Talk:Maria Kaczyńska

Was the First Lady?
The article now says "was the First Lady of Poland from 2005 to 2010 as wife of Lech Kaczyński, the then President of Poland."

It is true that the president has died but he is still de jure president on paper and therefore I can't understand why all of you edit the article all the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.255.103.125 (talk) 16:07, 10 April 2010 (UTC)


 * In English, past tense is used when speaking of a person who had passed away, hence the "was". I don't understand what do you mean by the dead president "is still de jure president" when Poland now has an Acting President (and a dead person can't serve as the president anyway, unless it is in North Korea). -- Joshua Say "hi" to me!What I've done? 18:25, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Daughter & Grandchildren
An editor has decided to revert, twice now, the inclusion of her daughters name+ DoB (Marta, 1980) which has been in the article text for at least 3 years, and her granchildren's names (recent inclusion) as "The information is irrelevant and invades people's privacy" See Diff. What do other editors think? I seek concensus to include the data as: Comments please? --220.101.28.25 (talk) 19:10, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) There is no guideline or policy preventing it, (that I know off)
 * 2) The information is from Maria Kaczyńskas' official biography page, Bio., & AFAIK, has been reported in several recent news reports.
 * 3) It is common Wikipedia practice to include such information in biographical articles.
 * The Polish wikipedia seem to have the daughters' details, --220.101.28.25 (talk) 20:45, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The information about her daughter's name, and that of her grandchildren, is altogether unnecessary and a violation of their privacy. It should stay out. It's not enough for there to be no policy specifically prohibiting it - if you want to include it, there should be a good, specific reason why the information must be included. There is no such reason. Note that while policy does not specifically prohibit the information you want to include WP:BLP states, "The presumption in favor of privacy is strong in the case of family members of articles' subjects and other loosely involved persons without independent notability." BLP applies everywhere - including in articles like this that aren't BLPs. UserVOBO (talk) 22:14, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * See specifically WP:BLPNAME. UserVOBO (talk) 22:43, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't see a concensus here, or any wish by you to seek it. As you are aware, another editor felt the same as me on Lech Kaczyński. I see it as 2 for inclusion, and you against. How can their privacy be violated when their names are widely reported? Including (the daughters' at least) in the pl.Wikipedia article? Which was in the article here for at least 3 years?. See also my point 3, above "common Wikipedia practice". List of articles with daughters'/ grandchildrens names:
 * European American Sheriff’s Advisory Council, The Epoch Times, Polish Newsweek, wyborcza, Radio Gdansk, www.abc.es, www.lrytas.lt, first-lady-returns-to-poland, marta-kaczynska-zmuszona-wyjsc-z-cienia, Wall Street Journal PHOTO + caption 2nd from bottom Poland mourns as president, wife lie in state
 * Why do you feel so strongly about this? Please explain. I hope you are assuming good faith on my part, even though I am an 'anon IP' (a static IP too!), I am not a vandal or troll. Please check my contributions and this if you have doubts on that score. Also remember wp:CONCENSUS--220.101.28.25 (talk) 09:45, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:CONSENSUS does not trump WP:BLP. There is no good reason for including this information, and perfectly good reasons for keeping it out. That her name has been widely reported is neither here nor there; it doesn't affect the presumption in favor of privacy in BLP. UserVOBO (talk) 22:44, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100413010744/http://www.prezydent.pl:80/para-prezydencka/pierwsza-dama/biografia to http://www.prezydent.pl/para-prezydencka/pierwsza-dama/biografia/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100408201420/http://www.president.pl:80/en/first-lady/biography to http://www.president.pl/en/first-lady/biography/

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110927161558/http://www.mchs.gov.ru/emergency/detail.php?ID=31710 to http://www.mchs.gov.ru/emergency/detail.php?ID=31710
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100408201420/http://www.president.pl/en/first-lady/biography to http://www.president.pl/en/first-lady/biography/

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