Talk:Mario Vargas Llosa

Congratulations and thanks!!
Congratulations and thanks to everyone who has helped in bringing this article up to FA status. It's a real achievement. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 21:21, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm confused here. I see many editors chalking up this as another FA (and it should be), but I haven't seen any edits yet to suggest it has finally been approved. Once such edits are in place, please link them. Many thanks, Geometry guy 23:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You're just not looking in the right place. Look at WP:FA! Or see this recent change: . Wrad (talk) 23:10, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Lincolnchan98 (talk) 00:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yay! Congratulations to the amazing editors who have made this into such a great article! I am really personally glad about this one (which is why I wanted to be sure above, sorry for the hesitation): it is extraordinary to produce an FA biography on a famous author in so little time. Massive kudos to the MMM project for making it happen. Geometry guy 00:48, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And so you should be happy, Lincolnchan98!! :)  You did a great job here.  --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 00:49, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Excellent work, guys! Biographies can be really difficult to get through FAC, and you did a wonderful job in a short amount of time. Karanacs (talk) 01:09, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Pile on congratulations! Wonderful work, all! Awadewit (talk) 01:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Congratulations Lincolnchan98 and all the other editors! I must admit, I was constantly watching this page to see who reached FA first. hehehehe. Either way...we all got there in the end! Congratulations! Carlaty (talk) 23:36, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Congrats on the FA, one of the things Wikipedia could improve is on world literature. (Just look at the pages for Vargas Llosa's majork works Green House and Conversation in the Cathedral. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.208.184.46 (talk) 10:56, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Infobox
Is there any way to change the colour of the infobox from green to something else? I was looking at some of the other articles and they have gray ones. The green looked nice when it was a GA but now it's an FA! Lincolnchan98 (talk) 07:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The infobox color is chosen by the pre-determined template. As far as I know, it is not possible to change it without changing all of the infoboxes in that series. (Another reason to dispense with the infobox!) Awadewit (talk) 13:19, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Lead section
The first paragraph of the lead section currently states that ''Vargas Llosa is considered one of Latin America's most significant novelists and essayists, and one of the leading authors of his generation. Some critics consider him to have had a larger international impact and world-wide audience than any other writer of the Latin American Boom. At the same time, the third paragraph of the lead mentions that Vargas Llosa is considered one of the major Latin American writers of all time, alongside other greats such as Julio Cortázar, Jorge Luis Borges, Gabriel García Márquez, and Carlos Fuentes.''. It seems to me that this second assertion is redundant as it makes a similar claim to the one in the first paragraph; it even uses the same source as a reference. I think the above alluded sentence should be deleted or merged into the first paragraph. To compensate for this deletion it might be a good idea to merge the third and fourth paragraphs. --Victor12 (talk) 12:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, and have edited the lead accordingly, also to reflect the article body a little better. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 19:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Agnosticism
I have two citations if someone want to mention this in the text: and Luigi Manzetti, Privatization South American Style, p.234. Oxford, Oxford University Press, 1999, ISBN 0-1982-9466-2. Biruitorul (talk) 06:55, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Images
OK, I've been sent three images by Vargas Llosa's personal assistant. I may need some help, however, explaining the rationale. I'm uploading one of them at the moment. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 22:32, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And, ugh, the plan is going to hell in a handbasket, because I'm getting the error message "The file has no extension (like ".jpg")." And yet it *does* have an extension.  :(  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 22:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Drat and double drat. Will try again another day.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 22:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Neoliberalism?
In the "Later life and political involvement" section, the article currently states that Vargas Llosa has identified himself with neoliberalism rather than extreme left-wing political ideologies ever since. It seems quite unlikely to me that Vargas Llosa has ever referred to himself as a neoliberal as he has often said that "neoliberal" is a derogatory term used by opponents of libertarianism. See for instance the following interview by the Argentine newspaper La Nación (in Spanish): Vargas Llosa: "Nunca he conocido a un neoliberal". It might be better to switch the term neoliberalism with libertarianism, which is the best equivalent of the Spanish liberalismo. --Victor12 (talk) 02:22, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Here he identifies himself with "us, the 'neoliberals'" ("nosotros los 'neoliberales'"), albeit of course with scare quotes. He is at least identifying with those called neoliberals.  There is a better source out there, I believe, as he wrote an introduction to a book on neoliberalism in the 1980s, but this isn't a bad start.  NB "libertarian" is not really a good equivalent of "liberal," I'd say.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 04:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I would try my best to steer clear of the term, as it is a very hard label to use in an NPOV way, and seems to be a negative way of referring to those who favor free markets and small government. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 05:31, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In the Cato article I think Vargas Llosa is using "neoliberales" in a sarcastic way, that's why he uses quotation marks around the word. If you check the preceding paragraph you can see statements such as las reformas liberales que nosotros defendemos, and según creemos nosotros, los liberales without quotation marks. I think it is clear he defines himself as a liberal in the Spanish sense of the word, that is a partidario de la libertad individual y social en lo político y de la iniciativa privada en lo económico according to the Real Academia Española dictionary. Now liberal in English is now identified with left-wing positions, maybe we should wikilink to the term classical liberalism if you think libertarianism is not correct. --Victor12 (talk) 13:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No answers? Do we have a consensus on changing the term, then? --Victor12 (talk) 21:25, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "Neoliberal" is definitely point-of-view. It would be fair to say "pro-market" and "pro-democracy" and "anti-communist" and "anti-terrorist".
 * "Neoliberal" was invented by leftists to describe the free-market domestic policies and the increased military-propensities (trying for neutrality) of Reagan and Thatcher, which differ from classical liberalism (libertarianism, according to some) or modern (social) liberalism, with some welfare state, etc. It is almost entirely used in a derogatory manner, by leftists, often wrongly to describe e.g. Swedish centrists.
 * Thanks, Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 19:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Vargas Llosa and García Márquez
There is a parragraph that reads that Vargas Llosa and García Márquez have not spoken in the last 30 years, and it's quoted with note number 29. I consider that a myth, because five or six years ago, in the elegant neighborhood of Polanco in Mexico City, I saw them eating together along with their wives and joining them were Carlos Fuentes and Sylvia Lemus, as well as Héctor Aguilar Camin and Angeles Mastretta. It would be a good idea to confirm that quote. Otherwise, the rest of the article is very useful. Thanks!!! --Ciudadana (talk) 07:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Nobel Prize
A few questions should be settled before an FA article spins into total chaos. Should the Nobel Prize have its own section? How long should it be? Where should it be placed? Lampman (talk) 11:20, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I personally would not make the Prize its own section. Rather, I would add a paragraph at the end of the "Contributions" section including the Prize citation and later information about his Nobel lecture, etc. It might also work as a paragraph at the end of the "Later life and political involvement" section. That section currently ends with mention of another prize, so it seems to fit, but I wouldn't really consider the Nobel Prize to be "political involvement" as such.--Danaman5 (talk) 11:52, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few things that could be included, whether it's a paragraph or a separate section:
 * Vargas Llosa was informed about the award at his apartment in New York at 5 a.m. Initially he thought it was a prank. "It was a grand surprise," he said. "It’s a good way to start a New York day."
 * He will receive the prize in Stockholm on 10 December. The prize money is 10 million Swedish kronor (1.49 million dollars, 1.09 million euros).
 * He was awarded the 2010 Nobel Prize in Literature "for his cartography of structures of power and his trenchant images of the individual's resistance, revolt, and defeat".
 * It is the first time the prize has been awarded to a South American since Gabriel Garcia Marquez won it in 1982. Lampman (talk) 16:20, 7 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I think an "Awards and recognition" section would be appropriate, where all his awards could be reviewed/listed. The Nobel could then be a subsection of that. BartlebytheScrivener (talk) 18:52, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Except a complete list of everything he's ever won could possibly violate NOTDIRECTORY, which is unacceptable for an FA. Lampman (talk) 19:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you will find this more useful? - After the Nobel announcement on Thursday, Garcia Marquez - himself a Nobel laureate - tweeted: "cuentas iguales" ["now we're even" in Spanish]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.65.76 (talk) 20:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It has been confirmed this was a hoax, as unlike rock stars, Garcia Marquez doesn't have a twitter account. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.1.167 (talk) 22:20, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Vargas Llosa's father's a busdriver?
Are we sure that his father was a busdriver? A friend of mine told me that his father worked for the airline Panagra. --Forich (talk) 21:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The Guardian's profile on Vargas Llosa says his father was a radio operator. BartlebytheScrivener (talk) 23:44, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Someone please add link
A long political article he wrote in 1990, available for free and just in time for Columbus Day. Someone with editing privileges please add as appropriate to external links or mention article in discussion of politics and then link in endnotes.

http://harpers.org/archive/1990/12/0007669 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vargasllosachange (talk • contribs) 23:31, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Gisellas, 9 October 2010
In the Info box (upper right side), add to the Notable Awards: Premio Cervantes 1994

because this is the maximum prize in the Spanish-speaking world, after the Nobel.

Gisellas (talk) 08:02, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Celestra (talk) 14:33, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Here's the proof of the Cervantes Prize 1994 http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/vargas-llosa-premio-nobel-2010/entrega-del-premio-cervantes-vargas-llosa/872215/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_de_Cervantes_Prize http://www.themanbookerprize.com/content/mario-vargas-llosa http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11836694

Laurita (talk)

nobel prize medal
why the nobel prize medal-picture has been removed from the top of the main article's photo? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.43.122.182 (talk) 00:07, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Swedish translation
I'd like to extent my appreciation for those who brought this article to FA status. It's very nice to be able to show the best of Wikipedia in a current topic.

I and a few other Wikipedians over at Swedish Wikipedia have taken upon ourselves to translate this version to Swedish. We're only about two paragraphs from completion, though it will most likely require a good deal of proof reading. With a bit of luck, it might even become a Swedish utmärkt artikel before the official prize ceremony in December.

If anyone feels they have comments related to the translation or anything else, feel free to comment here.

Peter Isotalo 14:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * You might want to ping Bishonen. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 14:27, 15 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Good idea, Sandy. Thanks.
 * Peter Isotalo 23:53, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

"Supporting conservatives"
"He has supported moderate conservatives" in the introduction is very misleading.

He has supported both left wing and right wing candidates (including Brazil's left liberal Lula). He favors liberal candidates, both left and right. He opposes dictatorial politicians, both conservative and socialist. All this is stated here: Mario Vargas Llosa: ”Ryktet om den latinska liberalismens död är överdrivet” (Swedish).

He is a classical liberal.  That is essentially the same as market liberal, which is the same as "liberal" or "liberalist" in many European countries and a wider term than "libertarian", which in many European countries means a strict minarchist. Also "liberal democrat" is correct, although U.S. people tend to mix "liberal" with leftist, even though "liberal" originally meant the same as "market liberal". True, liberals originally (1789-1799)sat on the middle-left, whereas socialist including Robespierre and herbertists sat on the far left and conservatives on the right. --Rebaha (talk) 20:11, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately I don't read Swedish. Usually those calling themselves classical liberals today are known as conservative, however. Lula is surely not a classical liberal. Maybe the statement should simply be removed because of that: it may be an oversimplification. Red Bulls Fan (talk) 21:30, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * A similar issue was brought up before, see Talk:Mario Vargas Llosa with no results. --Victor12 (talk) 14:02, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Italics
The names of some of the prizes mentioned in the "Impact" section are italicized, some not. Is this a meaningful difference, or a mistake? Bishonen | talk 13:25, 20 October 2010 (UTC).

Os Sertões byEuclides da Cunha as literary influence
Vargas Llosa's La Guerra del Fin del Mundo (The War of the End of the World) was influenced by Os Sertões (Rebellion in the Backlands), by the Brazilian sociologist Euclides da Cunha. See the studies by Leopoldo M. Bernucci, principally the first: Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 19:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Historia de un malentendido: un estudio transtextual de La guerra del fin del mundo de Mario Vargas Llosa. New York/Bern/Frankfurt am Main/Paris: Lang, 1989.
 * A imitação dos sentidos: prógonos, contemporâneos e epígonos de Euclides da Cunha. São Paulo: EDUSP, 1995.
 * Os sertões, Euclides da Cunha. Annotated edition. São Paulo: Ateliê Arquivo do Estado/Imprensa Oficial, 2001.

Berlin Film Festival
He was a member of the jury at the 34th Berlin International Film Festival, but I'm not sure where this info should go in the article. Source here. Thanks.  Lugnuts  (talk) 14:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem
This article has been reverted by a bot to as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) This has been done to remove User:Accotink2's contributions as they have a history of extensive copyright violation and so it is assumed that all of their major contributions are copyright violations. Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. VWBot (talk) 14:41, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Mentioning dual citizenship in the lead
There seems to be a slow edit war going on between a couple of IP editors regarding the mentioning of Vargas Llosa's citizenship in the lead. According to WP:OPENPARA, the opening paragraph should list among other things "the country of which the person is a citizen or national (according to each nationality law of the countries)". Since he has dual Peruvian-Spanish citizenship, I have reverted to the version listing this and will encourage the combatants to discuss the matter here if they object. Favonian (talk) 21:25, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have already sourced two articles where he is mentioned as being such; The first in an English newspaper and the second in a Peruvian one. If he did not possess Spanish citizenship the King wouldn't have been able to make him a Marquis. 89.168.199.213 (talk) 12:12, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

The "dominant nationality" of Vargas Llosa is the peruvian one. The writer is peruvian by birth, he was candidate to the presidency of Perú in 1990, and even today, he uses his peruvian citizenship, for example, by voting in the latest peruvian general elections of april 10, 2011.--190.8.147.50 (talk) 21:26, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Right. And if you look at other writers of the Latin-American boom, you will see that they too have dual citizenship, Isabel Allende has Chilean and American citizenship, Gabriel Garcia Marquez had both Colombian and Mexican citizenship. Both of these writers are referred to as Chilean and Colombian, not Chilean-American or Mexican-Colombian. And MVLL did most of his work in Peru and even ran as candidate for the Peruvian presidency. He acquired Spanish citizenship many years later after having his fame established. Even if he holds a royal Spanish royal title it would make little or no difference, Wallis Simpson had a royal noble title, married the would-be king of Britain Edward VIII, held British citizenship and lived the rest of her life in Britain, yet she is simply considered an American. Thus it would make more sense if he were to simply be referred to as "Peruvian". (N0n3up (talk) 23:41, 10 March 2016 (UTC))


 * I don't agree with the points of N0n3up. According to WP:OPENPARA, as stated above, the opening paragraph should include, for modern-day cases (which this is; Vargas Llosa is alive and still writing), countries for which the person is a citizen. As is stated and reputably cited multiple times in the article, he has been a Spanish citizen for more than twenty years. He spends most of his time living in Spain. He won the Nobel Prize (which is a singular achievement, given that it's in the opening paragraph) while he was a dual Peruvian-Spanish citizen. He is an elected member of the Royal Spanish Academy. He's a member of the Spanish nobility. Vargas Llosa himself explicitly stated his affinity for both Peru and Spain in his Nobel speech. Unless you're arguing that all of those are unimportant events in Vargas Llosa's life, then by the criteria stated in WP:OPENPARA both citizenships should be referenced in the opening paragraph.


 * In reference to your opinions above on other writers (which I don't agree with), Allende is referred to in her opening WP page as "Chilean-American" (see here). Irregulargalaxies (talk) 02:36, 9 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The same case can be made for Gabriel García Márquez who spent most of his career in Mexico. If you check most of the Wikipedia articles on Llosa in other languages, none of them describe him as "Spanish-Peruvian", but simply "Peruvian". Many biographic Wikipedia articles don't really put much stress on that aspect of WP:OPENPARA. And him being of royal title is not really much of an argument since Wallis Simpson had a royal noble title by marrying the would-be king of Britain Edward VIII, held British citizenship and lived the rest of her life in Britain, yet she is simply considered an American. Not to mention, Llosa ran for president in Peru and he is personally associated with the Latin American Boom for Peru. He is basically world renowned as a Peruvian writer. every article, book, biography of him will describe him as simply "Peruvian". (N0n3up (talk) 06:34, 9 October 2017 (UTC))
 * I do not see any reason to not mention him as Spanish-Peruvian (or Peruvian-Spanish). I would probably do it differently: First to mention him as a Peruvian writer, since it looks like he is best known for the books he has written still being in Peru or at least having only Peruvian citizenship, and then say that he currently resides in Spain and has a dual citizenship.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:53, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea Ymblanter, but mentioning it on the lead would be gratuitous since it's already mentioned on the infobox and the rest of the article. I think this is an additional information to be mentioned in the article anyways which it already is in the infobox. (N0n3up (talk) 21:09, 9 October 2017 (UTC))

"Middle class" ?
I realize I may not be correctly interpreting the use of the term "Middle Class" as used in the article, that the meaning may be different in a different country, etc.; however, is it really correct to say that he was "born into a middle class family?" He describes the house he lived in as a child as being HUGE; when he was a child he had several roomS; they were clearly very well politically-connected; and I believe they owned large amounts of land. It seems to me that they were literally wealthy; and could be described as "upper class" in terms of socioeconomic description. 69.127.212.149 (talk) 16:36, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Prix Formentor
Mayder Dravasa says here that Llosa won the Prix Formentor in 1964 for Time of the Hero. Other sources say it was won by Gisela Elsner for Die Riesenzwerge. It's a bit confusing as there was two prizes that the Formentor Group awarded, the Prix Formentor and the Prix International. They can sometimes both be confused as the 'Prix Formentor'. It's my understanding that Llosa didn't win it but came second. Do your sources concur? Your thoughts are appreciated. Best wishes Span (talk) 07:57, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. This says he lost it the previous year, to Georges Semprun.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 17:28, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * And this (in Catalan) says it went to Semprun in 63 and Elsner in 64. That looks a fairly authoritative source to me, what's more.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 17:31, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and look at the footnote in the Dravasa book: her source is a conversation with Jaime Salinas in 1988. He misremembers, I take it.  --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 17:33, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you're right. All the other sources I have found today say he came second. It's a reminder to self to always interrogate the source. Thanks for checking. Best wishes Span (talk) 18:00, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

"Moderate", "left-wing", "right-wing"
I deleted a biased statement from the lead. It also violated two other rules by not being sourced and by not being discussed in the body of the article. Anything said in the lead is supposed to appear in the body.

The deleted statement said Vargas had supported moderate political parties until siding with the left-wing candidate over the right-wing candidate in the most recent election for president of Peru. This statement is actually flawed as prose because it's ambiguous whether the party descriptions are to be taken as restrictive or nonrestrictive. The more natural interpretation is restrictive. Under this interpretation, the editor is asserting that the left-wing is inherently less moderate than the right wing, which is crass POV. The alternative possible interpretation is that the descriptors "left-wing candidate" and "right-wing candidate" are description only as opposed to being the basis for determining which (if either) of the two candidates was more moderate. Then the fact that there was a candidate to the political left and one to the political right would be an incidental fact of this one election, not a generally determinative factor in all elections or even in all Peruvian elections. However, under this farfetched interpretation also, the statement is identifying one of the candidates as being more moderate, so it is still probably POV. At the very least, it is unsourced. Dale Chock (talk) 20:38, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The Dream of the Celt (Roger Casement)
I never heard of this famous writer until the past few months, since when his new book on the Irish patriot Roger Casement, The Dream of the Celt has received huge coverage. I had hoped this article might have some background to his interest in Casement. Would anybody be able to add something? 109.77.151.160 (talk) 11:02, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Investigatory commision?
In the 'Later life and political involvement' section, this is not clear: 'With his appointment to the Investigatory Commission in 1983...' What Investigatory Comission? I supose it is common knowledge for peruvians, but not everyone is familiarized with it. Nowhere in that paragraph is there an explanation of that comission.--Forich (talk) 04:56, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, the explanation is in a previous section. It was made in the first mention of the commission.  My bad.--Forich (talk) 00:57, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Awards and honors
In 2004, Mario Vargas Llosa was invited to serve as a mentor for the Rolex Mentor and Protégé Arts Initiative, an international philanthropic programme that pairs masters in their disciplines with emerging talents for a year of one-to-one creative exchange. Out of a very gifted field of candidates, he chose Antonio García Ángel as his protégée. RMP2014 (talk) 13:39, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

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FAR needed
This is a well-written article, on an interesting author. However, I think it could need some tender & loving care. There are MOS and accessibility issues with the long lists of works and awards, as well as low-quality sources, such as IMDb. His more recent history (2010s) is rather poorly presented, with lists of trivial and insignificant incidents. We also have some dead links and poorly formated references. This should be able to amend, although it necessitates editors familiar with the sources. Eisfbnore (会話) 11:31, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Sandy Georgia (Talk)  17:53, 5 July 2020 (UTC)