Talk:Marginal sea

Caribbean
Now that we have marginal seas for three oceans, a question:

Is the Caribbean regarded as a marginal sea?

Bathrobe


 * It is not a marginal sea because it is a part of the American Mediterranean Sea. See mediterranean sea for detail. - TAKASUGI Shinji 12:54, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)


 * Apparently there is no article for mediterranean seas as a feature of physical geography, instead it redirects to the Mediterranean Sea. --Big Adamsky 15:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

There is an article for mediterranean seas as a feature of physical geography. Just go to Mediterranean sea (common "s", not capital "S" - otherwise you will get the article on The Mediterranean Sea between Europe and Africa). Thus, as has been pointed out before, the Caribbean is not a marginal sea, because it is part of the American mediterrean sea.72.27.107.50 22:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

mediterranean sea as marginal sea
Following is a definition of mediterranean seas which includes them within the definition of marginal seas: “Mediterranean seas are a special class of marginal seas, which are defined as those parts of the World Ocean that are separated from the major deep ocean basins by topographic features such as islands or bay-like coastline configurations. Examples of marginal seas are some of the major shelf regions, e.g. the North Sea or the East China Sea, and topographically semi-enclosed ocean regions, e.g. the Tasman Sea or the Bay of Bengal. While the circulation and stratification in these marginal seas may be strongly modified by thermohaline or tidal forcing it is still dominated by the wind. Mediterranean seas are the only marginal seas where thermohaline forcing dominates.” Regional Oceanography: an Introduction Tomczak, Matthias & J Stuart Godfrey 2nd edn (2003) (pdf pg 2 of 22 depicting page 84 of printed textbook)

The same website http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~mattom/index2.html links to another oceanography text online that agrees with the presentation of mediterranean seas as being distinct from all marginal seas. “Mediterranean Seas are mostly surrounded by land. By this definition,the Arctic and Caribbean Seas are both Mediterranean Seas, the Arctic Mediterranean and the Caribbean Mediterranean. Marginal Seas are defined by only an indentation in the coast. The Arabian Sea and South China Sea are marginal seas.” Introduction To Physical Oceanography Robert H. Stewart Department of Oceanography Texas A & M University Copyright 2006 September 2006 Edition (pdf pg 31 depicting pg 23 of printed textbook ****NB: 9+MB.pdf: hispeed connection recommended)

More importantly, there are numerous internet examples of the term marginal sea being applied to individual seas recognized as mediterranean seas. I will cite them (or one can do a search on 'marginal sea') only if necessary.

I don't think the situation is ambiguous with different author(itie)s having different definitions. I think it's a common human process when one special subset arises among a set of things, that the term for the whole set 'drifts' away from the special case (which now has its own 'special' name) and becomes associated only to the non-special case (e.g., even if we know better, there is tendency to think of a square and a rectangle as two different things; when considered singularly, it's difficult to think of the thumb as a finger). However, I think technically, correctly, and commonly, mediterranean seas are regarded as marginal seas, and should be presented in Wikipedia as such (while, perhaps more importantly, elaborating on their special features).

Especially if there is no response to the contrary, I would like to eventually change this article to be in accord with the idea of mediterranean seas being special cases of marginal seas. Jauntymcd 14:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

baltic sea
is the baltic not a marginal sea of the atlantic and what about the black sea? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.146.59.145 (talk) 21:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Big update done, followup required
The category Marginal sea had a bunch of seas that weren't listed here. I just added them to this article. But unlike the seas previously listed here, the seas I just added don't say what landforms separate them from their oceans. Someone else might want to add that information to the seas I just added. - Shaheenjim (talk) 01:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The Mediterranean Sea's marginal seas
Note that I added a section to this article for the marginal seas of the (European) Mediterranean Sea (for example, the Aegean Sea). I did that because the Category:Marginal seas includes a section for the marginal seas of the (European) Mediterranean Sea. But the description of marginal sea on this article makes it sound like marginal seas are different than mediterranean seas, so I don't know if the section I added should really be in this article. But if it shouldn't be in this article, then someone should probably remove it from the category Marginal Seas too. And if the Aegean Sea's relationship to the (European) Mediterranean Sea shouldn't be listed here, then I'm not sure where it should be listed. - Shaheenjim (talk) 02:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think they are just subdivisions of the Mediterranean Sea rather than marginal seas. I'll wait for professional opinions. - TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 03:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Certainly they're subdivisions. But I think marginal seas ARE subdivisions of the larger ocean/sea.  So just because they're subdivisions, that doesn't mean they aren't also marginal seas.  The question is:  What do you call a sea that is NOT a marginal sea, and do the (European) Mediterranean Sea's subdivisions fall into that category?  I'm not sure of the answer. - Shaheenjim (talk) 01:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks like the Red Sea is listed in this article as a Marginal Sea, but it's also included on the list of Mediterranean seas. That's another thing that would be a contradiction, if Marginal Seas are different than Mediterranean seas. - Shaheenjim (talk) 04:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The idea of a marginal sea (like the Aegean) of a non-marginal sea (like the Mediterranean) is very confusing. I can understand that in the context of the Mediterranean Sea one can talk of one of its marginal seas, but in a broader, oceanographic, context, this seems not right. Perhaps the article should be modified in this regard. --İnfoCan (talk) 15:16, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Many sources say the Mediterranean is a marginal sea. This book, for example (which also says the Gulf of Mexico and Labrador Sea are marginal seas), and this book, and this one too (which focuses on four specific marginal seas: the Baltic Sea, North Sea, Black Sea, and Mediterranean Sea). Other sources use different definitions. Some distinguish between "marginal seas" and "mediterranean seas". Some don't. Pfly (talk) 09:58, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Wiktionary def
The wictionary definition is unsourced and wictionary itself is not an WP:RS. If a contradiction exists, then it could be because wictionary got it wrong or incomplete. Wictionary's def may be correct, but it needs to be verified. Please find a valid reliable source before slapping a contradict tag on an article. Vsmith (talk) 18:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Nonsense definition
"As an oceanographic term, marginal sea indicates a partially enclosed sea adjacent to or widely open to the open ocean at the surface, but bounded by submarine ridges on the sea floor"

If this definition is right ( which I doubt ),  then most of the alleged marginal seas listed further down would have to be deleted,   because hardly any of them are bounded by "submarine ridges".Eregli bob (talk) 07:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Please clarify...
The article describes a "marginal sea" as "a sea partially enclosed by islands, archipelagos, or peninsulas, adjacent to or widely open to the open ocean at the surface..."

From that definition, examples like the Arabian Sea make sense, because they are only *partially* enclosed and widely open on one side.

But then the Mediterranean Sea, which strikes me as the farthest thing from the definition given, is also listed as "marginal," when it's a large sea that's only connected by a rather narrow straits to the rest of the Atlantic. Likewise, even the Black Sea is listed as "marginal," when its connection with the rest of the Mediterranean is even narrower still!

One thing which would be helpful would be to list examples of any seas which are *not* deemed to be "marginal" and explain why. Because, as the article's currently written, it gives the impression that *every* sea is "marginal," in which case the label is rather useless... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.225.128.130 (talk) 09:02, 31 July 2015 (UTC)