Talk:Marie Harel

Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2017
I was in the middle of editing this... This article is full of awkward phrasing and weasel words and lacks citations. It has too much "legend" and too little citation. It seems like it was more interested in talking about where Harel didn't get help than what she actually accomplished. It also avoided normal vocabulary and usage by using "she" instead of a surname, and calling her an "initiator" instead of a "founder" of a dynasty. My changes are below.

Since the end of the 17th century, a renowned cheese was being produced in the Camembert region of Normandy. In his Geographic Dictionary, published in 1708 Thomas Corneille wrote: "Vimonstiers: [...] every Monday a large market is held, to which are brought excellent cheeses from Livarot and Camembert." A later legend, which appeared at the beginning of the 20th century, attributes the invention of Camembert cheese to Marie Harel with the help of a refractory priest, Abbot Charles-Jean Bonvoust, who was hidden in 1796-97 at the Manor of Beaumoncel where she worked. The legend states that he was a native of Brie and passed along to Marie a recipe for a kind of cheese with a bloomy edible rind, such as was produced in his native area.

It is unclear which parts of these stories are true; however, local custom holds that Marie Harel was in fact the inventor of Camembert cheese, and a statue of her can be seen in Vimoutiers. Her idea to individually package each wheel of the new cheese made transportation easy and is at least partially credited with the success of the product. She founded a dynasty of entrepreneurial cheese makers who produced Camembert cheese on a large scale, notably her grandson Cyrille Paynel, born in 1817, who created a cheese factory in the commune of Le Mesnil-Mauger in Calvados.

The success of the production of Camembert in the first half of the 19th century was largely due to the descendants of Harel, who considered themselves the only legitimate users of the designation "Camembert". However, beginning in 1870, other Norman cheese makers contested this family monopoly.

A legend says that Harel died in Champosoult, but it was her daughter, also named Marie (1781–1855), who died there. Justbrowsing3 (talk) 15:08, 28 April 2017 (UTC)


 * It would be helpful if you'd break this down into smaller bits so that each change (or small group of changes) could be assessed individually. I pasted your proposed text and the existing text into two separate windows but gave up on trying to catalog the differences. Rivertorch   FIRE WATER   22:21, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Padlock-silver-open.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 15:30, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2017
"was a French cheesemaker, who, according to local legend, invented Camembert cheese, along with Abbot Charles-Jean Bonvoust." should likely be "was a French cheesemaker, who, according to local legend, co-invented Camembert cheese with Abbot Charles-Jean Bonvoust."

Otherwise, it sounds like she invented the Abbot himself. 63.241.173.64 (talk) 17:16, 28 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done, more or less. I changed it to this: "was a French cheesemaker, who, along with Abbot Charles-Jean Bonvoust, invented Camembert cheese, according to local legend." That removes the dangling participle and seems slightly less clunky by obviating the dreaded "co-invented" word. Thanks for pointing this out—it was hilarious. Rivertorch   FIRE WATER   22:08, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

doodle tweet
thx Victuallers (talk) 14:19, 29 April 2017 (UTC)