Talk:Mario Kart DS/Archive 2

Whats with the vandalism?
I just fixed changing all the "Sonic's" back to "mario's". Whats with this?
 * You can revert all changes by going to history and editing the correct version of the page. That way it's not a big deal to delete vandalism.--Zxcvbnm 00:21, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Obsolete screenshots
The screenshots arrayed at the bottom of the article are from an early version of the game. Most notably, the character models are less detailed, and Cheep Cheep Beach has grass that is not present in the final version. Some of these differences can still be found in the Mario Kart DS Demo Version at DS kiosks in retail stores. --Poiuyt Man talk 07:58, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Time trials
I think this information should not be in the wikipedia article, isntead, i think it should be featured in the wikibooks instead. --Darkain Dragoon 09:38, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It might just be me, but I think it's too short for a full wikibooks entry. Unless somebody altered the segment on time attacking. I could see this being posted on wikibooks if the staff ghosts times were recorded, but otherwhise I think it should stand. -- • An_User • 12:16, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Item stat
From what I've seen in my own racing, how long a kart remains affected after getting hit by a Lightning Bolt does not seem to vary by the kart's own Item stat, but more on its position within the race (as described in the 'Items' section of the article). It could vary by the attacker's Item stat though... (this may need verification). Stratadrake 05:58, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Shy Guy
I've heard some people say that they've hacked the game and made Shy Guy a playable character. I was told that his weight stat is the same as Yoshi's, but could somebody with a flash cart and passme check? -- • An_User • 12:16, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Far as I know Shy Guy is only available during download play.--Acebrock 18:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
Do we actually have any valid information that the Rainbow Road from this game is the beta from Mario Kart 64? I've heard the rumor too, but unless a source from Nintendo is cited, I think it should be removed. The same goes for the intended launch title release. It's all well and good to speculate, but you can't post things you don't know as facts. Also, should we trim it even further by removing the tidbits about unlockables and King Boo? At the very least, it deserves some reformatting (it seems to "break" from the article's writing style) -- • An_User • 12:16, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Move to Wikibooks
This is a very good article but I feel as if a lot of it would be better at Wikibooks. I started to move some stuff over but I didn't delete anything here. Gerard Foley 14:34, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Kart page merge
Please merge karts like B Dasher into this page please. Thanks. Voice of  All T 06:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Quick Question
Just curious: why does the information regarding the race start boost (accelerating just as the 2 fades) get removed? Is it because it is a cheat/hint rather than valuable information? --Teabagged 04:39, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Online Scoring
I see someone took out the part about losses being subtracted from a player's record, it doesn't happen. But are these worth mentioning?


 * A player can disconnect before the first race (i.e. during the kart- or track- selection screen) without taking a losses penalty.
 * If the fourth race of a multiplayer set cannot be completed because all other players have disconnected, the remaining player does not receive any wins (though the others still receive losses for disconnecting).

...Also, there are rumors floating around on Nintendo's forums of a glitch that allows losses to be subtracted from a player's record under certain conditions. Stratadrake 04:39, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Question
in the article it says most if not all of the fastest times where acheived by snaking but all of them not most of them where achevied my snaking. I think the snaking part should be taken out becasue it is cheating.Theleet 21:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Annoyances
Its obvious there are far more annoyances in this game than the others. Such as the blue shell and blooper appearing during every race, or only receiving bananas when in first place. Its extremeley annyoing being attacked, sometimes three times at once during a race. This obviously dosent happen in the other games and should be noted...--Dallin Tanjo22 00:45, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It is already known (and noted) that the items a player picks up during a race depend primarily on the player's position. I've personally seen as many as three Blue Shells in a single race (once on Wi-Fi, another in single-player GP), and the racer in first place will mostly receive bananas and Fake Item Boxes anyway.  Never underestimate the power of random chance to produce an occasional exception to the usual statistics, I doubt this is all that notable.  --Stratadrake 02:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I got blue shelled three times in a course just a few minutes ago and I still won.:) WP 09:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Sometimes there are two blue-spiked shells and a lightning in one lap. It isn't very fun then. :-( I really get angry of this, especially when I want to get three stars on each cup -> in such cases I leave the race. ;-) Bloopers aren't any bad to me, I'll watch the touchscreen map. :-) And the others don't and slow down. :-) Blue-spiked shells appear most often on frappe snowland and they're mostly thrown by Toad or Dry Bones, aren't they?--217.78.128.228 18:43, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Archived
I've archived this page; all topics with no 2006 discussion are now available under the page Talk:Mario Kart DS/Archive1. --Stratadrake 00:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * ...And apparently, I have more to learn about how to archive a page properly (used Move method for the first archive, which copied all discussion, past and present alike). I extracted the January through March discussions into a second Archive page.  The MKDS article is rather stable (compared to articles like the Wii); monthly archiving might actually be too often.  Okay, enough practice with the archiving for now. --Stratadrake 04:18, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Mini Turbos
Quit changing it back. Nintendo has not confirmed snaking is intentional. If it is, produce a reference. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.147.113.244 (talk • contribs).
 * There used to be a reference to a forum post, it seems it was deleted during the vandalism time. -- ReyBrujo 16:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Here's your reference: http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/board/message?board.id=mario_kart_ds&message.id=165162&query.id=0#M165162

That is from a forum so you can't be sure how reliable it is. Dlong 20:47, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Supposedly, one of the Nintendo execs has officially confirmed snaking as not part of the game's intended design. But can we verify that? Stratadrake 03:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The link to the Nintendo forum should be enough. He is one of Nintendo playtesters, so he should know. Maybe it was not intentional when it was first created, but that post should confirm it. -- ReyBrujo 03:50, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree, myself. That's why an official answer on the subject would be ideal -- forum posts aren't necessarily as credible.Stratadrake 00:15, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


 * http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=Ln6VXJsPH0N3bG3US-eV1Hi8CfRY2Qum&page
 * A news article is more officiated than a forum post, but personally, I'm still labelling it as just his opinion on the subject. --Stratadrake 03:00, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I would like to quell this entire discussion with the mention that every AI character in the game uses this, especially in the harder difficulties, to beat you in the game. It could even be argued that a "perfect time" could be achieved on each course by noting where the winning AI character chooses to drift and mini turbo on each stage. This is not a glitch, it is intentional. mrmckeifus 19:18 24 March 2007

You guys didn't even mention PRB
PRB = Prolonged Rocket Boost, its starting to become common

(Sort of like Snaking, but timed perfectly with the starting boost so that when you go offroad you lose no speed) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.54.187.181 (talk • contribs). you would have to make a whole other section called glitches for that to happen Jamesjack 22:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC) If we made the glitches section we should have to move snaking there then.Snakingischeating 21:16, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Except that snaking is not a glitch. --Stratadrake 21:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * yeah it is nintendo would never put somthing like that in game it was not in any other mario kart game.Snakingischeating 02:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if that's the case, then I guess Blooper and Bullet Bill are glitches, as well as Missions Mode, all the Nitro GP tracks, Dry Bones, ROB, all the karts, drafting, Wi-Fi and many other things.~Locke 19:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

"you would have to make a whole other section called glitches for that to happen Jamesjack 22:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC)" Maybe we could add a glitch section. It could mention some of the glitches that allow you to fall into nowhere, like in GCN LC, RR, WP, and I think there might be one in DS, along with some of the larger RR ones like flying off the loop into the stars, riding up the railing to skip the loop, etc. Or would that be against Wikipedia policy? ~Locke 20:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Do we need this?
Someone added this to the article -- I'm unsure if it's actually noteworthy, so I'll post it here in the meantime.

====Leading On==== Another tactic is the use of "leading on." It is done when a player goes in the path of a dropped item, like a banana or a shell when there is an opponent behind the player. Once the player reaches within mere feet of the item, he or she will move out of the way. If done correctly, the opponent will smash into that item.

My thoughts:
 * Not specific to MKDS, or even the Mario Kart series -- can be done in just about any racing game featuring items and/or obstacles.
 * Not actually a feature (unlike drafting).
 * Unsure if this is even a common tactic in the first place (unlike snaking).

--Stratadrake 01:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikibooks links
We don't need an edit war over whether to include the Wikibooks links or not. Should they stay?

My thoughts:
 * Keep the main Wikibooks link for sure.

--Stratadrake 00:35, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The book has been DELETED! We don't need links to deleted books! Gerard Foley 00:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, sorry. I guess I didn't understand what the edit summaries were saying.  --Stratadrake 01:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It was me who originally put the links there, and I started the book. There's even an extra note from me just above. I was hoping people would come and help, but they never did. Gerard Foley 02:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Random item?
The article says "receive a randomly-selected item." but that's not true. The item boxes are not random. --Zeno McDohl (talk) 03:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Items are sorted into various categories depending on your position in the race when you hit the item box, but exactly which item in the 'set' you get is indeed determined randomly. For example, in 1st place you'll either get a Green Shell, Banana, Fake Item Box, or Bob-omb, but you never know which one of those it will be.  The only times in the game where an item box does NOT give you a random item is in certain Mission mode levels where it always gives you a certain item (typically triple Mushrooms or Stars) to help complete the mission with.  In those cases you can tell because it doesn't bother to flip through the list, it gives you the item instantly after hitting the item box.

In all other game modes though, it is indeed random, because you never know what item it will give you. --Stratadrake 12:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Technically they aren't random. When you have a list of possibilities and you select them at random, you'll have a chance to get any of them. When it's predetermined that you will never select certain ones, that isn't random. --Zeno McDohl (talk) 14:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you're getting too technical. The article should probably point out that losing players get better items (if it doesn't already), but the wording should stay. -- gakon5
 * I agree with gakon5. The idea is that the casual reader learns what an item box is and that it can give the player an item, not whether if it is random, pseudo-random, predetermined or the probability of getting an item. -- ReyBrujo 16:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I wasn't suggesting the line be removed or replaced. I'm with Gakon as well, a note should be made. "Depending on the players position..." or something of the sort. --Zeno McDohl (talk) 17:24, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * A bit of rewording then, since the article already mentions that players will "tend to" receive different items depending on whether they're closer to the front or the rear of the pack. --Stratadrake 23:56, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * In 1st place you only get bananas, triple bananas, green shell, and ake-item boxes, no Bob-ombs. In 2nd place, red shells, Bob-ombs, triple green shells, mushrooms, and the same like those in 1st place. In 3rd place you could get triple mushrooms, bloopers, and triple red shells (and the previous ones). In 4th place there is the blue-spiked shell added, in 5th place the star and in 6th place bullet bill, lighning and super-mushroom and the previous ones in each case.

Rainbow Road as Beta for Mario Kart 64
In the trivia section for this site and the Mario Kart 64 one it says something like this: "The Rainbow Road in Mario Kart DS is the beta version from Mario Kart 64." Can anyone verify this with a link or something? --Thaddius 17:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Since the Mario Kart DS RR uses features that did not exist in Mario Kart 64, it's extremely unlikely. I've removed the bullet point, as there seems to be no real evidence supporting the claim (developers comments, unused data in MK64, etc) Mike 19:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Someone keeps adding it back so I put a thing in there to coax a source. --Thaddius 12:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Drifting
The section on drifting is incorrect. The Wikipedia page on drifting reads, "When the rear wheels are slipping at a greater angle than the front wheels, the car is drifting or oversteering." The action described in this section is not drifting, rather, it is slip streaming. Now, it's possible that Nintendo used the term drifting incorrectly, and if that's the case there should be a citation for this, if this isn't the case, then it should be titled "slip streaming" and not "drifting." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.17.83.24 (talk • contribs).
 * A.k.a. "drafting". Whomever thought it was about power-sliding (drifting) (aka This edit) was in error. Fixed.  --Stratadrake 12:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

hack
I was racing with wifi and i was racing with hackers. How do you hack into it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.133.6.117 (talk • contribs).
 * What do you mean? If they were suddenly in front of you, that's lag, either you or they have slow internet. Otherwise, you need a Passme.--Zxcvbnm 21:57, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Remember this page is meant for discussion of the article, not how to hack the game. -- Steel 22:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Some people are making it so it loads a shorter course so they finish earlier. Use google to find out how to hack it, but this should be mentioned in the main page I guess as it is a concern to the wifi community. --Thaddius 12:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "Some people are making it so it loads a shorter course..." --Thaddius 12:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe that is called || (Parallel) Track Hacking. ;)~Locke 20:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

"Slithering" vs. Snaking
Removed this info from the article:

There is an other version of snaking, Slithering. This is similar to snaking, but instead of going side to side the kart drifts the same way each time. This is an easier and more effective way of snaking and is gaining popularity. Slithering is an evolvement on snaking and many true snaking fanatics may disagree, but they can't argue that it is faster and easier.

My thoughts:
 * No sources or references cited -- possible neologism or fancruft.
 * Snaking is named for the back-and-forth motion produced by generating MT's on a straight segment of track. Some players will argue that, because of this definition, snaking is never possible on a corner.
 * It is not more effective than snaking. It is merely more intuitive to generate MT's on a corner, than on a straight.  This arguably makes it less effective than snaking.
 * Inclusion is already contested on this article.

--Stratadrake 01:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I completely agree. Indeed, I removed it once from the article as well. I've been around Mario Kart forums for yonks, and I've never heard of it. Seems like blatant neologism to me. -- Steel 15:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I attend a MKDS forum too, and over there we have no accepted term for the behavior other than "mini-turbos". I've used the term "multi mini-turbo" a few times over there to see if it might catch on, but even then it would be a neologism if included here. --Stratadrake 00:18, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Drafting in previous Mario Kart games?
See this revision. I've never seen drafting as a gameplay feature in any previous Mario Kart games I've played. Disagreeing with that revision, rewriting for now. If the claim is true, then where is a good source to cite? --Stratadrake 09:12, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It was in MK64 as well. Don't have a source handy, but I'll find one later if I have the time. -- Steel 16:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I did some searching on GameFAQs, and it didn't take long to find a MK64 guide mentioning the subject. I've got to try that myself though... I never knew of drafting in any previous MK games.  --Stratadrake 01:13, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Include this? BSD + PRB
There have been a few revisions attempting to mention these terms:

PRB: "Prolonged Rocket Boost" - A glitch combining the rocket start with snaking. If executed properly, allows the player to cross rough terrain with no speed loss. See this revision.

BSD: "Blue Shell Dodging" - Combining a mini-turbo boost and hop to jump clear of a Spiny Shell's explosion without being hit. See this revision.

I know these terms are mentioned frequently on the NSider (Nintendo of America) forums, but are they noteworthy enough for Wikipedia inclusion?

Support or Oppose inclusion? --Stratadrake 07:42, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Survey
I definitely support it. Just mention it. It doesn't need to be explained. 4.226.99.146 01:16, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Myself, Oppose -- I don't know of any sources other than forums and GameFAQs which refer to these terms. --Stratadrake 07:42, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose, per WP:NOT, Wikipedia should not include Howto's. -- ReyBrujo 12:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment Not necessarily a "how-to" inclusion, but just mentioning the fact that some players have figured this out, be it a glitch or otherwise. That's the question mark. --Stratadrake 18:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If the article states that it is virtually impossible to evade, add a link to a renowned site that lists how to evade it as reference, and done. No need to explain how it is possible to evade it, not even mention it. -- ReyBrujo 15:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

BSD is real. Here is a video of me dodging a blue shell (It's at the end though.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOkLtUZCf04

Comic
That online comic sucked Cfive 23:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Start-up on DS Lite.
''*When the game loads for the first time Mario yells "Here we go!", every other time he yells "YA-hoo!" '''When played in a DS Lite, Mario yells "Here we go!" every time the game is started.' 

Simply is not true. "Here we go!" is said only for the first time Mario Kart DS is booted on any DS (original or Lite). Afterwards, he still says "YA-hoo!" I've played it on my DS Lite after transferring my Wi-Fi Connection info from DS to DS Lite, and it is the latter message. Unless someone can provide proof that it is ALWAYS "Here we go!" (Both of those videos only show MKDS being booted up once on DS Lite), I'm removing that bit from the Trivia section. --BPM 22:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

It IS true. Ive played MY game on my old DS on my cousin's girlfriend's DS Lite and it ALWAYS SAYS HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO P.S. I Dunno How To Sign —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.6.108.126 (talk • contribs) 09:24, January 25, 2007
 * There's a notice on the editing form (TWO, in fact) saying how to sign your name. No excuse for not typing the four tildes (especially when you can click the latter notice and it will add them automatically).  --Stratadrake 13:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that it just says that when you beat the game. Jake1324 02:13, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It always says "Here we go", but earlier it always said "Yahoo". It could be that it changes if you press A, B, X, Y, L and R at once while loading to make a new file.--217.78.128.228 18:56, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Mario Kart DS Beta Version
I've been looking into MKDS Betas lately, and on sites, I have found some good info about some Beta Versions of Mario Kart DS, though I'm not sure if I should add what I've found to MKDS' Wikipedia article... Here is what I've found so far...

A user on YouTube with the alias of "mkdsbeta" has a hacked Beta version of Mario kart DS, which contains 4 courses not found in the Final version of the game, and 1 course available in the final game(with differences)... They include Mario Circuit from Mario Kart: Double Dash (Though no goombas or pirahna plants are seen), What seems to be Koopa Troopa Beach from Mario Kart 64(using Cheep-Cheep beach textures), The Block city battle stage from Mario Kart: Double Dash, a test stage(With Tubing and many curves), and a Beta version of Waluigi Pinball(Which has more obstacles, and less jumps).

Another Youtube user with the alias "NeoKamek" has an early retail demo copy of the game, which includes a very early version of Waluigi Pinball(Which has more alternating paths, different obstacles, and different textures), and a Beta version of DK Pass(Which has less walls, No snowy textures, as well as more bumps, less turns, a smaller boost pad, and a Thwomp near the end).

It is also possible to access 4 Beta tracks in the final version of the game, either by hacking, or by using an Action replay DS... They include GCN mario Circuit(Same as in early betas, but without textures), N64 Koopa Troopa beach(Same as early betas, but without textures), a very simple test circle course(A very small circle shaped track, that' shorter than baby Park, and has only 1 lap, and no textures), and the test stage with the tubing(Without textures)...

Joe EchidnaFox 02:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

GA, anyone?
Does anyone want to help take this up to good article status? It's a shame this great game has such a poor article. -- Steel 11:08, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There is just too much manual-like information. -- ReyBrujo 12:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You're not joking. If you cut out the instruction manual stuff the article would shrink to about half the size it was. Probably more. That's one of the reasons I haven't marched in and got rid of it all - because there wouldn't be anything left afterwards. -- Steel 12:43, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

EGM Average Score
I recommend that someone edit in the EGM average into the scores. --Gaming King 04:24, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Mention Clans?
As I'm sure you all know, Mario Kart DS was the first Nintendo online game to really start a new "clan scene" among the nintendo fanbase, so I'm thinking we should mention something about how this started many wi-fi clans? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.137.246.40 (talk • contribs).
 * Unless a reliable site like GameSpot, IGN, GameSpy, eWeek, etc, mentioned them, we can't, as it would be considered original research. -- ReyBrujo 04:13, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia section
Since somebody outright removed it....

==Trivia== *Mario Kart DS was originally planned to launch the same date as the DS, but developers wanted more time to refine the title. *The artwork in the alternate title screen is based off the Mario Kart DS promotional artwork. *The game was originally set to be released in Europe first on November 11, 2005. However, about a month before launch, Nintendo announced the game would be delayed for two weeks in Europe, to allow more copies to be distributed to stores. This led to a small outcry among European fans. *The Japanese version of the game shows R.O.B. (known as Family Robot) with a red and white motif; while in America, Europe and Australia, R.O.B. is gray. This matches the color scheme of the R.O.B. NES accessory, and the difference is preserved while playing online. The Japanese version of R.O.B is shown as the Staff Ghost for Desert Hills. *Similarly, during online play, the HUD over each opponent is color-coded according to their region: red for Asia, blue for North America, and green for Europe. *The name of one of Mario's go-karts (the B Dasher) is derived from a hit single composed by The Tongari Kids, titled "B-dash," inspired by the NES best-seller "Super Mario Bros." The song title itself is inspired by the fact that one had to press the B button on the NES' controller to make Mario dash. *When the game loads for the first time Mario yells "Here we go!", every other time he yells "YA-hoo!". When the game is played in a Nintendo DS Lite, Mario will always say "Here we go!", but with the help of the Action Replay for NDS without the need of any codes, you can always get Mario to say "YA-hoo!"

Wiki guidelines regarding Trivia sections do not recommend just removing it abruptly and entirely. --Stratadrake 01:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

How you can stop Wi-Fi cheaters
to stop wi-fi cheaters don't move your kart. --Dark Kirby5 03:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)Dark Kirby5


 * Right, but....


 * You will be disconnected from NWFC after 30 seconds of inactivity, and it still counts as one loss per opponent.
 * You can prevent the above by doing some action (like quick-turning), but your opponent will still finish the race.
 * And if he doesn't, the race will automatically time-out after 5 minutes and proceed to the next race, unless he times out himself.


 * And don't forget...


 * This page is meant for discussing the article, not the game. --Stratadrake 04:21, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh sorry. --Dark Kirby5 05:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Wi-Fi Stages
Im not sure how, but i was in Waluigi's Pinball and Airship Fortress in Wi-Fi. Are those possible stages or is it a different version or what? (Toasty was not logged in when he made this) Toasty! &#124; Available at your local store 05:24, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I think its a cheat. --Dark Kirby5 05:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Accessing the tracks not normally available for Wi-Fi is a known hack and it has already been mentioned in the article. --Stratadrake 14:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

i can't see any mention of it at all in the article. i was racing against someone on banshee board walk yesterday. he obviously had and action replay or something. it was great to race on some new tracks and i think it's lame nintendo won't let us race on these tracks online when they are clearly coining it in hand over fist 86.148.5.107 15:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Emblems
In the Artical it shows an emblem that looks complicated...how do people make those? --Dark Kirby5 05:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Not exactly an on-topic question, but it simply takes a bit pixel art know-how with a lot of time and effort. (I should know, my MKDS emblem is of the wolf Link from Twilight Princess.)  --Stratadrake 14:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Your right it is about skill; I managed to make a sword and the name link in the background. --Dark Kirby5 18:04, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Walkthroughish
I'm going to clean up the sections on snaking and mini-turbos, too much like a walkthrough. &mdash;The Gr e at Llamamoo? 00:40, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Any game guide should be removed, definitely, but I disagree that the sections need to be removed entirely. Snaking in particular is an aspect of the game which sets it apart from other games in the series and deserves a mention. -- Steel 00:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I said cleanup (thoguh before I said I'd remove it), not removing it entirely.
 * Just to note, any sufficiently detailed explanation of a phenomenon or aspect to a game will naturally allow the reader to derive a series of instructions for generating said phenomenon. So there's a little bit of gray area between describing what a certain technique (such as snaking) is and giving "how-to" information.  --Stratadrake 04:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Snaking
I though things about cheat should be taken out. this is unintened so thereofore it is cheating —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chessmaster3 (talk • contribs) 22:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
 * Last I checked, that wasn't a reason to remove content. -- Steel 22:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * According to some Nintendo officials, snaking was in fact "intended" to be part of Mario Kart (read it and weep here). Or perhaps more precisely, the development team have not taken any measures in game design to prevent it from being used.  Snaking is quite a controversial subject among the Mario Kart community (I can speak from experience here too).--Stratadrake 00:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * IIRC, the developers didn't intend for it to be in the game, but when the playtesters discovered it, they decided to leave it in to make things more competitive. At least, that's what I heard *shrugs*. -- Steel 12:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

snaking is a glitch though exploted in the game Snakingischeating 23:10, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree it suck's the fun out of online play, but it is not really "cheating", its using an Exploit in the Mini-Turbo system. Quez 00:22, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

it doesn't suck the fun out of online play. have you not noticed that wifi mariokart is like the equivelent of a 50cc race? you've got to snake or snooze off 86.135.50.81 17:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Multi-Mini-Turbo
I don't see why this shouldn't be included (between "Mini-Turbo" and "Snaking").

Multi-Mini-Turbo
Since the Mini-Turbo gives racers a speed advantage, many people will use this technique as much as possible. This includes using multiple MTs (abbreviation for Mini-Turbos) on one turn, and even using them on straight stretches. Some believe that this is cheating, since the MT was designed to help take corners more smoothly, and was not meant to be used on a straight stretch. This basic concept of using speed-boosting techniques as often as possibl is the basis of the snaking technique. ~Locke 20:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Revision:
 * ===Using multiple Mini-Turbos===
 * The execution of several excessive mini-turbos during races has caused minor controversy in Wi-Fi play. Because using more Mini-Turbos on turns or straight stretches gives a player a speed advantage, players regard it as anything from strategically correct, to an abuse of the Mini-Turbo.
 * (The rest of the snaking article would go here.)
 * I took a few things from the snaking article, but I think using multiple mini-turbos is more important than snaking, since it is the basis of the snaking technique, and some people use multiple mini-turbos without snaking. The snaking article could still go there, with maybe a definition like "Snaking is the use of multiple Mini-Turbos chained together to form a back-and-forth motion...".~Locke 14:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I could swear that "MMT" was an acronym I coined at the Nintendo forums one day....--Stratadrake 13:27, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I could easily leave out "MMT". I could change it to "Using multiple Mini-Turbos" or something.
 * PS: Why'd you leave us at NSider? :(~Locke 14:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Wait a sec -- Locke64 that is you? I didn't even recognize you until you said "us".  (PS: my answer was over there)  Let's see, if an NSider forum search for "MMT" can be trusted, apparently I actually did make up that term in the Nintendo forums one day (earliest result = May 27th last year).


 * Three-letter acronyms aside, that still leaves the question of finding a reliable source which said it, though. Snaking may be the result of consecutive multiple Mini-Turbos, but it gets all the attention indeed. --Stratadrake 02:42, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Snaking
etc.

I also think that Rocket Start and PRB should be included.~Locke 20:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * many people, Some believe, no reliable source, no citation: original research. -- ReyBrujo 20:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see.~Locke 12:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * But I see a "Some players..." in the snaking section too...~Locke 14:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * why prb is a technuque used for cheating similar to snakingSnakingischeating 23:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That is an opinion. I agree that it may not have been intentionally programmed into the game, but it is there.  You don't need to hack to use it.~Locke 14:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Wario's stadium
What should be said about Wario's stadium? It's driven the opposite direction to the original N64 track, probably because driving in the original direction enabled the player to use the small humps to leap over the "wall" and much closer to the finish. --The preceding comment was signed by Us  e  r:Sp3000  (talk•contribs) 21:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably nothing -- is it important to mention in the first place? On a side note, I have noticed how the N64 Wario Stadium was very Supercross-like (read: a very long track that twists & pretzels in upon itself using up almost all available space in the process, like a real Supercross would), the GCN Waluigi Stadium was similarly pretzeled (if slightly less so), and by contrast the MKDS Wario Stadium is, essentially, something of a figure-eight.  But this is a first-hand observation (in other word original research) and not worth mentioning either. --Stratadrake 03:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * O.K. I just thought the bumps looked extremely familiar- I used to always use the shortcut in '64. --The preceding comment was signed by Us  e  r:Sp3000  (talk•contribs) 04:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * (Cheater. :P) The reason why the "shortcut" even existed at all in MK64 was due to flaws in the game's track-location system, i.e. by jumping from a precise point A to point B you could fool the game into thinking that you had performed an entire lap when you actually did not.  --Stratadrake 13:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Sandbagging and Emblem Makers
Shouldn't something be mentioned about "sandbagging," the technique of deliberately staying behind the other racers to get better items, then using that advantage to get ahead later? And shouldn't online emblem makers like this one: be mentioned, too? Crimsonfox92 03:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Nah. Sandbagging isn't anything new or unique to MKDS, and Wikipedia is not a videogame guide].  Emblem-maker utilities are intended for showing emblems off online, you can't actually transfer one to/from the game. --Stratadrake 13:29, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, you're right about how sandbagging isn't unique to mkds, but the issue is quite the contrary about the emblem makers. After the emblem is created on one of these "makers", the user can input into his/her DS manually line-by-line. Crimsonfox92 05:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Page for terms
I was thinking about a separate page for terms like "lag," "BSD," "PRB," "sandbagging," "snaking," etc. --The preceding comment was signed by Us  e  r:Sp3000  (talk•contribs) 07:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * "Lag" is a standard term (see lag or latency (engineering)), and the other terms which are exclusive to MKDS don't deserve their own separate page. --Stratadrake 14:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * If we don't place it on another page, where do you put it on this one? --The preceding comment was signed by Us  e  r:Sp3000  (talk•contribs) 06:49, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Trivia/Items
I removed the items which were, in my opinion, poorly written. THis is my reason. Anybody oppose to that movement? --The preceding comment was signed by Us  e  r:Sp3000  (talk•contribs) 10:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * (Edit summary = "junk"). Short and to the point, but POV and not very descriptive.  --Stratadrake 12:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Somebody please re-add it. (And actually fix it up.) →Pezzar 01:50, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Baby Mario is not in this game
I just removed Baby Mario from the character roster. Why? Beacuse he's NOT IN THE GAME! I hope the user who added that garbage gets blocked. Link 486 12:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Snaking Section
To my mind the whole snaking section is overlong and not written in a very encyclopaedic way. Any thoughts? Guest9999 23:59, 11 April 2007 (UTC)]]
 * The second paragraph is certainly the problem. "Refusal to accept this idea", unnecessary quotation marks around ordinary words (implying a special usage), there's a clear implication of bias or POV towards snaking, and none of the second paragraph is properly attributed or sourced either.  I don't know who originally added that (it goes back at least one week), but I'm just going to prune it something closer to an older version.  --Stratadrake 12:21, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't like this part: "while newer gamers unfamiliar with the tactic often become frustrated..." It's not this one tactic in particular that anti-snakers don't like. They don't like the general idea of there being some kind of advanced tactic that separates experienced players from beginners. Also, I think it's important to note the difference between the "non-snaker" and the "anti-snaker". Many non-snakers have no problem with their opponenents snaking, but anti-snakers say that it's the snaker's responsibility to alter his play. There wouldn't be a controversy without the anti-snakers, so it's important to explain their opinion. I'll give it another try and see if I'm able to include all the important points without sounding biased. Mjf314 07:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Of course, every game has tactics that advanced players learn and use. The controversy over snaking is not so much that it is more effective than normal racing, but that it is significantly more effective -- it trumps just about every other tactic in MKDS combined, polarizes the gamers between the "have"s and "have not"s, which leads to either side antagonizing the other.  IMHO, at least.  But can we cite this stuff? --Stratadrake 21:55, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Every important tactic in every competitive game needs to be used if you wanna have any chance whatsoever against a good player. In competitive Mario Kart DS races it's a given that everyone will snake, so it's a contest of who's a better snaker (though of course that's not the only skill being competed in). I've never heard anyone complain about an opponent pressing the A button, even though it gives you a huge advantage over people who don't. What makes snaking different is that anti-snakers can't or don't want to do it, and they have the self-important attitude that they have a right to decide that snaking isn't a legitimate form of racing, even though it's widely accepted as a legitimate form of racing by all competitive gamers.

I'm not sure who you would want to cite. I could type up some quotes and put them on my website, and then cite myself, or is that not allowed? I've been playing the game since its release and have participated in many snaking debates on various forums, and I was world champion for >3 months after release (I'm Michael Fried if you didn't know), so I'd consider myself to be somewhat of an authority. Maybe I wouldn't be the best person to cite because I've always hated anti-snakers, but so do a lot of people. Mjf314 06:52, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Regarding pressing the A button ... nope, not even going there, go win a deathmatch without even firing your weapon. But regarding citing, we need Reliable sources, such as news sites, not forums or blogs.  --Stratadrake 13:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The A button is the gas button that makes you move forward. I know it sounds like a silly analogy, but it was meant to prove a point. The fact that snaking gives snakers a huge advantage is not the reason that anti-snakers consider it to be cheating.

My website isn't a forum or a blog. I don't currently have any news on it, but if I wanted to I could add a new section devoted to news. What exactly makes a person qualified to write a news article that's cited on Wikipedia? I'm an eyewitness to many of the snaking debates on several different forums, so that would make me a primary source. Mjf314 18:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:RS has more info about what kinds of sources are generally considered reliable. I've been eyewitness (and participant) in snaking debates on Nintendo's forums; not only is snaking effective, but to the untrained eye it does not look like an advanced technique, but instead like the driver should be pulled over and breathalyzed.  --Stratadrake 23:33, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

And to an untrained eye it makes no sense to do mini-turbos, use items, hop, or do anything else that you wouldn't do in real-life driving, but it's ridiculous to compare Mario Kart DS to real-life driving, because no racing game has realistic physics. If you already know how to mini-turbo, then it makes perfect sense to snake. Also, it's impossible to objectively create a rule about exactly what is snaking and what isn't. It's not just a black and white thing that you either do or don't do, it's a gradual thing that you slowly get better at. So for a snaker who wants to play competitively, it makes no sense not to snake, and it's no fun just to choose an arbitrary skill level to force yourself to play at. For an anti-snaker to just expect his opponent to know that he's supposed to lower himself to the anti-snaker's skill level and then call him a cheater if he doesn't is the definition of sore loser, and considered rude and socially unacceptable in all competitive games. Mjf314 16:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I just read the section about self published sources on the WP:Verifiability page: "Self-published material may be acceptable when produced by a well-known, professional researcher (scholarly or non-scholarly) in a relevant field. These may be acceptable so long as their work has been previously published by reliable third-party publications."

I'm certainly very well known among Mario Kart players. I'm not professional, but there aren't any professional Mario Kart players. As for third-party publications, I don't think there are any articles about snaking published by third-party publications. The best I might be able to find would be an article about competitive gaming in general. Mjf314 17:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

reception sorry
Sorry about messing up the Reception article. I am new to editing Wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pezzar (talk • contribs).
 * No problem :-) -- ReyBrujo 03:45, 22 June 2007 (UTC)