Talk:Marie Louise Élisabeth d'Orléans

Rumours of Incest with father
The article fail to mention the rumours that she had a sexual relationship with her father. While this may of course be vicious slander, it is nonetheless very much known and famous in history, and must thereby be mentioned to avoid censorship. --85.226.46.248 (talk) 21:00, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The Duchess of Berry : a French Messalina
The biography of the duchess of Berry has its dark sides. Her hidden pregnancies in 1716-1719 are well known, even Saint-Simon mentions she had numerous affairs and was found to be pregnant at her autopsy, just 3 months after her scandalous confinement at the Luxembourg. The accusations of incest should also be mentioned although unlikely to be true. In historical terms the scandalouse portrait of the Duchess in the satirical songs is also significant. Like during the French revolution sex and politics were intertwined and should at least be mentioned. Most historical narratives and historical fictions about the Régence represent her as a rather promiscuous woman. Mentioning the secret marriage of the princess to Riom (or Rions) without making at least a brief reference to her reputation of French Messalina so well documented in the historiography of the Régence is simply turning history into generic royal hagiography. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aerecinski (talk • contribs) 14:25, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Please do not continue to edit these rumors into the article unless they are properly sourced with inline citations. FactStraight (talk) 20:58, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Even if fully referenced with page numbers etc. you would most likely delete them, repeating what you did to other contributors previously !!! These rumors are part of the Duchess history and they are sourced : Raunié's chansonnier historique (drawn from the Clairemabault-Maurepas collection) and the "Gazette de la Régence" are well-known sources and so are Saint-Simon commentaries to Dangeau but these sources are of course voluntarily ignored by royal hagiographers who are always very embarassed with the Duchess of Berry and thus prefer to turn her story into just another generic royal family narrative. Funny thing is much worse portraits of the duchess can be found on line (Gallica or Google books)in historical works published after 1848 and the political demise of the Orleans branch of the Bourbons. Revising out contributions entirely brings nothing to a page. It is just random vandalism not worthy of a public historian.


 * FactStraight is correct. The burden of proof is on you. Such information seriously needs a citation(s). If such information is so readily available, as you have indicated, then there should be no problem(s) referencing your additions. --Kansas Bear (talk) 12:00, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * More to the point, this article is not about the Duchesss of Berry. The morality, children & deaths of her other grandchildren aren't recited in Elisabeth Charlotte's article, but in their own articles. That's where this info belongs, properly sourced. FactStraight (talk) 22:22, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Obviously "FactStraight" you don't read over edits that you're reverting otherwise you'd find the properly sourced reference in the short paragaraph of mine you once more eliminated from the Palatine princess article. Of course the source given is in French but well English editions of the Palatine letters are even more expurgated than the French ones, leaving out any crude or "spicy" "details" seen to be unproper to publish by Victorian minded editors (eg. the clandestine pregnancies of the Duchess of Berry, or the vigour of her paramour Riom "built like a donkey")... If one were to eliminate all cross-references and possible redundancies between wiki articles this very compartimentalized view of knowledge would severely limit the use of any encyclopedia, which is to widen knowledge for the general public... Morality has to be seen within the proper cultural-historical context...The death of the Duchess of Berry was an important event and can't be ignored in an article on the Palatine... unless you want to edit out any information that might "tarnish" the standard hagiographic type of writing characteristic of royal families chronicles. AErecinski

Content
Numerous exclamation points starting with section on Dowager Duchess. Emerson 07 (talk) 07:16, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Wrong Portraits
The portrait by Gobert is not the duchess of Berry as a young girl, but her aunt, Elisabeth-Charlotte of Orleans, duchess of Lorraine. The portrait by Largillière is... I don't know who ; an unidentified lady as many Largillière's portraits. But certainly not the duchess de Berry... 82.226.245.146 (talk) 01:41, 31 October 2012 (UTC)