Talk:Marine shrimp farming

Untitled
Wow...just over 15 edits and I could already think of this being a featured article candidate. Absolutely amazing. -- Natalinasmpf 6 July 2005 12:14 (UTC)


 * Well, thanks. It all started with this comment of mine, and when I tried to put together a short blurb, I discovered so much material that it kept me occupied for a whole two weeks. :-) Maybe a take through peer review might be good, though. My grammar may be a bit awkward at times. Lupo July 6, 2005 12:26 (UTC)

Well, finally at last. It did take three months, but I knew it would make it. :p -- Natalinasmpf 06:10, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

The marine shrimp farming article is neutral and not biased. The links from this article work and the information provided is completely related to the marine shrimp farming. Texiasf (talk) 02:29, 9 November 2017 (UTC)texiasf


 * Sorry, but no. This is one of the most non-neutral articles within WP.  I cannot believe some of these sections and statements have been allowed to go unchallenged.  Over time, this article has been "However"'d to the point of being useless.  Too many special interest cooks, from the looks of things.  In any case, this article, as are so many others within WP now, are essentially worthless to the casual reader.  I will have to go elsewhere to get an understanding of Shrimp Farming.  Very frustrating.  The fact that there are so many partial yet overlapping articles, including this one entitled "Marine Shrimp Farming" - is preposterous.  Where else are shrimp going to grow?  In the desert?  Of course they're "Marine".


 * The following statement under the "Sustainable practices" section is just one example of how bad this article is: "Although shrimp farming has disrupted social structures..." Really?  Says who?  No citation. Totally unchallenged.  Just a completely one-sided blurb that apparently doesn't bother anyone.  SMH  WP, what happened to you?  98.194.39.86 (talk) 18:44, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Selective breeding, domestication
I'd like to know (and eventually find in the article) if and how shrimmps are selectively bred to improve their growth, fit to intensive farming etc.. if they already have been modified, if they or some of the species are to be considered as domestic or on the way to be so. salmon for example are being domesticated.

sustainable shrimp farming
I think that the issue of sustainable shrimp-farming is not problemized enough on this page. Sustainable traditional shrimp-farming is nothing new. However, as far as I know there is no evidence that sustainable shrimp farming is feasible for export-oriented production with current technologies.


 * I beg to differ. I think the article quite clearly states what the problems are. It doesn't claim that sustainable intensive farming was possible, but you cannot deny that at least a few programmes to improve the situation such as the World Bank/NACA/WWF/FAO programme do or did exist. Granted, their impact so far appears to have been very minor: I have not found any information about any big improvement anywhere... The article explains the ecological problems and offers pertinent links to more in-depth discussions. If you have more recent information about e.g. that World Bank et. al. programme, feel free to add it, but source the statements and try to present them in a factual, unbiased way. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia article, not an opinion piece. Maybe the reason that you think the article was not harsh enough is the fact that my personal opinion of shrimp farms is rather negative, but I tried not to let that show through. Lupo 18:27, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Social impacts
It has been pointed out at the FAC discussion that the "positive sides" of shrimp farming were not mentioned. I plan to add a new "Social impacts" section, but from what I've found so far, it won't be exactly "positive", either. Are there any positive facts about shrimp farming? In third-world countries, they seem to generate profit only for a small minority, while causing losses for the general population. The old issue of external costs...

Here are my links so far, feel free to add more, especially if you do find positive mentions! (The list is completely unsorted and unpruned, and I haven't really reviewed any of the articles pointed to yet. Just the results from some Googling and a quick glance to check whether or not it might be relevant.)


 * http://www.vds-afs.be/iran.htm
 * http://www.eurofish.dk/indexSub.php?id=595&easysitestatid=237207286
 * http://www.citizen.org/documents/ShrimpReportWeb.pdf
 * http://www.aquaculturesolutionsaustralia.com/Sustainable_Aquaculture.html
 * 3w.heureka.clara.net/gaia/shrimps.htm
 * http://mrl.cofc.edu/pdf/techreport85.pdf
 * http://www.bcas.net/Publication/BDEnvNews/BENSeptember2002.pdf
 * http://www.dawn.com/2005/06/21/int6.htm
 * http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/GD12Ae01.html
 * http://www.citizen.org/documents/FishyCurrencyWEB.pdf
 * http://www.oceantrust.org/working%20docs/sustainability%20review%20shrimp.pdf
 * http://www.ansinet.org/fulltext/pjbs/pjbs6242058-2067.pdf

Lupo 10:37, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Reviewed links:
 * McClennan, C.: White Spot Syndrome Virus – The Economic, Environmental and Technical Implications of the Development of Latin American Shrimp Farming, Master's Thesis, Tufts University, 2004.
 * Reviews the development of shrimp farming in three Latin American countries: Ecuador, Peru, and Mexico. Places an emphasis on economic developments, with a focus of the effects the Whitespot outbreaks of the late 1990s had. Also highlights some of the differences between Ecuador (an early adopter, tropical country, weak government control, shrimp farming controlled by large companies) and Mexico (late adopter, sub-tropical environment, strongly regulated business, shrimp farms mostly owned by locals or local co-ops). The basic thesis is that disease problems led to a growing recognition amongst shrimp farmers that their current practices were indeed self-destructive, and that they for economic reasons alone realised that they had to develop more sustainable ways of farming. Also mentions the financial problems caused by diseases (wipe-out → no income → cannot pay back loan rates → debt rises → farm folds). The boom period&mdash;high profits were possible in the 1980s and early 90s, but apparently only because the negative external costs (i.e., the environmental impacts) were ignored&mdash;is over. WSSV led to generally more government regulation of shrimp farming and mangrove protection laws, although enforcement is a problem. The discussion of Peru, a minor producer nation, is rather short. The paper has some nice overviews of the most important viral diseases (the same as in the article), with graphics showing their spreading. Lupo 07:01, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Texiasf (talk) 02:23, 9 November 2017 (UTC)texiasf Some of the links provided are no longer available and can not find the information provided.


 * DeWalt, B. R.: Social and Environmental Aspects of Shrimp Aquaculture in Coastal Mexico, paper presented at the Mangrove 2000 conference in Recife, Brazil, May 2000.
 * Overview of shrimp farming in Mexico, basically agreeing with McClennan. Mexico seems to be a unique case due to the strong government control over land and sea use rights, which were liberalized only in the 1990s. Before that only the "social sector", which DeWalt explains as "agrarian reform communities (ejidos), communal organizations, or production cooperatives that are comprised primarily of resource-poor individuals", were granted the right to acquire or use land for shrimp farming. Private enterprises could only enter the market since 1990, and even then have to arrange themselves with the ejidos from which they have to buy the land. In general, shrimp farming in Mexico has developed slower than elsewhere, but has also managed to avoid to worst errors committed in other countries and seems to operate on a level that is far less detrimental to the environment than e.g. the operations in South-east Asia (or Ecuador, cf. McClennan). The main reasons are:
 * Most farms are in desert coastal regions, where no mangroves grow.
 * Farms are spread out more, not clustered so tightly together.
 * Proactive laws helped inhibit some of the worst practices from the start.
 * The late entry of the private sector.
 * Note: McClennan points out two more interesting facts: first, Mexico has a large domestic market for shrimps, cushioning the economic losses of WSSV in international trade (at a disease outbreak, shrimps are harvested right away, before they die, at sub-optimal sizes that attain lower prices). Second, shrimp farming in Mexico really expanded only in the last 10 – 12 years; the time may be too short for long-term negative effects to surface. Lupo 07:46, August 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * Kuljis, A. M.; Brown, C. P.: A Market Study of Specific Pathogen-Free Shrimp, Center for Tropical and Subtropical Aquaculture, CTSA publication #112, Hawaii 1992.
 * A bit dated, but gives a good summary of the early history of shrimp farming in Thailand, Ecuador, Indonesia, and the Philippines. Reminds me that we should mention in the "Ecological impact" section that current hopes of the industry for overcoming the environmental and disease problems lie in
 * The development of "Specific Pathogen-free" (SPF) Broodstock and using that exclusively (currently, many farms still rely on wild broodstock).
 * The development of recirculating closed-circuit farming systems with no or minimal water discharge. That's for the future, though, current efforts include using intake filters with very fine meshes and lining ponds with plastic to avoid direct contact with the soil. Any such measures are costly, though, and not suitable for extensive farms. Some farms also have special "effluent treatment ponds" where the contaminations are aupposed to settle at the pond bottom before the water is discharged. I don't know (yet!) what other kinds of treatments are done in the cleaning ponds or how many farms do have them at all.
 * Generally using less intensive farming methods, such as having only two brood cycles instead of three to give the ponds a resting period (also see McClennan).
 * We'll have to explain what SPF means, though. Lupo 09:01, August 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * FAO/AFFA: Report of the FAO/Government of Australia Expert Consultation on Good Management Practices and Good Legal and Institutional Arrangements for Sustainable Shrimp Culture, Brisbane, Australia, 4-7 December 2000, FAO Fisheries Report No. 659, 2001.
 * The report has been prepared in cooperation with the World Bank/NACA/WWF/FAO Consortium Programme. A very dry read, not directly pertinent to what we need here (except maybe Annex C, which is a list of proposed "good management practices" for shrimp farming). Lupo 09:43, August 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * Hempel, E.; Winther, U.; Hambrey, J.: Shrimp Farming and the Environment – Can Shrimp Farming Be Undertaken Sutainably?; World Bank/NACA/FAO/WWF Consortium Program on Shrimp Farming and the Environment, 2002.
 * This report of the World Bank et al. programme has been prepared by the KPMG Center for Aquaculture and Fisheries. It looks like a very good source. KPMG is one of the largest accountancy firms and not exactly known to have an environmentalist bias. I feel it fairly considers the social and environmental aspects of shrimp farming, without distorting either the benefit nor the problems. I have used this report for many facts in the "Social changes" and the "socio-economics" sections. Lupo 12:31, August 25, 2005 (UTC)


 * Barraclough, S.; Finger-Stich, A.: Some Ecological and Social Implications of Commercial Shrimp Farming in Asia, United Nations Research Institute for Social Development (UNRISD) Discussion Paper #74, 1996.
 * This is a literature survey undertaken in 1996. While it may miss out on some more recent developments, it is still a valuable source by an independent organization. The report focuses on purpose on the problems of shrimp farming and tries to point out some research directions. I was initially very reluctant to use this as a source at all: because of the survey design, it reads very biased. However, many of its statements are backed by other, more recent reports (e.g. the KPMG one), and where that is the case, but the treatment here seemed clearer to me, I have used it as a reference. It is also a handy secondary source to keep the reference list from growing too much&mdash;it's already uncomfortably long. Lupo 12:31, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

Links
Lupo, here are a couple links to NPR (National Public Radio) stories relating to shrimp farming:


 * "In Vietnam, Shrimp Farming a Glimmer of Hope" (Weekend Edition, May 1, 2005)
 * "U.S. Shrimpers Seek Protection from Imports" (Morning Edition, January 1, 2004)
 * "Shrimp Farming" (All Things Considered, February 14, 2001)

These are all audio files so if you have trouble listening to them let me know and I'll try to find transcripts. I'll also look for more links - this is just one source I remember hearing.


 * give some idea of profits for peasant farmers in Thailand.


 * World Bank documents] on shrimp farming projects - includes this pdf file with a summary of 35 case studies.


 * THIS PAGE (by World Bank, WWF, and FAO) is great.

-Bantman 15:34, August 16, 2005 (UTC)


 * Indeed I cannot listen to your audio links&mdash;I have never found out why, but for some reason I have no sound on this crappy computer. Sorry. NPR transcripts appear to be pay-per-view. Anyway, I prefer written publications. TV and radio broadcasts are so ephemeral, and it's basically just another person stating something. One would need to assess the veracity of any such information in each case, and the danger of arguments along the lines "this or that station is too liberal/too conservative/left-wing/or whatever" is just too big for my taste. (Note that I don't know NPR at all; this is not some disguised criticism of that particular station.) That's why I prefer peer-reviewed scientific publications (they generally tend to be written more carefully), or summary reports like those from the World Bank you pointed out, where one may also safely assume that they are reasonably fair. In some cases, I also settle for publications from other sources (renowned newspapers, Nature, or even web sites of others (such as Rosenberry's)), but only if the facts stated there are corroborated by third parties. For undisputed facts I'm ready to use any odd web site that explains it best. Lupo 09:27, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

I found a link giving more information about shrimp farming in Ecuador https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD//view.php?id=6918 Texiasf (talk) 02:40, 9 November 2017 (UTC)texiasf

Reorganization proposal

 * Introduction
 * History
 * Fundamental techniques (to replace "technologies")
 * "The fundamental techniques of shrimp farming have been developed to foster the development and growth of shrimp from egg to maturity in a controlled environment..."


 * Hatcheries
 * "Hatcheries represent the first stage in shrimp farming, deploying breeding stock to lay eggs and raising thsoe eggs to the nauplii or postlarvae stage..."


 * Nurseries
 * "Nurseries help postlarvae transition to adulthood by..."


 * Growout
 * "Growout represents the final stage of shrimp farming, where young adults are prepared for market by..."


 * Varieties of shrimp farms
 * Extensive (I would suggest using "low-intensity" instead, as in American English "extensive" in the sense of the opposite of "intensive" is an unusual use and potentially confusing)
 * Description and defining characteristics of low-intensity shrimp farms


 * Semi-intensive
 * Same


 * Intensive
 * Same


 * Species
 * Species A
 * Species B
 * etc.
 * Diseases (subsection of species, as they are species-dependent)
 * Economics
 * Ecological impacts
 * See also
 * Footnotes
 * Refs

Above structure proposed by User:Bantman, August 16, 2005, 20:33 (UTC).

Well, to me it looks like you just move the technology section up (before species) and introduce subheadings for the different types of farms. I think having the species before the technology is important. We have to explain the lifecycle before going into techniques because once you understand the lifecycle, the separation into hatchery, nursery, and growout immediately makes sense. Otherwise, the reader is left wondering. Could you explain why you want to move that section up? Maybe I can then see the light... Diseases are not all species-specific, several affect multiple species. I'd keep it as a separate section (before economics, too), but it could be expanded by covering in more detail the impact they had on farming, as well as the lessons learned. Another reason to keep it as a separate section is that diseases not only affect species, but also have a great impact on the economy. Concerning terminology: I would stick with "extensive", it's apparently one of those technical terms you mentioned as not being explained (Rosenberry uses it, too, and he's an American expert); we could explain it by writing "Extensive farms, i.e. low-density farms typically using traditional methods,..." or some such the first time the term is used. Lupo 06:42, August 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * This is a bit of a sticky wicket. I don't want to rewrite the article myself, but I don't want to make this a case study of English composition either.  Basically, this article is about shrimp farms, not shrimp species.  That means that what shrimp species are farmed should go after a discussion of what shrimp farming is.  This is also not a book, so we can't dedicate whole sections to laying the background to the main topic before we get to the main topic.  With adequate linking and a well-written introductory paragraph, we can make it immediately clear that farming stages correspond to life cycle stages in an integrated way as I outlined above.  I believe my outline would provide a much easier read that flows logically from topic to topic without requiring the reader to slog through background information before he gets to the actual subject of the article. - Bantman 17:30, August 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * So you want to address the "how do you farm?" before explaining the "what do you farm?"? That strikes me as illogical. You'd either get forward references for terms like "nauplii" or "postlarvae" (and I think forward references in texts should be avoided), or you'd just link such terms and explain them in other articles, but then people would ask for brief inline explanations anyway for sure, or you'd get a scattered explanation of the lifecycle, explaining a bit here and a bit there. While this is not a book, the article isn't oversized and won't be so even after I'll have addressed your questions, and even size constraints are no reason to use terms before defining them. With the current structure, there is one logical place for explaining these things ("lifecycle" as a subsection of "species") and it even offer a nice bridge to "technologies". Lupo 06:02, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

I just noticed that now we've both claimed our respective outlines were more "logical" than the alternative :-) Oh well... I guess we just disagree. I won't change the global organization of this article. If your proposal, which would require a substantial rewrite, is to be tried, you or some third party will have to do it. Lupo 06:07, August 18, 2005 (UTC)


 * Another user also thought "species" should come after "technologies". I've changed it accordingly, but I'm not particularly happy with it. Lupo 09:15, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Unexplained technical terms
Bantman, you mentioned in your FAC objections "undefined technical terms" and promised to address this issue here. Which technical terms do you feel are undefined or need more explanation? Lupo 06:02, August 18, 2005 (UTC)


 * Sorry for my absence - real life got busy. Here is a list of undefined technical terms:


 * broodstock (lead section)
 * Hmmm, yes, well, hmm, agreed. Will lead to discussing SPF broodstock, though.
 * fry (history and geography; link is dab with very little useful info)
 * Oh no. If I replace it with "larvae", I'll have a forward reference again. But asking me to write the article on fry, too... really! I'll see what I can do.
 * IHHN virus (farmed species)
 * Oops, a forward ref. Is explained an linked later on, I'll rephrase or just link it.
 * farm-gate value (economy)
 * Price at the farm gate, i.e. the price the farm gets, not the price you'll pay in the store. Will see how to explain that, if I'm lucky, I can just link it.


 * Another question - the animal densities are listed per square meter, but water is volumetric; i.e. cubic meters. Animal densities should be per cubic meter.


 * Brr. 'Scuse me :-) No, certainly not! Adult shrimps are benthic animals, i.e. they live at the bottom! Methinks I'd better explain that somewhere... I'll check that the desities for nauplii and postlarvae in "hatchery" and "nursery" are m&sup3;, though: there they should be volumetric! Lupo 19:33, August 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * -Bantman 16:50, August 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * All dealt with. Lupo 09:13, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

FAC leftovers
Still to answer:
 * Impact on shrimp fisheries? (from Bantman)
 * I'm unsure as to how detailed this should be treated. Needs to distinguish between impact on local fisheries in countries where large-scale farming is done and impact of shrimp imports on the fisheries in consumer countries. Also would need to cover the impacts on local coastal fishery of other species (sometimes suffers) and on broodstock fisheries (suffered heavily because of the trend to hatchery broodstock). Lupo 13:15, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * Market discrimination of farmed vs. wild shrimp? (from Bantman)
 * Could go in a section "The product", which should also explain what happens with the shrimps after they are harvested. Might touch on consumer health issues. Lupo 13:15, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

I somehow fear that both these points could get quite large. The article is now at 51kB, it shouldn't grow much anymore! Lupo 13:15, August 25, 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm not happy with the lead-in of the "farming methods" section. I've got a new version in the works, and will probably also work over the history section; it could use some slight expansion. Maybe even a world map showing where there are shrimp farms, together with the year the country started export-oriented shrimp farming. Lupo 06:36, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * I've improved (or so I hope) the "farming methods" part, the rest is still in the works. Lupo 09:47, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Language nits
The lead para uses "shrimp" and "prawn" without the 's' for plural, but most of the rest uses 'shrimps'. Also, "growout" is either BritEng (or CwE), or else is a technical term...is 'rearing' or 'raising' pond only AmerEng, or would one of those work as a compromise? 198.104.63.140 02:21, 12 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll check about "shrimps". As to "growout": this seems to be a technical term, it is used in many publications on shrimp farming. Lupo 15:48, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The plural of "shrimp" can be either "shrimp" or "shrimps", both are correct. I wonder if there is a distinction like "fish" vs. "fishes", i.e. using one for a collection of individuals and the other when referring to multiple species of shrimp... Lupo 07:56, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Additional perspective
A nice overview that may be worth working into this splendid Wikipedia article is at: Primavera, Jurgenne H: "Mangroves, fishponds, and the quest for sustainability." Science 310(5745):57-59, 7 October 2005, doi:10.1126/science.1115179 Myron 01:35, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


 * That's even on-line here (1062kB PDF)! I'll read it and see if it contains any angles on the topic we haven't covered yet. Lupo 15:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It's a three-page empathic personal account of a Filipino marine scientist who has been working on the topics of mangroves and aquafarming, in particular shrimp farming, in the Philippines since the 1970s. It gives a brief summary of the issues and generally agrees with our article. I have not found any new angles. She confirms the points made here: social disruption (in the Philippines, most shrimp farms are owned by a few wealthy, influential families, not local owners), ecological problems, law enforcement problems, etc. The silvofisheries mentioned by her are also mentioned in the World Bank/NACA/FAO/WWF report; these are still very much in the research stage and are an attempt to develop low-impact, small-scale aquacultures within mangrove areas without clearing the mangroves. Whether that approach is ever amenable to large-scale, export-oriented shrimp farming is uncertain at best. The essay is also available at the Science Magazine Global Voices series (probably will be moved to in November 2005), together with a nice little slide show. Since the essay is not a peer-reviewed publication and does not contain any references itself, I feel it is not suitable as a reference for our encyclopedia article, but it might be worth adding to the "External links" section once the URL at Science Magazine has stabilized. Lupo 07:23, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Version 0.5 nomination failed
This article is considered to fall outside the scope of the Version 0.5 test release, since this version only includes a limited number of articles. It is now held ready for a later version such as Version 1.0 nomination. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 03:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

In the news...
The January 2006 newsletter of the USMSFP, the U.S. Marine Shrimp Farming Program, mentions this article as "an extensive entry about shrimp farming", "complete with various links written by several within our industry. It’s a great resource to direct wouldbe shrimp farmers." Lupo 16:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Nauplius photo
I understand this is a featured article, but I saw the photo of the shrimp nauplius in the Crustacean article, where it was labelled as a prawn. The same is true of the Nauplius article. Is the photo labelled wrong?--Crustaceanguy 00:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The terminology is not strict. See Footnote 1. The photo shows a nauplius of Fenneropenaeus chinensis, commonly called "Fleshy prawn", "Chinese white shrimp", or "Oriental shrimp". See Penaeus. Lupo 07:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Dead links
I have removed some dead links, but note that every link to ShrimpNews.com seems to be dead -- which doesn't even touch the question of whether they were any good to begin with, since it appears to be one guy's newsletter. --Calton | Talk 01:33, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * On the Rosenberry (ShrimpNews) links, go judge for yourself: I've re-added links to the archived web pages for those of his pages that didn't work anymore (several still work, so not "every link is dead"). I have also re-added the link to Hossain/Lin; it isn't dead at all and works perfectly for me. Lupo 07:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Tons/tonnes
I changed tonnes to tons, in case that matters. Dazz (talk) 05:14, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It does matter. Read tonne and ton. Lupo 06:59, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Adding more topics on shrimp Culture - Technical Based.
kyo4eva@msn.com (Herman)

I hope this will help you to further u to be nominated to be 0.5 version. I will definitely be on a look out for this website. as I am quite new in using wikipedia, is there an email that I can email you my article that could help ur article topics more ^^. If you need more information just let me know, because I have my own Prawn farm and I can take as much pictures as possible needed to help you. I hope that I will hear from you soon. Here is my friendster website, if you like to take some of the pictures just let me know. http://www.friendster.com/haaman I hope that we can keep in touch, because i think you are very good in developing this article to way more Complex ^^ Kyo4eva 15:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've sent Herman an e-mail. Having better images would of course be great! Lupo 07:59, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Moved from elsewhere on this page by Lupo 07:55, 8 October 2007 (UTC):


 * Dear Lupo,


 * The long waits are here. I have emailed you some pictures and articles on the prawn farming.


 * I will send more pictures in a 48 hours time.


 * I have given you the permission on editing the .docx documents that I have sent to your Gmail.


 * Thank you for ur understanding. ^^

Kyo4eva 15:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I have added some of your images. Lupo 14:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Feeding The Shrimps - Editing
Herman Gunawan (kyo4eva@msn.com)

Edited Document: While extensive farms mainly rely on the natural productivity of the ponds, more intensively managed farms rely on artificial shrimp feeds, either exclusively or as a supplement to the organisms that naturally occur in a pond. A food chain is established in the ponds, based on the growth of phytoplankton. "Fertilizers" and mineral conditioners are used to boost the growth of the phytoplankton to accelerate the growth of the shrimps. Waste from the artificial food pellets and excrements of the shrimps can lead to the eutrophication of the ponds.

Artificial feeds come in the form of specially formulated, granulated pellets that disintegrate quickly. Up to 70% of such pellets are wasted, as they decay before the shrimps have eaten them. "The shrimps are fed two to four times daily;" the feeding can be done manually either from ashore or from boats, or using mechanized feeders distributed all over a pond. The "feed conversion rate", i.e. the amount of food needed to produce a unit (e.g. one kilogram) of shrimp, is claimed by the industry to be around "1.2–2" in modern farms, but this is an optimum value that is not always attained in practice. For a farm to be profitable, a feed conversion rate below 2.5 is necessary; in older farms or under suboptimal pond conditions, the ratio may easily rise to 4:1.

Additional Information: Pellets lost all its fragrance and nutrients after 3.5 /4 Hours. a. 6AM, 11AM, 2PM, 5PM, 8AM, 11PM/12AM (This is usually its routine schedule) a. Distribute more feeds on the deepest part of the pond. b. Distribute more feeds on the sides, compared to its center. (That's usually where the waste from artificial feed      and excrements of the shrimps are). c. Powder formed of feed usually mixed with the ponds water for easy distributions. (imagine the flying dusts LOL, <-- u can skip this part LoL) Kyo4eva 15:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) 1. The usage of too much fertilizers could result stunted growth of prawn. (Not recommended, unless in serious condition)
 * 2) 2. Good Pellet Feed retain its shape and would only disintegrate in about 2.5 Hours.
 * 1) 3. FCR - Feed Conversion Rate = ???? Kg of Feed : 1 Kg/lbs of Prawn. (Fixed). FCR= 1.4 - 2.0.
 * 2) 4. FCR = Lower Profit Yields.
 * 3) 5. The Shrimps are fed 2 to 5 times daily.
 * 1) 6. There are certain practices on Feeding the Shrimp:

Farm Species (new Terms In Indonesia)
Herman Gunawan (kyo4eva@msn.com)

Additional Information: Kyo4eva 15:28, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) 1. It's Called "Udang Windu" in Indonesia/ Malaysia.

Marketing
Herman Gunawan (kyo4eva@msn.com)

Kyo4eva 15:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) H.O.S.O. -> Head-On Shell-On
 * 2) H.L. -> Headless
 * 3) B.P.D.T.O. -> Butterfly Peeled Deveined Tail-on
 * 4) P.T.O. -> Peeled Tail-On
 * 5) P.U.D. -> Peeled Undeveied
 * 6) P.D. -> Peeled Deveined - Pink


 * Please see Shrimp marketing... Lupo 15:17, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you get an account here? It's free and safe. Also, could you please sign your contributions on talk pages by appending ~ at the end of the text before saving? The software will automatically replace the squiggles by your username (or IP number, if you don't have an account) and a timestamp. That makes it much easier to keep track of who wrote what when. Lupo 15:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

And did you already see id:Tambak udang? Maybe you could also help improve that Indonesian article... Lupo 15:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm... I do know that particular page exist, though I prefer to write them in English... usually Indonesians are inconsistent in upgrading information unlike those people that are enthusiast for i.e. you and me, and the rest of the gang.


 * Plus I am not that good writing in my own Language. btw do you have A.I.M. or similar programs?Kyo4eva 15:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * What is A.I.M.? Lupo 15:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Instant Messaging Service: For example: Microsoft Windows Messenger (MSN) YahooChat! something like that. Kyo4eva 06:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, stupid me! No, I don't. I just do e-mail and Wikipedia talk pages. :-) Lupo 07:49, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Pyrite Additional Information
(Additional Information): Factors that triggers Pyrite to ooze out (before, during or after harvest):

1. Hot day /weather. (it could happen anytime of the day) Ps: I wasn't able to check it during night time). 2. Triggers by Sunlight, if its cloudy, not much pyrite is seen. 3. Swamp based area which its soil is made by the decomposed mangrove trees or similar products. During Day of Culture (D.O.C.) of prawns, the pyrite will be in a form of liquid floating like a layer of oil.

Pyrite can never be disintegrated, but they are ways of reducing it: a. Intense Aeration, thus creating Bubble Foam (evaporates faster). b. Using limestone to create a wall barrier, preventing pryite to ooze up the ponds.

Use of small amount of Fertilizer (Urea, T.S.P., or N.P.K.) actually helps to hasten the growth of phytoplanktons, thus reducing the factor of Pyrite oozing out.

Kyo4eva 15:30, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Looking for sources...
 * Charlchai Tanavud, Chao Yongchalermchai, Abdollah Bennui, and OmthipDensrisereekul: The Expansion of Inland Shrimp Farming and Its Environmental Impacts in Songkla Lake Basin, Kasetsart J. (Nat. Sci.) 35 : 326 - 343 (2001); p. 330ff.
 * A.L.M. van Wijk: Evaluation of water management strategies for sustainable land use of acid sulphate soils in coastal lowlands in the tropics, 3 rd Programme for Life Sciences and Technologies for Developing Countries, Technical Centre for Agricultural and Rural Cooperation ACP-EU, 1999; pp. 57–62.
 * from Can Tho University, Vietnam.
 * From glancing at these (and some others I found), the "pyrite" problem is actually an problem of the water becoming acidic (low pH) due to the sulphuric acid generated by the oxidation of the pyrite. It also appears that many tropical (mangrove) soils contain between 2 and 5% of pyrite. Lupo 15:58, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the resources and documents. Usually from what I had experienced over here, PH level do decrease, but most of the occurances are during day time, probably during the process of pyrite oxidation. if you say that 2-5% of tropical Mangrove soils contains pyrite, it means most of the mangrove swamps contains pyrite ^^ which is true. Most of the areas that I cultivate here which is about 400 acre of lands.. most of them contains Pyrite. Nevertheless, if the ponds water have so turned green (so called ready for prawn culture), sunlight won't be able to reach the bottom of the soil, hence less oxidation process occur. This is very intersting and helps out alot and yea I can link it to my everyday learning process ^^. Kyo4eva 06:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Watch out. I didn't say that "2-5% of mangrove soils contained Pyrite". I wrote that "many mangrove soils contain 2-5% of Pyrite". That's subtly different :-) I'll think about how to integrate this Pyrite stuff, but not just right now, I'm a bit busy at the moment. I'll also have to read up more about what exactly triggers Pyrite oxidation, and why. Sunlight is still unclear to me, oxydation should not require light but oxygen. BTW, I found these sources by googling for +pyrite +"shrimp farming". Lupo 07:48, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * BTW, I think limestone) is alkalic. My completely uneducated guess is that limestone does not actually form a "barrier" but just is employed to raise the pH again. How exactly do you use limestone to counteract the effects of "pyrite contamination"? Spread powdered limestone on the pond bottom before flooding? I don't think you're really lining the ponds like a swimming pool with limestone walls and floors (the only way I can think of creating a physical "barrier")... Fertilizers (containing ammonium nitrate) would be weak acids, though, I think ... Lupo 08:17, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The chemical equation for pyrite oxidation is here (p.18 of 41). The process releases 2SO 42- and 4H +, which would indeed combine to Sulphuric acid (H 2 SO 4 ). Sunlight is maybe a secondary factor, as it influences the temperature and (through evaporation) salinity of the pond, both of which have an effect on the amount of dissolved oxygen in the water. Warm water can hold more dissolved oxygen than colder water, hence more opportunities for pyrite oxydation to occur, which would line up with your comments above (pH lower during daytime). Lupo 08:17, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hah! Looks my guesses concerning liming the ponds went into the right direction. See Wilkinson, Simon: "The use of lime, gypsum, alum and potassium permanganate in water quality management", in Aquaculture Asia 2(2), May-June 2002; pp. 12-14. ISSN 0859-600X. Lupo 08:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Another uneducated guess on fertilizers' effects on Pyrite oxidation: fertilizers would increase the plankton growth, which would again consume oxygen (I think). Less oxygen &rarr; less pyrite oxydation. But of course: too much plankton &rarr; not enough oxygen for the shrimp... looks like a delicate balance act :-) Lupo 08:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Scrap that, phytoplankton is photosynthetic, generating oxygen. So, the effect of fertilizers is still unclear to me. Lupo 08:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * In any case, going into this much detail in this article is probably not the best idea. It's getting too technical. Do we have an article on Water quality management somewhere? Apparently not... we only have Water quality... I think we should start a new article on Water quality management in aquaculture and treat this pyrite oxidation (and other problems) in detail there, and just add a minor mention or brief summary here (with a link to that new article). Lupo 08:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * See also Acid sulfate soils. Lupo 09:28, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

BINGO! what you did is a THEORITICAL RESEARCH and what I did was a PHYSICAL RESEARCH, this is a good Combination. Thank you!. Your information is really very useful as in it does help to proof or backup my statements^^. Technical Information: from the sides are not acidic (depends on the soil PH).
 * 1) 1. Application of Lime at night does help to reduce the PH fluctuation (Apply it on the water ponds).
 * 2) 2. Application of Lime before D.O.C. at the bottom of the ponds... this will help to increase the PH.
 * 3) 3. During rainy seasons, lime is spread over on the pond's side thus during rainy season, the water that is being washed down
 * 1) 4. Application of Lime at the tip where the pond's water level meet with the side of the pond's soil. To slightly cover the pyrite oozing to the pond.
 * 2) 5. What you say is true.. that fertilizers consume oxygen, which means less pyrite oxidation. This maybe absolutely true and triggers the stunted growth of prawns...... *Insufficient D.O. (Dissolved Oxygen) triggers stunted Growth.

I will try to start a new topic^^

Mysis
I found this article very interesting, having read it right after today's featured article on krill. The subsection "Life cycle of shrimp" calls the third larval stage "mysis" (or myses in its plural form), yet mysis redirects to the article on Mysidacea, not a developmental stage, but rather a different group of species than the Penaeidae described in this article here. The article on krill mentions the larval stages "nauplius, pseudometanauplius, metanauplius, calyptopsis, and furcilia". The article on nauplius lists zoea, mysis, metanauplius, calyptopsis, and furcilia as "other developmental stages of crustaceans". It's possible that this is all correct (except for the misleading redirect, probably), but it's confusing to an uneducated reader such as myself. Unfortunately, I found no article on crustacean life cycles. Anyone know how to untangle it? ---Sluzzelin talk  07:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed, that's confusing. Solved by changing the two links to go to Mysis (larval stage) instead. We don't have an article on it, yet. Lupo 10:26, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Brazil vs. Ecuador?
In the opening paragraph, it says Brazil is the largest producer from Latin America. Under the section "Economy", the chart clearly shows Ecuador as consistently producing more every year. Perhaps that line should be edited, or removed completely? Either the chart or the sentence is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Z06 (talk • contribs) 15:39, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed; thanks for pointing it out. In 2005, the latest statistics available were those of 2003, and in that year, the Brazilian production was indeed much higher than that of Ecuador, so the lead was arguably correct when it was written. But in the following years, Ecuadorian production apparently recovered, overtaking that of Brazil again. Lupo 17:15, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Featured Article concerns
This article was promoted in 2005 and no longer meets the featured article criteria. There are many dead links to sources, sources that need page numbers and sections and paragraphs that lack citations. Parts of the article are in need of updating to the present year. This is only a sampling of the problems that need fixing and this isn't an in depth review. The issues pointed out need addressing or a featured article review will be needed. Brad (talk) 05:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Sudden 2009 production decline in Bangladesh
The production table in the Economy section shows a general increase in production for all countries through the entire time span, save for a few exceptions. Bangladesh has a fairly consistent production increase from 56,000 tonnes in 1998 to 67,000 in 2008, ending a year later with a sudden drop to 8,000 tonnes in 2009. Is this a typo? Something like 68,000 seems more reasonable, unless for whatever reason Bangladesh decided to end shrimp farming all of a sudden. If this is the case, perhaps it should be mentioned somewhere. Dafydd018 (talk) 17:00, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The source for that appears to be this which does state that the '09 production was 8,000 tonnes. It is possible that they made a typo, but for us to change the figure in the article we need to find a source with the possibly correct 68,000 tonnes figure. Actually... this may explain it:

"Bangladesh, meanwhile, has been under a self-imposed ban on export of shrimps to the EU, a decision taken on May 2009, after 54 rejections were made from late 2008 to early 2009 due to a 'Rapid Alert' notice, which circulates information on food safety problems among European nations."


 * This also says that Cyclone Aila hit shrimp producing areas in 2009 which would have affected production. SmartSE (talk) 17:19, 24 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Excellent, thanks for your quick response! Dafydd018 (talk) 17:39, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

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