Talk:Marilyn Manson (band)/Archive 1

Marilyn Manson's music was cited as a motivation in the Columbine High School massacre (ref. [1]).

By whom? GWO

References
 * http://www.marilynmanson.com
 * [1] http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/bio.asp?oid=54

The citation of Marilyn Manson's music as a motivation in the Columbine High School massacre was made by one or many non-psychologists with a tendency to blame effects (listening to Marilyn Manson as a result of feeling alienated) as causes, and also an incomplete appreciation for freedom of expression.

Among the non-psychologists who publicly mentioned Marilyn Manson in connetction with the Columbine High School massacre was Senator Joe Lieberman.

Marilyn Manson's music most likely had nothing to do with the Columbine massacre, since Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold didn't listen to him. Attempts to blame him for it is most likely hysteria. - Manson has nothing to fear for the blame of the coulumbine massacre. it is just little church goes too afraid to believe that anything that their children might do is the fault of their upbringing or treatment in other places.

I dunno why this was protected, so i unprotected it. Tuf-Kat

I'm not a fan of the group or the music they make. Frankly, I think a lot of what they do and say is just to stir up the Conservative movement in this country because it generates a great deal of publicity about them. Like the old saying goes, there's no such thing as bad publicity. It keeps them in the public eye. I don't see that their music has had any sort of impact on what's lead to the various school shootings over the past decade. People identify with certain songs of various musicians, something about the lyrics or about the story a song tells or the experiences it conveys. I was always under the impression that touching the listeners on some level was the point of music to begin with. There was no brainwashing or hidden messages that suddenly forced these kids to kill anyone. During the 1980's, Ozzy Osbourne was blamed for the suicides of two teenage boys because they listened to his music, and his stuff is downright tame compared to some of the stuff Manson spews out. There was no evidence at all to suggest that Osbourne's music encouraged their suicides just as there's no evidence to link Manson to the Columbine shootings. People seem to have this tendency of trying to lay the blame for the problems in their own lifes, or the problems of society in general, on those they percieve to be "outcasts" or "evil" or just plain convenient.

Just because he's different they blame him. He lights the Bible on fire during shows so they say he's Satanist and caused it. They can't take the blame for their own monsters they created. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 15:41, 1 November 2005 (UTC) - Someone has just changed the Dita Von Teese article to say that she is Manson's girlfriend, not his wife. Are they married or not? RickK 04:11, 3 Oct 2003 (UTC)

No, they're not married. Bubblewrap 14:55, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

band vs. person
move all the personal stuff to his personal page and all the band stuff to this page and keep this page strictly about band history and other members, etc.? - Omegatron 01:38, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. violet/riga (t) 10:31, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Yup, sounds like a plan. PMC 22:51, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Suggest slightly seperating the demo releases/early material from the full length LP's, starting with Portrait. --Insomniak 05:24, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

silly question
does anyone know when and where he did the cover of Like a Virgin? thanks. --little Alex 07:35, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)

I seem to remember having an MP3 of it, it sounded like a bootlegged live recording, realy bed quality, you could barely make out the song. On the other hand he did a live cover of ...Baby One More Time (song), which was rather funny. --62.160.189.132 19:01, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Connection to gothic sub-culture
In my experience Manson has been very popular in and has strongly influenced the goth sub-culture in the U.S. Can somebody support the above claim from the article?
 * re: "the fact that Manson's music had little to no relation to gothic music or sub-culture."

Connection to gothic sub-culture
In my experience Manson has been very popular in and has strongly influenced the goth sub-culture in the U.S., perhaps even at one point being the most prominent goth music along with NIN. Can somebody support the above claim from the article?--Nectarflowed (talk) 12:26, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * re: "the fact that Manson's music had little to no relation to gothic music or sub-culture."
 * Marilyn Manson is not "gothic" and neither is nine inch nails. Nine inch nails is industrial/alternative-pop, Manson is metal/shock-rock/glam.  Goth rock and deathrock are offshoots of punk and post-punk that began in the late '70s and early '80s.  Gothic sub-culture is related to goth rock.  See | All Music entry for Goth rock for more relating to that.  Also, article on Manson (| link).  Manson is commonly mistaken for "gothic" by the media.  While, there are certainly goths that listen to Marilyn Manson and Manson gets played at some "goth" clubs occasionally, that does not make Manson gothic or give him any connection to the sub-culture.  A lot of goths listen to Duran Duran, too, after all, but I doubt anyone would call them gothic.


 * Note that a lot of goths freak the **** out because they're terrified of pop culture. Manson isn't a huge influence though.  They're more of a gateway band.  13 year olds listen to them, then if they don't drop the act after a few years they'll study further into this dark side of western culture and find what considered by elitists to be true goth.

=Mansons music composed by others=

First it was Trent Reznor, but then changed to Twiggy, who composed Antichrist Superstar (it is not clear what parts are meant by "composed"). People also claim that Twiggy "mostly composed" Mechanical Animals. I've followed Manson's work and rumors for many years--never have I heard any of these.

An anonymous editor did followup these claims with some links to interviews saved on MansonUSA.com. I scoured these interviews and found nothing to support either claim, but found plenty of examples of these albums being mainly the result of a collective effort between Madonna Wayne, Twiggy, and Manson.

Before these claims appear in this article again, can someone please paste relevant citations that support either of these claims?

Yeago 15:27, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

bible quotes
From entry: On May 16, 2001, it was announced on the ReligionToday website that Manson planned to quote the Bible at his next concert, to "balance out" his violent lyrics, "so we can examine the virtues of wonderful Christian stories of disease, murder, adultery, suicide and child sacrifice. Now that seems like entertainment to me." it's been 4 years, however no indication if it indeed happened or not. -- ( &#x263A; drini &#x266B; | &#x260E; ) 04:54, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ. On the Nobodies single, the third track is "The Death Song" performed live, before which he reads from the bible. Okay, so it's not like I own it, but I have an mp3 around here and amazon.com confirms that it is on the Nobodies single.  It goes something like this:


 * "Denver, Colorado it's been a long time coming! And you're the best fucking crowd I've seen all my life." (typical rock-concert stuff, eh? the crowd roars) "There's alot of people standing outside tonight, holding this fucking book right here.  And they want to tell me that they care more about you than I do.  So I think for those people outside can I hear a Fuck You?" (crowd roars back "Fuck You!") "And like I promised, I said I would read from the Bible." (the crowd roars) "Now let me ask you a question.  Does this sound like it's very offensive to people?  'For every one that curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death'!" (crowd boos)  "And that's not all, brothers and sisters" (cheers) "And if we can turn our bibles to Psalms . . . 'Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones'.  So let me ask you a question, who is a worse influence, God, or Marilyn Manson?" (crowd roars "God!") "And if that is not the best fucking example, God Himself killed his own motherfuckin' son!  So let's sing the Death Song kids!" (cue song intro)


 * So, in other words, I'd say, evidence. (plus, it just wouldn't make sense for Manson never to bother to get around to doing anything like that, considering how in-keeping with his 'antics' so to speak) What do the rest of you think? Phil Urich 06:01, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Mansun
I was wondering what people's thoughts are about including a mention of Mansun somewhere to assist with disambiguation between the two? I know they're not really that similar, but if someone had only heard the name spoken, they might be a bit confused? (Or, like me, they might be getting far too little sleep and be wandering around trying to find why Attack of the Grey Lantern isn't listed as an album here hahaha) --Qirex 07:59, 13 October 2005 (UTC)