Talk:Mariachi/Archive 1

vihuela
There are two instruments called vihuela, and I have reorganized the vihuela article to reflect that fact. However, my section on the Mexican vihuela used in mariachi bands is merely a two-sentence stub, so if you have something useful to say about it you may want to edit it. &mdash; B.Bryant 23:39, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) please watch tosh.o —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.135.31.186 (talk) 18:21, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

"Coca Indians"
Coca redirects to the plant. This isn't a subject I know much about (the history of Mariachi), but I don't think that's the correct link. I'm a bit swamped and am wikipediing for a bit of R&R, so I figured I had time to point this out. Don 07:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Song question
What is the name of that one song, that is used almost always to stereotype Mexico on TV? I've been trying to find that out for ages, but all I know is, that it's Mariachi. — Mütze 22:00, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That's the jarabe tapatio, known in English as the "Mexican Hat Dance". Tapatio means it's from Jalisco, the same state as the origin of the mariachi . The name jarabe tapatio literally means "Jalisco syrup" Tubezone 18:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * And a Jarabe is more like a dance suite than it is like a song. The typical melody that folks in the US associate with the *Mexican Hat Dance* is only the first melody in the suite. Tbyrnestl 22:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)tbyrnestl

Size of a mariachi group / band
When I have traveled in Mexico, I've also seen groups of as few as 3 musicians who play music in the Mariachi style.

I've also seen mariachi-type bands that include an accordion.

Is there a way to incorporate this info into the article.rich 00:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I've been to Salon Tenampa and Plaza de los Mariachis in Mexico City, most of the mariachi I saw there were grouped in bands of 5, IIRC, and I don't recall seeing any accordions. Like variations in British accents, the differences between Mexican styles aren't always obvious to outside, inexperienced observers (such as myself). There are plenty of buskers in Mexico who aren't, strictly speaking, mariachi. The accordion, for example, seems to be more typical of the Norteño than mariachi. Reading the articles under Category:Mexican styles of music may answer some of your questions, but perhaps an article "Mexican street musicians" or "List of Mexican busking styles" is in order here, to help simplify the subject for non-Mexicans. I certainly agree that there needs to expansion in the English Wikipedia of simple explanations of the different Mexican styles, with pictures, maybe sort of an Audubon's guide to Mexican music for the English speaking turista. Tubezone 01:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The tejano bands are very different to mariachis as long as they include electronic guitar and bass instruments, so they are more related to norteño bands. I think the use of accordion in the american mariachis (mariachis formed in USA by mexican inmigrants, normally they can be seen on hispanic TV shows) is more the result of mixing different styles. The accordion is sometimes taking the role of the guitarron as providing the bass sounds. We must take in account that the basic instruments are violins, guitars and trumpets.

Technically, the smallest size a mariachi can be is 3, the guitarron, vihuela, and a melody instrument (trumpet or violin). The guitarron and vihuela are necessary because they are the only true mariachi instruments and without them present the group is not a mariachi (i'll try to find my documentation on this). Also, technically, a mariachi can consist of almost any instruments and still be considered a "mariachi" as long as the guitarron and vihuela are present. Some mariachis especially in northern Mexico and the Southern US can include accordions as mentioned above, however, it is more likely that the group you saw was what is called a conjunto norteno, which usually includes an accordion, a bajo sexto, an upright bass, and sometimes a saxophone and snare drum and are quite prevalent in northern mexico, texas and california. There are only two true mariachi styles, the style of music from Jalisco which are the Sones (the original mariachi music) and Musica Ranchera which came into popularity in the 1930's and 40's, almost any other music that mariachis play are merely adaptations of other types of music.--Elmariachi 04:26, 14 November 2006 (UTC)--Elmariachi 04:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Also, technically, a mariachi can consist of almost any instruments and still be considered a "mariachi" as long as the guitarron and vihuela are present. I added a note to the article about that. Thanks for the clarification. Tubezone 07:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Here is my citation for that, if one of you guys wants to put it in: Nevin, Jeff. Virtuoso Mariachi. University Press of America, New York. 2002. (p.19)--Elmariachi 21:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Mariachi music is very different these days. The standard mariachi group today would have 6 violins, 2 trumpets, 1 vihuela, 1 guitar, and 1 guitarron. But I've seen mariachis with 2-3 guitarrons, countless vihuelas and guitars or sometimes having just one guitar or one vihuela, from 1-8 violins, from none to 4 trumpets, an accordion, jaranas, guitarras de golpe, different style harps such as jalisciense which is typical for mariachi, jarocha, or different styled paraguayans(some mariachis have 2 harps such as vargas), classical basses, flutes, and percussion like drums. vargas usually performs with a symphony and started a common trend with mariachis. mariachi music is always swiftly changing and growing. mariachi vargas started with just 2 violins, a guitarra de golpe, and an arpa jalisciense. they were probably the most changing mariachi of all. i wish some mariachi historians would work on this article cause there are a lot of holes in it. or a lot of information is not exactly accurate as far as far as undocumented information. a lot could be worded better also to give a more precise understanding. Myke 08:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Kazoo? Really? Is this vandalism? Also, there's a quality mariachi in Odessa, TX that has a clarinet player. Maybe that could be added to the instrumentation list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.110.207.172 (talk) 20:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

You must probably seen the internacional mariachi exhibition that was done in Guadalajara every september in the last years, while some foreign mariachis follow the standards of a mexican mariachi, several mariachis try to cover some instruments with others, the only fact is there are some non-written rules over mariachi performing: only spanish songs (english songs only if the mariachi is only giving background music), no electronic instruments (electric guitar and bass converts instantly the mariachi in a norteño band) and costumes.

Jalisco harp and traje de charro
I think the term "silver studded" is pretty misleading when describing the traje de charro. I've mostly heard the silver described as "adornos" and they are made by two silver buttons (wrong word, but button comes closest: a charm/pendant thing with a loop like a button the back) linked togethr by a short chain (about 2.5.") with a smaller 'charm' dangling down the middle. A small hole is made in the fabric on either side of the seam, the loop on the back of the adorno is pushed through the hole, and a bit of string is used to keep the adorno in place.  (this makes it easier to take them off for cleaning.)  I could take a picture of an adorno (unattached to a suit) for reference, if anyone feels it would be helpful.  The cut of a charro suit is specific enough that it may even be enough to constitute its own article. Also, I think the jalisco harp merits mention in the opening sentence.  Though they are not found in all mariachis, they are more traditional than trumpets, and their scarcity is more due to the scarcity of competent players than anything else. Meichigo 21:00, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

illicit and broken external links
The external ref elmariachi.com, added to the site a couple of times now violates Wikipedia's standards for external links. It's a commercial site without any information relative to an encyclopedic article. Note also that blogs and social engineering pages are also prohibited. See External Links  Tbyrnestl 22:47, 28 June 2007 (UTC)tbyrnestl

There were a number of other links that don't pass muster with the Wikipedia guidelines, and I've commented them out for the time being. If someone wants to make a case for them here and reactive then they may do so. Without such justification though consider them supressed.

Again the relvant rules here are that a) Wikipedia articles are encyclopedic articles not web indexes and b) external links are links to external sites which present similar but more extensive content. So history pages, pages about particular performers, etc. These are all valid. Blogs, newsgroups, concert calendar sites, commercial music sale sites or sites that combine any or all of the above violate wikipedia's policy for external links. See External Links  if you have any questions. Tbyrnestl 03:19, 29 June 2007 (UTC)tbyrnestl

Copyvio?
Portions of this page appear to be pasted in from. Chubbles (talk) 20:44, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Which parts, specifically? They can be removed. ✤ JonHarder talk 04:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Relation to son jarocho

 * Tourists frequently confuse mariachis with all types of buskers seen in Mexico, such as jarochos.

According to the description of mariachi music at the All Music Guide, "Mariachi is an urban style of son jarocho that originated in the central part of Mexico and was found from the city of Guadalajara to the south-central state of Michoacan." 

Does this statement contradict this? If mariachis are a type of jarochos, then perhaps it should be clarified. Dforest (talk) 21:54, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Mariachi is an urban style of son jalisciense, not son jarocho. Mariachi musicians and jarochos are very different, even though they both play son they instrumentation and style is very different. Gunblader928 (talk) 03:08, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

plaigarism/ mariachi as a musical style/ standard instrumentation
Well, first off, I've never really made an edit on Wikipedia beyond fixing bits that were obviously typos and things like that, so please bear with me if I sound like an idiot.

Sebastien de la Cruz deleted by vicious heretics

 * The article about talented young mariachi Sebastien de la Cruz was deleted by vicious racists who just hate anyone of Mexican ancestry. Sebastien is American born but sinful bullies of the Devil variety accused him of being an "illegal" because of his name and his face. Das Baz, aka Erudil 21:20, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

There are bits of this article that seem to be to be pasted from http://www.chapu.com/site/cultura/ingles/mariachi.html

This bit


 * Aided by the advent of radio, television, and the movies, mariachi music went on to become a definitive part of Mexican culture, and the Mariachi Vargas de Tecalitlán appeared in over 200 films in the 1940s and 1950s, often considered the Golden Age of Mexican cinema.

seems to be the most conspicuous instance.

Secondly, even though the article starts off saying


 * Mariachi is a type of musical group, originally from Cocula, Jalisco, Mexico.

it also seems to rather heavily imply that mariachi is a style of music, which it is not. Just to make sure, I checked the Spanish language article, and it specifically states that "mariachi" refers to a certain type of ensemble, and the correct term for music associated with mariachis would be either "Regional Mexican" or "Traditional Mexican". On the other hand, though, I suppose it could be argued that mariachi simply has a different meaning in English than it does in Spanish. Either way though, I think the article should be made more consistant.

Lastly, when I lived in central California, many of the mariachi bands I encountered almost resembled small jazz ensembles. A normal group of this type would consist of 1 guitarrón, 1 vihuela/guitar, 1-2 trumpets, 1-2 trombones, and maybe 1 saxaphone, with usuallly no violins at all. Once I also saw a group where the guitarrón player switched to upright bass for a couple of Cuban tunes, but I wouldn't say this is usual or important (since he only used it for the Cuban songs).

Now, if it's decided that in English "mariachi" refers to the same thing it does in Spanish, then this note isn't all that relevant, but if it's decided that it refers to the type of music that mariachis play, then I think it might deserve a mention. I haven't seen any of those types of groups since moving to Arizona though, so they might not be common enough to warrant inclusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Namaps (talk • contribs) 20:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Requinto/Standard Instrumentation?
There may not actually /be/ a ridgidly standardized instrumentation for the mariachi. Just like in the modern orchestra, there are some instruments that are always there ('cellos), some that are usually there (French horns), some that may or may not be there depending on the piece (trumpets), and some that are only rarely there (saxaphones). Also, just like the orchestra, the instrumentation has evolved over time: orchestras once included recorders; these days they typically don't.

The original Mariachis did include violins, but nowadays it's common to see them without violins. The essential instruments seem to be the guitarron, guitar, and trumpet, with the vihuela and violin being frequently, but not always present. In addition, modern mariachis often include a /requinto/ -- a small guitar tuned a fourth higher than the standard guitar. The requinto isn't even mentioned in this article, but probably should be.

—Preceding Reader X comment added by Reader X (talk

I've seen it suggested, but can't find a reference now, that the brass instruments in these bands came in via German immigrants. I can't hear any suggestion in the music itself, so am I imagining this? Perhaps it related to the broader Tex-Mex style.Ian (talk) 16:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * "Original Mariachis did include violins" Really? Because the oldest recordings (coculense) are harp, guitarra de golpe, vihuela, and 2 violins Gunblader928 (talk) 00:59, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Formatting
The formatting on this page is pretty broken right now, I don't have the knowledge to fix it but I felt I should alert those who can to the issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.144.41.50 (talk) 00:05, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151126052414/http://www.mariachi-sanandres.com/ to http://www.mariachi-sanandres.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120729005340/http://www.wliw.org/productions//performance/mariachi-the-spirit-of-mexico/66/ to http://www.wliw.org/productions/performance/mariachi-the-spirit-of-mexico/66/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120508174014/http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/04/11526485-mariachi-has-changed-my-life-mexican-music-grabs-us-students?lite to http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/04/11526485-mariachi-has-changed-my-life-mexican-music-grabs-us-students?lite

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External links modified
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MARIACHI
mariachi 103.105.214.85 (talk) 12:51, 8 November 2022 (UTC)