Talk:Marian doctrines of the Catholic Church

Untitled
There is already a discussion on this topic on Blessed Virgin Mary's talk page. So all discussion should be directed there, so that it can be a focused conversation, and not fragmented messages on separate pages. Thank you. History2007 (talk) 20:59, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Cultural acceptance
I'd like to see some discussion of the factors that led to the widespread veneration of Mary, apparently out of proportion to her theological significance. --Monado (talk) 16:06, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, out of proportion is certainly your view. And it is not apparent to me. There were a couple of saints (Louis de Montfort included) and a couple of popes e.g. John Paul II and Pius XII, and a few Mariologists who would have probably also strongly disagreed with that statement and called for more veneration. And there are many Roman Catholics, myself included, who also think there has not been enough veneration. In my view, it was not cultural issues that led to the veneration, for that would assume a mechanical (may I say Newtonian) sense of logic. I my view the veneration was an element of Marian grace. But I am sure there are 1000 theologians who have 100 different viewpoints, and they will debate it for 200 years still. History2007 (talk) 16:50, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I was reviewing this article and Roman Catholic Mariology. It seems to me that it will make sense to merge them.

Rationale:


 * 1. This article is about the theological aspects of Catholic Marian doctrines - obviously.


 * 2. Mariology is defined as: "the theological study of Mary, the mother of Jesus" by Wikipedia itself.


 * 3. From 1 and 2 above, it follows that this article is about Mariology in a Catholic context.

Therefore it makes sense to have these theological issues within the article Roman Catholic Mariology.

I also thought about article length and it is clear that there is material about the "history of Mariology" that can be moved out to the History of Roman Catholic Mariology article. Hence, I constructed a prototype for the merged article  in this link. I will add more references to the prototype, and touch it up more, but it looks like it covers the theological ground that an article on Mariology should cover itself.

However, I do think that the discussion about the theological issues that intertwine Christology with Mariology is too brief and I will expand that later - there are topics and references that needs to be added there later. History2007 (talk) 13:07, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose. There should not be a merge that creates yet another "Roman Catholic" article.  There are too many of these POV content forks already.  Mariology is studied by other faiths, not just Catholics.  Any merger should keep the title Mariology, and contain a section on Catholic beliefs but not dominate the article or become separate.Malke 2010 (talk) 13:58, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Merging doesn't create another article. It takes two articles and merges them to become one.Chhe (talk) 21:14, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not what I meant. They should both be deleted so that we aren't having yet another "Roman Catholic" article.  They're all just POV content forks from Mariology anyway.  They should be merged into Mariology.  Not each other, thus creating yet another POV content fork.  Malke 2010 (talk) 03:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The article Mariology discusses the study of the virgin mary in general. Since the virgin mary is studied by christians, muslims, and even hindus, this article seems relevant to explain this subject matter in this broad scope pertaining to all the relevant religions. The article Roman Catholic Mariology, however discusses the subject matter more specifically as it pertains to doctrines concerning the virgin mary found solely amongst roman catholics. Your rationale is therefore flawed. Those two articles don't deal with identical topics and therefore have no basis for merging. The articles Roman Catholic Mariology and Marian doctrines of the Catholic Church on the other-hand deal with identical subjects both in title and content; and therefore should be merged.Chhe (talk) 05:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Support. Both articles talk about the same thing and so should be merged. The link provided by History2007 seems fine to me. After the merger articles titled Eastern Orthodox Mariology, Oriental Orthodox Mariology, etc. can be created to talk about these particular denomination's doctrines concerning the virgin mary. The problem with having an article titled Marian doctrines of the Catholic Church is that Catholicism is such a generic term which many groups even ironically enough some Protestants associate with. Due to these vaguenesses I think its better to deal with specifics and have a separate article for each sect.Chhe (talk) 21:30, 25 October 2010 (UTC)