Talk:Marine Corps War Memorial

Optical Illusion
Anybody think that there should be mention of the optical illusion believed to be built into the memorial?

I've heard that, as you walk around the memorial, the angle of the flag pole seems to increase, making it seem as if the flag is being raised in real time.

Anybody want to support or refute that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.105.172.214 (talk • contribs)
 * I heard the same thing from my tour guide when I went there so many years ago. I was surprised there's no mention of it in the article. --YbborTalk 14:27, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Day pic
An editor recently replaced the longstanding "Day" photograph with another, similar. I've restored the previous photograph, but perhaps we should talk about it. Personally, I like the winter photograph. That curve in the flag is gorgeous (and very rare to see anything as good in a published photograph. --Jumbo 04:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I've never understood why people would take a photo of a larger-than-life statue and then provide absolutely nothing in the photo to provide scale. The figures in this statue are collosal - 10 feet tall - yet the photos give no hint of their magnitude. I understand the desire to provide a clean shot of just the memorial, but wouldn't it make sense to have at least one photo with people in the shot for scale? Would certainly put the work in perspective.Michael Dorosh 19:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If you can find a free picture of good quality with some scale representation, then go for it. Just make sure it isn't "Junior in front of the big statue". The USMC Silent Drill Squad regularly parades in front of the memorial during the summer months - it would be great to have a picture of this. --Jumbo 23:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

World in conflict
Is it worth saying that it is seen in world in conflict? The game has a picture of soviet troops changing the flag to a russian one.
 * Uh, no, it's not worth mentioning. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:03, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

removed sentence about flag
I removed the sentence about how the flag is not the same as the one actually raised on Iwo Jima. While it is certainly true, it is not relevant. The memorial is to all Marines, who fought and died, not just the ones depicted in the statue. Also,, I think the current top photo is awesome. I've never actually been to Arlington, and until I saw this photo I had no idea how huge the memorial is. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:01, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

november 10th 1954,Arlington
My name is Erik Andreas Jacobsen and I am from Norway. I have a father who served with the united states marine corps. He was stationed in washington d.c in 1954 and was representing the us.marines (standing guard) under the war memorial november 10th 1954,arlington. He is very proud of having served with the marines and unfortunately a man is getting older... My question here is if somebody have some pictures from this historical event.. november 1oth 1954. My father has the original program which he treasures alot.

yours sincerely

erik andreas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.109.66.184 (talk) 20:04, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If anyone is interested in seeing photographs of the dedication, I recommend contacting the Marine Corps History Division.--KMJKWhite (talk) 03:02, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

november 10th 1954
Erik andreas Jacobsen e-mail address eajacob@online.no  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.109.93.166 (talk) 20:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Number of hands
Regardless of what de Weldon said, or what he meant by it, zooming in on this photograph  shows that there are 13 hands on the sculpture. Altho not all visible in this photo, the hands of the front three men can be designated as hands 1 thru 6. Above hand 6 (the left hand of the leftmost Marine) it can be seen that there are 7 more hands.Friendly Person (talk) 16:53, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It's the angle of the photo. One of what you called the "upper 7" belongs to the lower right Marine; he's holding his arm at an angle. If you look at other photos, you'll see this better.  bahamut0013  words deeds 19:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I can see what you're saying but I can also see what I'm saying. I don't really care but am curious - either the artist put an extra hand in for any reason, or he just put 12. The way to know would be to go there and examine it, take some photos that show the hands specifically. Friendly Person (talk) 01:11, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be nice, but I'm not headed to DC any time soon.  bahamut0013  words deeds 23:16, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I really wish people would think critically about this obvious myth. For there to be thirteen hands, the statue would have to include a disembodied hand or a guy with a third arm or something like that, which certainly would be visible from some angle and would have been photographed widely during the past 50-odd years.  This myth endures not because it's plausible, but because people find it inspiring and because it's not readily disprovable without examining the statue from different angles.  The sculptor himself found the myth absurd.  Ketone16 (talk) 16:06, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I went to the Memorial, and I think I see one reason this question has persisted. The sculpture is much larger than life, about 2:1 scale? and located on top of a small knoll. Minus a telephoto lens or climbing a tree, you can only see them looking up from below, and most of the hands are impossible to see continuously as you walk around, they get eclipsed by the bodies and heads, and sometimes where you can't see a thumb, it's difficult to distinguish from just the four fingers whether it's a right or left hand. And they are all jammed together in different orientations. My adult daughter and I walked around it several times and counted, and we both came up with 13. Neither one of us had any particular desire for there to be 13 or 12 or any other number; we just counted what we saw. I then photographed the hands carefully from numerous angles. Studying my photos, there are only 12 hands. I was counting one hand twice when I was there looking at them. Friendly Person (talk) 02:14, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Similar statues
The statues mentioned in the article aren't the only ones; I know there's one somewhere in Florida, and I'm betting there are several more in the United States and possibly other places in the world. B7T (talk) 01:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Block buried at the memorial
I'm curious about the accuracy of "The Academy is also the final resting place of Corporal Block, who was killed in action on Iwo Jima." The Academy being referred to is the Marine Military Academy in Harlingen, TX. According to "Flags of Our Fathers," Harlon Block was buried in the Weslaco (TX)city cemetary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.49.31.71 (talk) 00:54, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Original photograph?
Dear people, where is the original photograph?! It is referenced in this article, in the opening lines, with no link.!And then...there's a bunch of photographs, but not the original photograph! Are there copyright issues, or what? It's kinda silly to open the wiki article with a sentence that immediately requires you to go a-googlin' :-/ 173.73.100.254 (talk) 02:12, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * yes there are copyright issues with derivitive photos of 3D artwork. i couldn't find the original photograph, could you be more specific? Slowking4 : 7@1|x 16:38, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Old page history
Some old page history that used to be at the title "Marine Corps War Memorial" is now at Talk:Marine Corps War Memorial/Old history. Graham 87 09:28, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Designer
Although the bronze sculpture was made by Felix de Welden, the actual monument as a whole was designed by Horace W. Peaslee. He also helped design the District of Columbia War Memorial and several of the zero milestones. One source example: U.S. Marine Corps War Memorial — ★ Parsa ☞ talk 08:06, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Capital "M" marine
Well, this is probably not going to go well, but I feel I must mention it. Marine and marine corps are not proper nouns when used by themselves. "Marine Jones" is a proper noun. "Filipino Marine Corps" is a proper noun. There is no rule in English that a noun that is used in place of a proper noun retains the capital letter. I know, "Marine" is short for "United States Marine Corps," but that does not make the short form a proper noun. Further, I know the marines prefer to use a capital M. But the marines do not make the rules of English. Nor do the marines have some special insight into the proper-noun nature of the word. This is a fallacy. I direct you further to points 46 and 48 in this discussion. We have a rule on this, point 14 in this discussion of military terms. We ought to follow the rules of English. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 13:34, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The article is about the Marine Corps War Memorial and discussing the specific Marines involved and depicted. The word Marine is a shortened version of United States Marine, as you note above, so perhaps replace Marine with U.S. Marine. Disclaimer: I served in the Marines - so not a "neutral observer". Vsmith (talk) 15:38, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Truly, I understand. But gosh darn it the rules of English do not include such an exception. We could work around it if need be. I suspect the best way to do this is slowly and with general agreement. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 16:56, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * If this needs further argument, in February 2009 the New York times altered their policy on this very subject. To be consistent with guidance provided by the Associated Press, they decided their official stance was to capitalize the M in Marine. "If the term for an individual member is the same as the proper name of the organization, why not capitalize ‘Marine' just as we capitalize ‘Democrat,' ‘Catholic' or ‘Rotarian'? The new rule makes us consistent with The Associated Press, and many other news organizations..." Like Vsmith, I'll admit to the same bias. However, since the official policy of the major English-speaking news organizations is to capitalize the M, it makes sense the English Language Wikipedia should follow.--KMJKWhite (talk) 02:58, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

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Wrong Name?
According to "Flags of our Fathers" by James Bradley, the sixth man raising the flag at Iwo Jima was his father John Bradley, a navy corpsman, not PFC Harold Schultz. I am certain he is correct, as one of the flag raisers was a Navy corpsman. We need to change this in the History section narrative, and also in the media File:Raising_the_Flag_outline.svg.TexasReader (talk) 13:15, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Since the publishing of Bradley's book, it was discovered that his father was not one of the Iwo Jima flag raisers. Please see references 4 and 5 of the article for more information.--KMJKWhite (talk) 20:06, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

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