Talk:Marin Čilić

Untitled
'Tennis player from Bosnia-Herzegowina but representing Croatia'.Wow,someone's jealous.He's a Zagreb resident,you can't really say now 'he's from Bosnia-Herzegowina'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Češljugar (talk • contribs) 04:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually you can, he is from Bosnia as he is born there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.233.196.18 (talk) 15:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC) He is born in Herzegovina,not Bosnia.So 'Bosnia and Herzegovina' would be correct. But he plays for Croatia and resides in it,so you can't say he's from Bosnia-Herzegovina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.3.190.197 (talk) 15:55, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I removed most of the match scores as they were making the page cluttered and hard to read, and are also not really relevant. I kept the notable ones in Acb314 (talk) 17:41, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Nickname
I think the nickname is questionable. So far as I can tell, only Brad Gilbert calls him that, and he has no discernible connection to Marin County. Leoniceno (talk) 06:11, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Place of Birth
Suddenly Bosniak nationalists have come up to put in the prologue that Čilić i s'Bosnian-Born',which is not true.He is born in Herzegovina,hence the name od political entity 'Bosnia and Herzegovina'.Area where hese is born is almost 100% Croat and they even don't feel anything towards this political entity except they have some formal duties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Češljugar (talk • contribs) 09:38, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

So,where are the admins now?Or is this run by some kind of Islamic lobby? You can't say he's 'Bosnian born' for truth's sake.This is pure sinister propaganda. The most you can say for him that he is 'Croatian tennis player born in Bosnia and Herzegovina'. 'Bosnia' is just a regional abbreviation like 'Herzegovina' is. The area where he is from has nothing to do with the region of Bosnia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.3.238.57 (talk) 09:45, 26 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey folks, despite the incivility, it does seem as if he was actually born in Herzogovina and not Bosnia, so I have changed it Oscroft (talk) 09:53, 26 January 2010 (UTC)


 * But to Češljugar and other anonymous editors, your appalingly uncivil approach to this problem is what has led to nobody listening to you. Instead of throwing insults around, calling everyone "Bosniak Muslim Nationalists" and denouncing changes as "propoganda", you should have just been polite and factual - point out the error in the article, but don't verbally assault the people who put it in - see WP:AGF (PS: I've also changed the heading of this section to something less inflammatory, to give you an example of how to behave civilly). Oscroft (talk) 09:56, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I reverted 'Originally from Bosnia and Herzegovina' because it may give a clue like he is ethnic Bosniak or naturalized Croat or something.To say he 'is born' in Bosnia and Herzegovina is enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Češljugar (talk • contribs) 10:06, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

One wouldn't want to exaggerate the significance of his place of birth, or muddy the waters too much by getting into the depths of civic vs ethnic nationality, but the article could stand to be clearer on when he moved to Croatia, when he took out Croatian citizenship, and when he changed his country-of-representation for tennis purposes. 84.203.33.162 (talk) 14:56, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 22 November 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: No move. We have a clear consensus against removing diacritics in this case. Cúchullain t/ c 16:35, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Marin Čilić → Marin Cilic – Many tennis players only have spelling sources in English newspapers, tv news, and magazines. There has been concern in the past about using sources that don't really use a lot of diacritics or foreign letters. Ana Ivanovic and Novak Djokovic are exceptions in that they also have additional sources which conclusively show that they themselves do not use those letters in English usage. And we use sourcing here at wikipedia. Marin Cilic can be additionally sourced to use the spelling Cilic on his personal twitter account, his personal official facebook account, and his own website, etc. These sources have no problem with diacritics and non-English letters yet he chose to spell his name Marin Cilic. Since it can be conclusively shown that this is how he spells his own name in English usage, the article should be titled as such (just as we do for Novak Djokovic instead of Novak Đoković). Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:44, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:TENNISNAMES and WP:TENNISNAMES2 both of which were indirectly initiated by this editor, and had an overwhelming rejection of the idea that blogs and Twitter are reliable sources for "tennis names", or for Croatian, etc. orthography. The attempt here is to create a second BLP on en.wp without a ć as was done to Talk:Ana Ivanovic (sic, see current RM discussion), and then Fyunck went through en.Wikipedia removing -ć from 100+ articles mentioning Ana Ivanović. If this RM succeeds the user presumably intends to go through every mention of Marin Čilić removing Č and ć. And Serbian Đ is a red herring, see again the other RM. Becker Boris Becker's Wimbledon: My life and career at the All England Club has "Marin Čilić", Harman Court Confidential: Inside the World of Tennis has "Marin Čilić",  Berlitz: Croatia Pocket Guide has "Marin Čilić", plus Bercow Tennis Maestros: The Twenty Greatest Male Tennis Players of All Time has "Marin Čilić", and Lonely Planet : Croatia has "Marin Čilić", and so on. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:15, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
 * More untruths. So the attack section by In ctu oculi has been taken to An/i. This is simply a move request because Marin Cilic, per his own sources, spells his name Cilic in English. Certainly we can go against his wishes and sources. That is wikipedia's prerogative. I just don't see a reason to do that. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:19, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

     
 * Oppose The website actually uses diacritics which a quick google search would have revealed in an instant. To quote:
 * I only came to catch up with the admin boards, did not think this issue is still ongoing. Agathoclea (talk) 14:24, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * User:Agathoclea last gasp perhaps, see also current RMs at Talk:Ana Ivanovic and Talk:Agnieszka Radwańska In ictu oculi (talk) 16:37, 23 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose per Agathoclea Make91 (talk) 14:46, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment to closing admin: This discussion is about the same issue as Talk:Ana_Ivanovic and Talk:Agnieszka_Radwańska. All three players have names with diacritics, but almost all English language sources spell their names without diacritics. All three of them spell their names without diacritics on their Facebook pages and their official web sites. So, please, treat those three discussions as one and don't close them with opposing results. We have to have one consensus on one issue, we can't have two opposing consensuses at the same time.  Vanjagenije  (talk)  21:29, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment Not quite correct. Two of the websites are identifying the subject with diacritics, only one does not, so only Radwańska appears am identical situation while Ivanovic doesn't Agathoclea (talk) 18:07, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * What exactly are you talking about? marin-cilic.net has a title "MARIN CILIC" at the top, while his Facebook page is titled "Marin Cilic".  Vanjagenije  (talk)  20:50, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose Agathoclea pretty much prooves his own website uses diacritics....so that whole argument is dead in the water. -DJSasso (talk) 20:20, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting. So now we don't go by what the player presents to the public for his persona... we go by how it was coded? I don't see anything but Marin Cilic. I guess I'll have to hunt down his signature. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:28, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * You were trying to show that is what they used. But that is clearly not what they use as the title of their webpage etc uses diacritics. You can't have it both ways. They are presenting as their public persona using them since they are on their official website. -DJSasso (talk) 12:40, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose because this is not really a matter of spelling distinction for most English readers (it has nothing to do with using English per se, only whether you have an English keyboard), and it helps explain the pronunciation ('chi' + 'itch', not 'key'/'see' + 'ick') that is also used in the English-speaking tennis world. Per WP:AT, the title has to be recognizable, natural, precise, concise, consistent, and common. Both titles are all that, really, and the nuances can be argued until the twelfth of never, because for some readers, the acute won't be recognizable, for some it will; for some readers any non-ASCII letter is unnatural, for some it's natural exactly because it's a foreign person; someone will say if it's precisely like in her passport, and someone will say it's precisely like in sources that tilt towards ASCII; someone will say it's consistent with all the other -ić people articles, someone will say it's consistent with some sources; someone will say it's common for diacritics to appear in the encyclopedia, someone will say it's common for them to be stripped in other sources. Lacking a serious argument to single out a handful of tennis players, I say make it so it shows up like the rest of Wikipedia, where there is never anyone complaining about the squiggly marks, curiously enough. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 17:56, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Request relist as requested above please close or relist this RM with the other two current RMs. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:36, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Support move if the article title without accent marks is available. HarrySnake (talk) 18:32, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note to closer: HarrySnake is a suspected sock per Sockpuppet investigations/AS92813.—Bagumba (talk) 12:04, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Agathoclea's facts, plus Joy (shallot)'s reasoning (the short version: all else being equal, be consistent with the rest of WP). But Agathoclea demonstrates that all else isn't equal anyway. This is the same "do 30 seconds of basic research" result as at Talk:Agnieszka Radwańska. The Talk:Ana Ivanovic case is different; so far, it appears she consistently uses the non-diacritic spelling, whatever her birth spelling was.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  14:54, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100203032512/http://www.san.ba:80/index.php?id=10145 to http://san.ba/index.php?id=10145
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090121175315/http://atpworldtour.com:80/5/en/deuce/january2009/cilic.asp to http://www.atpworldtour.com/5/en/deuce/january2009/cilic.asp

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The pronunciation
Is it redudant to transcribe "ˌ" and "ˈ"? LoveVanPersie (talk) 14:47, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, per Help:IPA/Serbo-Croatian. You can fix it yourself next time. Mr KEBAB (talk) 16:09, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140223025540/http://tennisconnected.com/home/2011/01/04/cilic-switches-to-li-ning-apparel-and-shoes/ to http://tennisconnected.com/home/2011/01/04/cilic-switches-to-li-ning-apparel-and-shoes/

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Cilic
He has 2 sons now 74.90.105.79 (talk) 02:41, 19 August 2022 (UTC)