Talk:Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games/Archive 1

Is this for real???
Are you sure it's not like an April Fools joke or something? 206.66.217.143 19:47, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is real. -Sukecchi 19:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's so real, it's real. Besides, it's not April Fools yet.Willy105 21:25, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Besides...look at the art ad official logos. The fans couldn't do stuff like that legally.GrandMasterGalvatron 21:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The homepage is hosted on Sega's database. I doubt it is fake, unless Sega and Nintendo have done a team up joke.

undefinedOBEY STARMAN 21:33, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's fairly close to April 1st... let's wait until the 14th or so (2 weeks after)... if it's proven to be true, then this may very well be the best year in gaming history.  RingtailedFox • Talk • Stalk''' 01:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * What reason does anyone have to think that it's fake aside from that fact that it's close to April Fools? DanPMK 01:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, we have the very famous Super Smash Bros. Melee April Fool's joke, where they said Sonic and Tails were supposed to be unlockable iin SSB:Melee. Then, we have rumours going about that Sonic is in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, then he's not...then even the game MAKERS don't know if he's in...magazines are leaking... It's all speculation. Besides, Nintendo Magazine announces NiGHTS into Dreams... for the Wii (a sequal a decade later...), then this? it's suspicious. it's like Sega and Nintendo are catering to all the gamers' wishes and dreams... a little *too* well. That's why i think it might be a hoax. i hope to the powers that be that this is false, but i'm cautious this way.  RingtailedFox • Talk • Stalk''' 02:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Why would Nintendo and Sega pay through licensing with ISM and each other just to play it off as a April Fool's Joke? Also, the Sonic and Tails Hoax was made-up by EGM ONLY. It wasn't mentioned on the Nintendo's or Sega's website at all. magiciandude 02:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You have a very interesting point on that one, Magiciandude. The only possible explanation i can think up is to drive hype for sega's games (sonic's failing series in particular), and nintendo's wii console. Though they could both EASILY afford the licensing fees, you're probably right on this being the real deal.  RingtailedFox • Talk • Stalk''' 02:21, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Glad I can be of service. :) magiciandude 02:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

There's also the fact that SEGA of japan has put this on their official site. April fools day is not a holiday in japan.

The second and third sources on this page are on the oficial sega and nintendo site, and the logo has the official bejing 2008 logo on it, so in order for this to be an april fools, you would need sega, nintendo and the olympic people's co-operation. It involves way to much time and effort for an april fools joke. Also, it isn't april yet, why would they announce an april fools day joke 4 days early, it makes no sence. Mattyatty 15:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * To make it all the better. That's the best time to try and make an April Fool's Joke. In fact, I initially planned on changing my Shadow site into a Silver site. However, skin problems screwed it up for me. Regardless, it seems that it's actually legit with all the evidence towards it. --69.210.144.31 21:57, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

According to One member of CVG Staff This is not a hoax it's 100% real Tiswaser 21:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It's an april folls joke alright. Otherwise, the world is going to hell. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.49.209.110 (talk • contribs).
 * The game is real. -- ReyBrujo 18:09, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems to me like a BIG fake. If it was a Mario game, Nintendo would develop it. That's common knowledge. And why would they pair Sonic and Mario anyway? Seems very odd. Bowsy (review me!) 18:22, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You'd be suprised by the number of non-platform mario games not developed by nintendo. The Mario party games are developed by hudson soft, most of the sports games are by camelot, Super mario RPG was by square, the paper mario's were by inteligent systems, and the mario & luigis by AlphaDream. I could keep going. Also, there is way to much evidence to suggest it is not a joke. Mattyatty 18:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Intelligent Systems is a first party studio (meaning it is 100% owned by Nintendo), but your point still stands. There is zero chance that this game is fake, especially since it was Nintendo and Sega who announced the game (not a magazine or website). TJ Spyke 22:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I was actually hoping this was a joke of some sort. It seems like a ridiculous way for the two properties to combine. An Olympics game? Come on... This was probably done at the behest of the Olympics commitee so someone would actually BUY the game. The S 23:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been more than two weeks, so it obviously can't be a joke. The Olympics was probably chosen because it would have enough different events to put Mario and Sonic on an even level. JDub90 15:47, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

uh 9 tailed fox nights into dreams IS getting a sequel.look at gunstar heros.that got one.and sonic is gonna be in brawl —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mariofan1000 (talk • contribs) 11:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

More information
You can find more information here, about how the game came to be. Also, remember that this game will be for Nintendo DS too, so it should be included in their list. -- ReyBrujo 03:50, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Another interview at GameDaily. -- ReyBrujo 03:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Article name
Please do not recreate "Mario&Sonic at the Olympic Games". We don't follow the trademark typography (check Manual of Style (trademarks)). The correct article name is "Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games" because of our naming conventions, since & should not be used in titles. However, since the article history is already split in this and Mario&Sonic..., I am not moving it for now. -- ReyBrujo 04:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, someone needs to fix the one called "Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games" so it can be used for the article, and the Mario&Sonic can eb redirect..InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 04:43, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

FOR GODS SAKE, STOP FUCKING UP THE ARTICLE!!!! THE ONE I MADE IS BIGGER, AND I MERGED IT. THIS IS PISSING ME OFF. NOW LETS FIX THE ARTICLE! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 04:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice, I was not expecting an admin to come this fast :-) Now we need to do a history merge between Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games and Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, and redirect the former to the later. I would suggest also semi (or fully) protecting both pages with ampersand for now (as new users may want to write the article in the other name because "that is how the game is really called". -- ReyBrujo 04:46, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

You eman the one i made being kept and the older one with less info being merged into mine? Okay. InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 05:03, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge discussion
Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games.

Yes, that's a "." at the end. The histories of the two articles (note: not this talk page) need to be merged before anything else happens. Chris cheese whine 04:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, the name of the game is "Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games" (which it is currently at). TJ Spyke 04:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, this should be merged into the one i made, which is bigger and egtting screwed up. InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 04:50, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You are the one causing this whole mess. The article on this game existed longer than your version (which appears to be about 1 hour old), and this one is the CORRECT name. You screwed up the page, messed up the edit histories, caused the page to be locked, and are acting like you own it. How many rules are you trying to break? TJ Spyke 04:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * By convention, history merges are performed to the older location (i.e. here). Chris cheese whine 04:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, so we have four articles: Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, Mario&Sonic at the Olympic Games, Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games and Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games.. We are missing Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. and Mario&Sonic at the Olympic Games. ;-)
 * So, first we decide the game title, then redirect all the articles and talk pages of the ones that do not have history to the title we decide. -- ReyBrujo 04:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The NOA press release and Sega press release  both use "Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games". That is also what the logo uses. TJ Spyke 05:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Obviously the title is not "Mario&Sonic" because there are SPACES BETWEEN THOSE FREAKING WORDS. So at any rate, that better not be the final page name.--Bishop2 05:03, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * InvaderSora argues that that is the right title because it is the typography of the logo. Anyways, if we all agree that this is the correct name, I can make a history merge (but only if we agree in the next 15 or so minutes, it is already too late, history merges are usually tedious, and having just one editing either article while merging messes everything again. -- ReyBrujo 05:05, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Spaces aren't always clear in logos. For example, the logos in every Mega Man game has it spelled "MEGAMAN". TJ Spyke 05:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way, my note at AN is here, in case you need an admin to do the history merge or unprotect the articles. -- ReyBrujo 05:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The history merge does not need to wait. Currently both pages are protected, so there should be no intermediate edits to mess things up as long as the redirect created is itself protected. Once the history merge is done, so that people can hash out the contents, the protection can be downgraded to moves only. But the history merge needs to take first priority. Where it is merged to is irrelevant, but I suggest this location rather than the other purely for seniority. Chris cheese whine 05:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Not to mention that this is the correct title of the game. To put it anywhere else would be incorrect. TJ Spyke 05:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * But once the page is deleted, the protection stops. Basically, we delete a page, move the other to the old place, and then recover all the deleted edits. And then comes the manual work, doing a diff between every version to get sure the newest version has all the edits, making the article even longer. I don't have that much time now, but if by the time I check this again the history merge is still not done, I will gladly do it. -- ReyBrujo 05:18, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Longer article is better
I don't give a shit if it's a older article. Info and size is what matters. I said VERY CLEARLY that the article is mine AS IN I CREATED IT!!!!! IM TRYING TO EGT IT TO THE RIGHT NAME, BUT I CANT BECAUSE OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 05:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * InvaderSora, please read Ownership of articles, and calm down. -- ReyBrujo 05:05, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll calm down when you READ what i POSTED. "MY ARTICLE" as in I CREATED IT, which i DID. InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 05:07, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * No, you are trying to get it to the WRONG name (as I have shown). So rather than creating a duplicate article and redirecting the old one (which is AGAINST THE RULES since it messes up the edit history), you should have edited the current article (which is at the correct name). BTW, shouting and saying "I want the article MY WAY" and ignoring policies and guidelines will not help your case. You just got unblocked a few days ago (with the admin saying the next one would be permanent). You have not provided anything to support you. TJ Spyke 05:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, now do you understand that there was another article already created hours before yours? -- ReyBrujo 05:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, i don't give a shit. The one i made is bigger. Bigger comes after age. InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 05:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * No it doesn't. And mergers are done to the CORRECT title (which is not yours). TJ Spyke 05:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, that is a problem. You are basically dismissing the contributions of many people just because your version is bigger. Imagine if I come tomorrow, write a longer article, and delete yours because mine is longer, how would you feel? -- ReyBrujo 05:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

If it was bigger and more info, Go ahead. And you're telling me (Talking to TJ now) that if a article came after another one, and was bigger, the older one would stay? And i try to egt it to the correct title, but i cant because of them. READ THE ENIRE SECTION< BECAUS EI AM TIRED OF REPEATING MYSELF.InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 05:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The older page is the one that uses the correct name of the game. Please read on how to edit an article, you should edit the existing article (not create a seperate one at the WRONG TITLE and then redirect the older page, destroying the edit history). TJ Spyke 05:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, because there should be one and only one article. Of course, ideally the new content from the later article should be merged into the older one, and we get the best of both worlds. Chris cheese whine 05:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I must ask: what the hell does age of an article matter? ANd read my other posts, because i am done repeating myself to help you be lazy.InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 05:18, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you ignoring others posts? The CORRECT name of the game is "Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games", which is what the original article was. All other variations should be redirects. BTW, "your" version is about the same length (except for the original research that "some" people thouht it was a April Fools joke). TJ Spyke 05:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Everything. You should have been adding information to the older article (that's why they're editable in the first place), not creating your own in competition.  Chris cheese whine 05:21, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * InvaderSora, every edit we do is released under the GFDL license. And the license states that anyone should have access to every version. When you create a completely new version, yet use content from previous versions without acknowledging the source (in example, copying and pasting the infobox, or some other text, external links, quotes, etc), you effectively go against the spirit of keeping track of all the changes. Instead of creating a new article, you need to expand the existing one. If you did not know one existed, it is fine. But to try to delete the old one because the new is better/longer/whatever goes against our own license. -- ReyBrujo 05:21, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I DIDNT SEE THE OTHER ARTICLE WHEN I MADE MINE. AND FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME< I TRIED TO FIX THE TITLE. WILL YOU STOP AND READ? InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 05:23, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * What you should have doen was turn the article you started into a redirect to the existing article (not the other way around, and NOT thorugh a cut and paste job). Other people tried to fix your mistake but you seem to not want it done. Here is what should (and likely will) happen: the two articles will be merged (including edit histories) into the current title (which is the correct title). TJ Spyke 05:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, everyone calm down. Let's just get the history merge done so we can start discussing which bits of which articles we use, and where it goes. We can't do anything while we have two lots of article history. Chris cheese whine 05:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I wont calm down 'till people start reading. And it was already merged. InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 05:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You need to take a break. We have explained to you why you are wrong and what will happen. TJ Spyke 05:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

YOU need to read. InvaderSora- The Irken Invader With a keyblade. 05:32, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Until InvaderSora agrees to merge both articles at this location, we can't do anything. Reviewing the newest article history, this diff shows that the old content was copied into the new article, therefore what was in the article before is the content that does not exist in the old article. There are some edits done by others (like RememberMe?) who must be moved into the old page, but nothing more. We may just copy the new additions in the old article and redirect the new one to the old one. -- ReyBrujo 05:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * We have InvaderSora's agreement, and have done ever since they clicked the "Save page" button and licensed their contributions under the GFDL. As I understand it, this agreement cannot be revoked. Ever. Chris cheese whine 05:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not talking about his contributions, but his opinion about the correct name and the procedure to execute. Remember, we don't only try to do the right things, but also to agree in consensus and to educate if necessary. It is of little use to do something if the user does not understand why that happened, or when there is a probability of having to handle a similar situation in the near future. -- ReyBrujo 05:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The name is irrelevant, since the histories need to be merged before the page can be moved. The procedure is well-defined, and there clearly has been some effort to educate on this page.  This is the point where we consider our duty to fellow editors fulfilled, and our duty to readers at hand.  Chris cheese whine 05:46, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * it's true we should give everybody their say before making a major change, but surely invadersora's points are negated by breaking various wikipedia policies (Ownership of articles, Civility, Profanity)? then again, we're all uncivil now and then. Djchallis 16:50, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I say just put it to a vote as to what the title should be and just leave it that way for now. --76.199.4.41 22:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * What vote? There is no doubt, the name of the game is "Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games". The press releases from Nintendo and Sega both confirm this. TJ Spyke 22:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * InvaderSora, stop swearing. This site is for all ages, you know. And in case you have some sarcastic remark, i'm 11 years old and I read this stuff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.108.43.239 (talk • contribs)
 * Um, Sora was indef blocked over a month ago. TJ Spyke 04:18, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Protection tag
My time is up, so I will add the protection tag to both articles to let casual readers know the articles are locked. Note that this article will be visited very often in the next few days, so we need to solve this issue as fast as possible. We don't want new contributors to leave because of the current conflict. -- ReyBrujo 05:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

History merge
I have merged the histories of the two articles to Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games as that title did not include a full stop at the end (per WP:MOS). Please continue to discuss the best title for the page and move it to a new location if needed. WjBscribe 18:24, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Sonic Cult
Sonic Cult has hacked some info off of the Sega site, is it ok to put that up here?Mavrickindigo 14:29, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It depends on what the information is and how we can cite its veracity. --Bishop2 14:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * We cannot use information obtained this way. We went through the same thing with a screen saver found on the Diamond and Pearl website. The screen saver verified three english names of three Pokemon, but since it was obtained by deconstructing the website, rather than officially being revealed by Nintendo, we couldn't use it. -Sukecchi 14:39, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Why can't we use it? Thanos6 20:20, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * For one, they have no proof that they didn't fake the screens. TJ Spyke 20:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Then that's the reason we should use, not because it wasn't "official." If something is unofficial but can still be verified, we should use it. Thanos6 20:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Except that "unofficial" can also be seen as "speculation", which is unallowed on Wikipedia. - Disaster Kirby 20:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That's too bad. What's the info, anyway? The only thing I see on Sonic Cult is a download of the official press packet. That's not really "hacking," even if they aren't really press. It's still official release stuff. --Bishop2 14:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I do believe that it's a confirmation of more characters. In fact, it reveals nine Sonic characters, and four Mario characters (the hack was off of the Sega site, after all). I have heard that this is actually in relation to a 'History' sort of thing, detailing stuff in the histories of the series, but I could be wrong, as I haven't seen the actual info itself--I only heard of it from elsewhere. --69.210.144.31 04:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If that's the Sonic cult I think it is, I don't trust it. Lesser Shadow 04:54, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Online
This source claims that this game will be online: Is this woth mentioning in the article. Something like "Use of the nitendo wi-fi connection has been mentioned, but it currently unsure whether this refers to the DS, Wi or both versions of the game" may work. Mattyatty 14:49, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean it will be online (although it probably will, and would make me even more excited for the game). Elebits also uses the NWFC, although just for trading levels with other people. TJ Spyke 21:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

publisher
does any one have a link that proves the game will be published by nintendo in japan and sega in america?70.225.145.209 11:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Quite a few sources have stated this. I do recall that press releases and interviews have confirmed that Nintendo is publishing in Japan, while Sega is publishing in America/Europe. Note that the main development is by SEGA Sports, but other companies are helping as well (Nintendo obviously one of them), and Shigeru Miyamoto being the executive producer/supervisor of the game. --Ultima 19:12, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, the press releases themselved stated this. Nintendo is handling it in Japan and Sega in North America/Europe (no word on who will do it in Australia). TJ Spyke 21:04, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Release Date?
A couple of EBgames around me are saying that M&SatOG is coming out 11/2/07 in the USA. If anyone would be willing to find out if this isn't just a "placeholder date" before we tack it up there> Shamanic Enzan 16:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Game companies always give speculation dates for games that have no release date yet announced. We cannot go by this information at all. Once we get a press release or a new announcement, and once every major gaming site start showing off the exact same date, then we may add a release date. For now it's just 'Holiday 2007.' --Ultima 18:31, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * All I'll say is that IGN reported it as Christmas. That is all. 195.195.15.250 14:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)Mojanboss
 * Sega and Nintendo are only saying "Holiday 2007", so that's the only date we know. TJ Spyke 18:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Scott Burns
I don't think it should be included in the article, but just for clarification - Scott Burns is the voice of Bowser. Then again, Bowser hasn't been confirmed, so there's absolutely no reason at all to mention that Scott Burns will appear in the article. JeffreyAtW 16:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

If Bowser does appear, I'd expect Donkey Kong, Dr Eggman, and Metal Sonic to have some role too, as these are similar characters. I'd also think the roster might include Amy, Peach, Shadow, Wario, Rouge, Toad, Blaze, Waluigi, Silver and Diddy Kong. Notice the ratio of Nintendo to Sega I've used is 50/50. Digifiend

Bowser as been comfirmed and so as Eggman and Peach Cream as been comfirmed too in case you so not know a kid on a website said he has posted rumors about it being ported to the gamecube in 2008 and will be the systems FINAL game please do not get mad MountainD 12:46, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I doubt Silver will be used as he is a new introduction to the Sonic franchise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.72.54.162 (talk) 09:32, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Quick question about the developer
Isnt' it really Sega of Japan that's developing this game? That's what I read from interviews involving the game. Not that it matters, but just some food for thought. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 15:53, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Sega of Japan is the main developer, but Nintendo also has people in Sega Japan to help with the game (including Miyamoto). Rumors also have hinted that a company called 'TOSE' is working on the game, as well. --Ultima 02:37, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, I think read somewhere that Sega Sports is also contributing to the game. But I can't remember exactly where I found it! >_< magiciandude (Talk) (review) 01:06, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Perhaps we should partially protect this article or something similar. I just saw tons of characters listed on the list. Ironically, whoever did it didn't even change the amount of confirmed characters above. It still read 'six characters' (though I re-wrote it to explain that there were six characters TOTAL with three from each series). I went to go and revert it myself, but someone else fixed it up first. --Ultima 20:19, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, so much for that. Borincano and I have been reverting and reverting the vandalism, but it keeps coming back. How do we request protection? I don't know how to do it... --Ultima 20:24, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It won't be protected because it's just one user. However, we can request a block, which is what I'm going to do. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 20:47, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Content disputes are not vandalism; the IP was making a good faith edit. You are correct to remove it, but you would probably have better luck keeping it off the page if you ask the IP editor civilly to stop and explain why, rather than slapping threatening and inaccurate vandalism warning templates on his talk page.   If it continues to be a problem, report the article to WP:RFPP for it to be semiprotected for a day or two.  Neil   ╦  21:11, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Characters
Who removed the characters section? I even had a confirmed source in the form of a magaznine scan here. Mariofan 17:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Just where is the magazine scan from? -Sukecchi 17:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

You should sign in when making edits and a magazine scan is not enough nor should you list all the characters to take up half the article.  FMF |  contact  17:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry. Should we make a seperate article listing all of the characters when they are officially announced? Mariofan 17:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The scan is of GamesMaster. It looks legit, but I think that we should wait until an official confirmation before adding the characters to the page. --69.210.119.49 19:51, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I find this article hard to think of being any more than a promotional article. The list of characters doesn't include four of the six already confirmed characters (Luigi, Yoshi, Tails, and Knuckles), which is an odd thing to not include, and the content of the article is written in a jokingly fashion. In my opinion, this isn't legit information. Di saster Ki rby 20:02, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

E3 is coming, and according to the list of games that'll appear in E3 from GameSpot, this game is one of them. So let's wait before we can confirm it's credibility. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 20:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, if or when we do get a laundry list of characters in the game, at most we should put something like "Mario, Sonic, Luigi, Knuckles, Yoshi, Tails and other various characters from both franchises will be playable".  FMF |  contact  21:21, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * After all, it will be mentioned in their respective articles, am I right? Also, I'm still not sure if the character section should be put back with the inclusion of new characters.magiciandude (Talk) (review) 04:51, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Over at cubed 3, their are pictures of both versions. The characters confirmed are Tails, Mario, Peach, Sonic, Robotnik, Knuckles, Bowser, Luigi, and (I think) Cream. Links are: http://www.cubed3.com/screens/1144/ = Wii version. http://www.cubed3.com/screens/1220/ = DS Version. Djcs410319 02:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Odd that Amy and Wario aren't mentioned yet. Digifiend 10:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Amy has been confirmed in this official Sega Fact Sheet, so I put her in the article. Mariofan 00:32, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Cosmo and Cream
They are clearly in this screen, why aren't they confirm? pic with Cream and Cosmo--User:NFAN3&#124;NFAN3 18:29, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * 1. Cream is confirmed.
 * 2. That isn't Cosmo, that's Luigi. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.157.115.162 (talk • contribs).

Cosmo isn't even in any Sonic games, that character is exclusive to the Sonic X cartoon. Digifiend 09:14, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * are there anymore Characters like that can be unlocked or are does all of them.--DarkFierceDeityLink 04:38, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Debate: Nintendo or SEGA?
We all know this game is a collaborative effort between Nintendo and SEGA. However, who does hold more credit to the game? It cannot be equal.


 * Who was the person (from which company) who had thought of this concept in the first place? (Despite the fact this game is very likely made as a fan service for both Nintendo (Mario) and SEGA (Sonic) fans alike.)


 * Nintendo is made to publish the game in Japan, so it will be officially a "Nintendo game" for the Japanese. However, SEGA will publish the game in the other territories, so it will be officially a "SEGA game" for the rest of the World, which is a much bigger audience. Therefore, should the game be considered more SEGA than Nintendo?


 * There's the fact that Mr. Miyamoto, a Nintendo employee and Mario's creator, is supervising the project. This might be more of a Mario game than a Sonic game. Therefore, should this game be considered more Nintendo than SEGA? Hope(N Forever) 08:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Sega is the one who concepted the idea in the first place. When they gained the rights to base a game used to promote the 2008 Bejing Olympics the first character they thought of using was of course, Sonic. But, they think that just a Sonic Olympics wouldn't sell well, so they asked Nintendo permission to use their character Mario. Nintendo agreed and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games was born. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.157.237.33 (talk • contribs)
 * Uh-huh, that is all original research unless you have proof IP. Anyways, what does it matter? Both Sega and Nintendo will co-own the game (due to both working on it and IP's from both being in it). TJ Spyke 23:15, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's Proof —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.157.237.33 (talk • contribs)

New info
http://wii.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=10434 Anything in the article worth putting? magiciandude (Talk) (review) 04:45, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The article does indicate that more than twenty characters will be in the final game. That probably could be added. --69.210.114.245 05:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

ScreenShots
Should we put shot inside the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr.Willison (talk • contribs)
 * I'll do it. -dogman15 05:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

New Image
Are we going to use a new image for the articel? Because the one with Mario, Sonic, and the Olympic logo has been taken down. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 07:01, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd probably just wait until the official cover for the Wii version is released and use that. 81.1.64.2 10:26, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks like someone restored it. Digifiend 09:15, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks like someone removed it. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 23:22, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

whoa...
I am not a member of wikipedia, but I noticed that the movie on IGN had a 1280x720 version available only to insiders (which I couldn't watch), could this mean that this game will have HD compatability? the only thing stopping this is the wii's small framebuffer, and there is probably a way around that, just putting it out there — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.69.86 (talk)

Boxart revealed?
Found this at GoNintendo. http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/marioandsonicattheolympicgames_2.jpg

magiciandude (Talk) (review) 06:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

There's a similar boxart featuring the Wi-Fi logo, and an E rating. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.23.177 (talk) 20:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

New Gameplay Trailer
Here is a gameplay trailer I found, the original source is G4TV, but this links to YouTube. Charmy the Bee can be seen in the background, possibly indicating that he may be a referee. Shy Guy is also shown in the background before the race starts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaEO6zJ2Uzw magiciandude (Talk) (review) 03:55, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Characters
Playable:

Sonic:Sonic,Tails,Knuckles,Amy,Dr. Eggman,anyone else?

Mario:Mario,Luigi,Peach,Yoshi,King Bowser,anyone else?

Non-playable:

Sonic:Cream,Charmy,Espio,anyone else?

Mario:Toad,Lakitu,Shy Guy,Toadsworth,anyone else?

Should this all be added to the article? -SLJCOAAATR


 * I noticed that not all of this is in the article,anyone object to me fixing it?-SLJCOAAATR —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Some possible characters would be Wario, Waluigi, and Shadow due to flags showing their symbols are in the audience. They may also put in characters like Donkey Kong, Silver, Vector, I dunno. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)


 * Why does this matter? Certainly all the 20+ characters that will be in it do not need to be mentioned. FMF  19:04, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * btw, sign your comments properly.  FMF  23:42, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Some possible characters would be Wario, Waluigi, and Shadow due to flags showing their symbols are in the audience. They may also put in characters like Donkey Kong, Silver, Vector, I dunno:I agree but,we'd be attacked for spectulation...-SLJCOAAATR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.185.115.236 (talk • contribs)

We are not putting a character list because it would make the page too long. Besides, the characters confirmed for this game are already mentioned in their representative articles (or section). magiciandude (Talk) (review) 02:25, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

That's like saying that it's not worth putting a list of characters that are playable in Smash Bros.!-SLJCOAAATR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.190.114.189 (talk) 14:58, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

To expand the development section
Hi, you may have noticed that I've been making too much comments on this page, however, that is because I would like to see this article get a GA status. So have I an idea to expand the developement section. The section could expanded to explain on how this game to be. I've seen some interviews explaining on how this game was made. For example, as far back as 2005, Yuji Naka hinted a Mario and Sonic game for the GC. and that Sega said how they recieved license from the ISM and their decision to ask Nintendo. So, what do you think? magiciandude (Talk) (review) 02:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I found this which pretty much says its false, but check/contact IGN if they actually have stated such infomation, unless you can find that issue of NOM-uk.  FMF  23:41, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I don't think I'd be able to get that magazine issue seeing as it never stated which issue it was. Besides, I was just trying to make an example. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 02:25, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

This article needs to be protected
There's too much character vandalisim going on. --Coconutfred73 15:29, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

New playable characters
Wario, Shadow and Blaze. You can see them in this trailer. Rhonin the wizard 18:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I guess we can add the characters not shown in the article picture in the caption until we get a full character screen. Also, is a list of sporting events fine now or should we wait more? Magiciandude 20:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

No Silver,but i saw Daisy.-SLJCOAAATR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.190.114.189 (talk) 21:00, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Wario, Daisy, Shadow, and Blaze were visibly seen in the new trailer. In addition, Waluigi is confirmed thanks to this screenshot... Cyberlink420 00:55, 18 September 2007 (UTC) "...other various characters from both franchises will be playable" covers all of those. Unless they are their own separate article, do you see a single GA or FA with a character list? Unless someone provides another way to mention the characters without doing something like this, drop it. Honestly, as the games near completion, focus on improving the aspects of Wii and DS gameplay instead.  FMF  01:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ask yourself for example, ability wise, "what exactly distinguishes Robotnik from Sonic?" or "is there a difference from using Bowser over Sonic"? How does gameplay differ using *insert character* over another? Find those answers and insert what is relevant, this may in turn, open up the opportunity to include other characters into the article (using prose). Nevertheless, every sentence in the second paragraph under "gameplay" that mentions a sporting event will need to be rewritten eventually.  FMF  19:32, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * So would a screenshot of the character select screen with all characters be fine? Magiciandude 05:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That can be included too, with the appropriate caption.  FMF  15:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Just because Walugi was shown doesn't mean he's playable, he could be a villain. (If they are stupid enough to make a storyline here.)But he take a look at DDR: Mario Mix, that had a story and Walugi! Claycrow 15:43, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Replaced image
I replace the footrace image with the playable character screen shot. However, I also mentioned that each character have their own stats, which makes other characters than each other. Any objections or changes that can be made? Magiciandude 19:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If that is every character playable, it should be deleted, as it could be considered a spoiler. Cheeze MasterCheeze Master —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 00:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * So? In general, spoilers are acceptable (see WP:SPOILER). Besides, I doubt Nintendo and Sega would release screenshots of hidden characters before the game is even released. TJ Spyke 00:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Plus Wikipedia is not censored.. Magiciandude 00:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

The way they organize the characters could mean that there might be 24 characters in the final game, because it will exceed 20 characters, and have 3 of each franchise as a different type. For example, each type will have 3 Mario and Sonic characters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.23.177 (talk) 03:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, actually, it wouldn't exceed. 4X4, that's 16. 4 more, 2 Sonic and 2 Mario characters and 20 down. Say, Charmy and Espio are IN the game somewhere, if Vector's playable, maybe they will be too. Then, Dry Bones and birdo for MArio's side. Each one could go to a different type. In one, it could be 3 Mario and 2 Sonic characters, then the next could be 2 MArio and 3 Sonic characters, then the one after that 3 Mario and 2 Sonic, then finally 2 Mario and 3 Sonic.

Just to point out something, you didn't put a fair use rationale description thingy. Cheeze Master 21:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)Cheeze Master

Actually I did put the fair use rational description. I've stated that illegal copies could not be used without the author's purpose and that it doesn't restrict the owner's ability to sell this game. Magiciandude 22:38, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You also have to state where you got the picture from and what article uses it (that second one is stupid, I know, but i've had several of my own images tagged for that and required me to say which articles used them). TJ Spyke 22:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * K, take a look now, is it fine now? If not, then let's save room in this article talk page and talk about it in the image talk page. Oh and, thanks. Magiciandude 23:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It looks good, but the fair use tag is still there. Cheeze Master 21:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)Cheeze Master

With the announement of the Mii's being playable, I'll replace the image soon once a screenshot of the character list with the Miis is shown. Magiciandude 00:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, never mind, I'll hold that off for now since Miis are already mentioned in the article. Unless someone wants to replace now instead. Magiciandude 01:32, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

DS/Wii compatibility
Just like how Pokémon D/P can work with Battle Revoltion, I was wondering if the DS version can work with the Wii version the same way.

I also hoped this was developed by Camelot... they could have allowed you to make a character in the DS version... 168.12.253.66 22:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No details have been announced. Camelot Software isn't the only company that can do that. And this isn't a messageboard, this page is for discussing improvements to the articel. TJ Spyke 00:53, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Can we see a list of characters?
Can we please see a list of characters now that we got some more info on the difference between them? Pretty please!!! Wolly da wanderer 01:24, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a picture showing most of them already. In order to keep the article in good quality, a list should not be added.  « FMF »   01:53, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Look at many articles: lists of characters are shown. I don't see why it must be kept off, just because there is a screenshot of the menu. If a screenshot was so better, then why aren't all game articles (with multiple characters) setup like that? One little list wont prevent the article from improving to a good article. RobJ1981 04:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem with a list is the huge gap it creates. The screenshot containing all the characters is perfectly fine. It looks better too. -Sukecchi 11:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What huge gap? I've seen plenty of character lists well formatted on video game articles, and there is no gap. RobJ1981 13:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * All you have to do is move some pics around to avoid the gaps (i've had to do this many times in wrestling PPV articles). TJ Spyke 21:41, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There is 16 characters playable (8 from Mario and 8 from Sonic). 8 people in each column should work just fine. There could be hidden characters, but the table can be adjusted when that information is revealed. I added the table of characters, and it appears fine. I didn't list non-playables as I don't see that being very useful (as many games have NPCs, and they don't always show much importance). Thoughts? RobJ1981 15:34, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I suggest leaving the screenshot now. And 'IF there are secret characters, like...Espio or something. Then instate a list of characters. If we fail to reach an agreement on this...we'll have to vote. -Sukecchi 15:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The screenshot is enough when the lists just states every character on it. If we include the list, all we're doing is repeating the same information twice. Dengarde ► Complaints 16:17, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I suggest avoiding a list of characters all together. Take Super Smash Bros. and Super Smash Bros. Melee for example, they avoid lists completely but give an overview of the similarities/differences between characters and any other main features. There simply is no need for a full list of the characters. Crimsonfox 17:03, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * FYI, there is a list of SSB characters: it's done at the series level at Super Smash Bros. (series).
 * I think, once it's understood if there are and what the secret characters in the game are, that will influence the character section. First, since all these characters are not unique to the game, a prose list would be much better than a table or even a screenshot (remember, people may translate this page to non-english wiki's, the screenshot text will not be translated).  If the cast gets rather large, say, more that 10-12 characters from each series, then I would definitely say that "Common characters from the Mario series, including Mario, Luigi, and Peach, and from the Sonic series, such as Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, are represented in the game.  Together, there are XX playable characters."  --MASEM  18:29, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I knew there was a list there but I was using it as an example for the fact that it also has a large cast something similar to this one. Crimsonfox 18:48, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, unlike that one this article has a better chance of at least getting to GA (after release). All characters are already mentioned in some form in the article. The only lacking information about them is how each type of category they are all placed in affects gameplay. How about we move on to the subject about how to fix up "gameplay" (esp. that last paragraph) instead of a unnecessary lengthy discussion about transforming the article into a game guide?  « FMF »  23:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * A character list isn't a game guide. Game guide content is codes, tips on playing and so on. A playable list is perfectly fine. RobJ1981 13:01, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It can be based on why it is included. This is about one title, not a whole set of games like the aforementioned. Naruto: Clash of Ninja (series) is a better example, from what I can find it seems to be the only fighting game to make it to at least the GA class.  « FMF »  23:18, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * One game or many games: it's the same thing. A table of characters is useful for a series, but it's still useful for one game. See many wrestling games: they have lists of playables and I see no problem with them. I would imagine some of those are GA, or close at least. RobJ1981 01:06, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't normally agree with Rob, but I do agree with him here. It would be useful for the article, especially for people who might not know every Mario and Sonic character just by looking at the pic. TJ Spyke 01:12, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Random third party moment! *ahem*  I think there should at least be a mention in the article of the characters, even if its only in two sentanes.  A complete list seems a little unnessacary since all the characters exist in other games, but a sentance or two would serve fine.  Zemalia 15:48, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Did we reach a decision on this? I can't recall if we did. Someone added a list... -Sukecchi 13:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I added a list of characters in the character screen shot page instead. Not everyone knows all the characters so I added there instead. It's a lot better than adding it in the article page. Magiciandude 17:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I think a list of characters would be good. Then there would be "type" information, sorting characters, like Sonic > Speed, Amy > Skill, etc. And/or a cast list, stating all of the voice actors. Just my opinion. :O Aileza (talk) 21:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Australian Release Date
The official Nintendo of Australia website states Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games was going to be released on October 22nd, 2007. It even says it is Out Now, as, of course, it has hit October 22nd in Australia. However, I went to buy the game, and no store had Mario & Sonic. Explain, please. - Poke DP 00:35, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If it's anything like how things work here in the US, that is only the shipping date. Most games here get shipped on their release date, with most stores getting it the next day (big games like Metroid Prime 3: Corruption and Pokemon Diamond/Pearl get shipped early). Try tomorrow. TJ Spyke 01:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'll try and help this article when I get it, if that's OK. - Poke DP

I talked to the Sega Staff at the armageddon expo (who were demoing the game with a pre-release build) about this, and they said that the date on the official site is just wrong, with the real date being the 22nd of November, not October. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.1.28 (talk) 09:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't quite understand how an official website could be wrong, but, I'm not getting my hopes up, so I'm OK. Poke DP 09:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, Nintendo of Australia made a mistake. I don't understand how, but they did. Looks like I won't be helping with this page. Poke DP 09:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Useless second infobox
Another user apparently thinks that two infoboxes are needed (one for the Wii and one for the DS). Instead of discussing it here, they just reverted. It's the same game and doesn't need two different infoboxes IMO. Other similar games share the same infobox (like the PS2 and PSP versions of Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories), so I don't see the need to have different ones here. What do others think? TJ Spyke 22:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree. While the DS cover might have just been announced, Wikipedia isn't a place for Recentism. The Wii title is arguably more prominent, therefore there should just be one infobox containing its art. JeffreyAtW 23:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * In addition, there's almost no significant artwork differences between box covers (beyond logos, sizing, and placement) and the games are being developed by the same team so there's no need for the second box. the DS info should be incorporated into the main info box.--MASEM  23:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

November 7th
On the SEGA europe website it says the 23rd of November. Can we have a link that proves it comes out on the 7th. If not it needs to be changed back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.236.153 (talk) 14:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

WELL GEE,58 catalogs from yesterday say it's out on Wed.!!!!!!!-SLJCOAAATR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.115.85.131 (talk) 20:06, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you have a reliable source? Otherwise we have to use a reliable source for the current date listed by Sega. TJ Spyke 22:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Target,Best Buy,Gamestop,Walmart,ToysRus,Stop and Shop,Blockbuster,Gamefly,Amazon.com,Circut City,do i have to keep going? I just came from Target.They told me that i can get this game AND Super Mario Galaxy on Wed.-SLJCOAAATR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.99.218 (talk) 00:32, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Gamefly doesn't ship to Europe. And no stores are getting SMG tomorrow. North America doesn't get it until next Monday, Europe the Friday after that. Nintendo won't ship it to Europe this early, and any store selling it early would get in trouble. TJ Spyke 00:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

gamestop said to come tomorrow to get M&S because it comes out tomorrow --Wikialexdx 01:00, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That is when the store gets it. The general rule for 95% of games: the release date is when the company ships it. Most stores get it in the next day.  TJ   Spyke   01:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

My friend just got SMG but,he doesn't have a Wii...:( sometimes i wonder about him...-SLJCOAAATR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.99.218 (talk) 01:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Unless your friend lives in Japan (or imported the game), your friend does not have a legit copy of the game (unless he stole one of the "demo" copies from GameStop, since Nintendo sends out the full game instead of just a real demo).  TJ   Spyke   02:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't put it past Jesse to steal something like that.That low-life seriously needs to get a life...T.T —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.99.218 (talk) 01:26, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

November 20th NOT november 6th
The game is not coming out in NA until the 20th!! I've called four toys r us and three local toy stores finding it and everyone said the 20th!! NOT THE 6th. Jason Garrick 01:39, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And yet, NONE of them are reliable. I'm pretty sure I saw this at the store yesterday. Then again, my face was half numb. =\ Dengarde ► Complaints 01:42, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

That's why i was just at Best Buy and they had it?Sounds like your local stores aren't reliable!Trust me,i've called stores about games in the past,they tell me they game isn't coming out for a few more mlonthes,i yell at them that every officail site says it's out,i go to the store,they have plenty of copies,i yell at the managey.I get the game. LOL!-SLJCOAAATR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.99.218 (talk) 02:23, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Some stores are just dumb. Some stores say this, some say that. But I went to the mall today. no one had it. I live in the u.s. 69.114.110.8 04:25, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I just got the game last friday! What are you guys talking about?! Plus it is fun too. undefinedFangz the Wolf 13:50, 12 November 2007 (UTC)