; Electoral Registers

Comment
Quick searches only show Symons in 1940s directories and 1939 Register, so it is going to need digging, especially as double-barrelled surnames are quirky and irregular in records and complicated further in trancriptions. She is shown as Margaret Ann Williams at marriage so if she is also Mary Ann Williams, that is again further complicating picking apart in the early years, especially with a Robert as father with no clear years of life. They also married/divorced between 1901 and 1911 census so not even kicking those into play.

William Travers Symons is 1879-1976.

Will need to get some clear, extended research and thinking time, which I don't quite have momentarily. Will see what I can patch together. — billinghurst  sDrewth  21:20, 9 October 2021 (UTC)