Talk:Mark D. Siljander/Archive 1

Terror indictment
So this news really confuses me... did Siljander convert to Islam or anything? Not that one has to be a Muslim to contribute to such "charities," but I'd imagine it helps. It seems so strange that someone who would object to a Koran reading could change this much. Perhaps it was an act? Anyone know anything? --BDD (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 20:58, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


 * My understanding is that he was in it for the profit rather than The Prophet. (Insert obligatory snide comment about Republican scandals here.) I would be interested in seeing some cited sources, though. TechBear (talk) 21:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice pun, TechBear. Historymike (talk) 23:26, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

A couple of things: Siljander has worked for www.sinterg.com, a top DOD contractor in Iraq specializing in counter-terrorism work and with strong connections with Israel. He still has this and other connections.

Also, as stated, his defense fund is chaired by Ed Meese, at the Heritage Foundation. That can be verified.

There are some hard parts to understand involving money laundering. How do you launder money when it comes from the US Government and you spend it on yourself? Can't they just sue him to get it back? This sounds odd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gpduf (talk • contribs) 23:38, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

In fairness (since he is innocent until proven guilty-- remember?) it is possible is that he was duped into raising money for an Islamic charity and did not know it was actually a terror-funding front.

He was interested in Islamic-Christian reconciliation and could have been taken advantage of / duped by terror funders. He may have thought it was a peaceful Islamic charity.

In any case he is innocent until proven guilty (that's in the U.S. Constitution, remember?).

24.8.106.182 (talk) 21:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * On CNN, they were reporting that he knew where the money was going. Raul654 (talk) 21:47, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

That is incorrect.

On CNN they are reporting that the FBI believes that he knew where it was going. And the FBI has been proven wrong many times in history. Under the law he is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not by the news media. 

Plus subordinates facing charges will often falsely accuse higher-ups in order to get reduced sentences.

24.8.106.182 (talk) 21:51, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia wouldn't let me add a link for the Time Magazine quote I just added. I've tried eight times and I always get an error message. The link is this  www. time .com/time/  magazine/article/  0,9171,954747,00.html  RobRedactor (talk) 23:16, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Try again; the servers seem to be back up now. Wdfarmer (talk) 23:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

In 1989, the Reston Association sued Siljander for having a pontoon boat on Lake Audobon which had pontoons that were two feet longer than the restrictions. Siljander remarked, "Reston oftentimes goes to extremes. It's the intricate balance people are looking for in life."

The NYTimes has lots of articles 1981-1987 in their archives with keyword Siljander. If anyone has a subscription, it would be nice to get a look at some of them. I don't feel like paying the Times for the privilege of looking at the articles. RobRedactor (talk) 01:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Siljander represented the fourth congressional district in Michigan. However, the district has moved around. The territory which he represented is now represented by the sixth congressional district. RobRedactor (talk) 14:52, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry?

No one is saying he is guilty but news is news.....the situation is still of a substantial nature not to merit inclusion. Methinks there is a sockpuppet monitoring this page 24/7. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.116.17.249 (talk) 19:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Siljander was indicted for what his own party has insisted for years was treason. How would the indictment not merit inclusion? TechBear (talk) 20:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The most continuing point is that the US Attorney who wrote the indictment resigned and is under criminal investigation himself, Barry Schlozman.

My favorite part is that the US goverment gave this group millions after the FBI knew one of the members was working for Bin Laden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gpduf (talk • contribs) 01:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Needs Rewrite
This article seems quite unbalanced towards the indictment. A lot of the content does not directly pertain to Siljander. Also, the lead sentence identifies the whole life of the man only in terms of the indictment. Even a quick reading shows there is more to this man. I don't have time at the moment but perhaps someone could rearrange this article to make it more appropriate for an encyclopedia. CarverM (talk) 08:32, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the Mark Foley article would serve as a decent model. It would be nice to include some electoral history, etc. --TrustTruth (talk) 14:44, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Congressional district
Yesterday I corrected an erroneous statement that Mr Siljander was from Michigan's 4th district. He represented the 6th district. Today it was changed back to the wrong district again. If you look at the profiles of his predecessor (David Stockman) and his successor, current congressman Fred Upton, you will find that they are in the 6th district.

Why was this changed back?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.156.36.11 (talk • contribs)


 * Siljander was elected to represent the 4th district. Both his predecessor. David Stockman, and his successor, Fred Upton, were elected to represent the 4th district. Due to congressional redistricting following the 1990 census, Upton was subsequently elected from the 6th district. older ≠ wiser 15:11, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The Time Magazine article from 1981 clearly states that Siljander was elected to represent the fourth congressional district from Michigan. RobRedactor (talk) 16:21, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry:
It has become rather common to use Wikipedia to influence public opinion or even juries. When press releases by prosecution are continually requoted as "fact" by media that simply quotes what they are given we relinquish control over the encyclopedic aspect of Wikipedia and move it into the arena of lazy journalism.

In light of the release of former Gov. Siegelman in Alabama, this case has taken on a very different light. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gpduf (talk • contribs) 04:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Recent editing
A new user and an ip recently made disruptive edits to the article, including deletion of cited material. I have reverted these edits as they are too extensive to address one by one. --TrustTruth (talk) 23:01, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Guilty
Now that he's pled guilty, it might be a good time to clean out the vast swath of justifications and rationalizations that make up the "Controversy" section. http://sify.com/news/former-us-congressman-pleads-guilty-to-terrorist-conspiracy-news-international-khihkfccajf.html 68.33.34.2 (talk) 12:32, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Mark D. Siljander. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070804130211/http://www.churchcouncil.org/Reformationnet/COR/cordocs/Manifesto.pdf to http://www.churchcouncil.org/ReformationNet/COR/cordocs/Manifesto.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080228162300/http://www.georgetowncollege.edu/regents/news/documents/siljnder_lecture_oxford_11_28_06.pdf to http://www.georgetowncollege.edu/regents/news/documents/siljnder_lecture_oxford_11_28_06.pdf

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BLP, OR
I removed the language quoted from the George Wythe University website, with the following justifications:
 * As a BLP, credibly disputed content that could be considered defamatory to the subject should not be included in the article
 * To do justice to the topic, a significant amount of OR would be called for
 * GWU is currently defendant in a lawsuit that specifically targets the language on their website as defamatory and non-factual, and (by their account), protests the illegitimacy of their degree reviews/revocations based on the justifications/process they are using
 * A review of the documentation that GWU provides as evidence of their version of what took place with Siljander over 20 years ago does not actually support their narrative, but rather, supports the notion that Siljander's degree was earned over the course of 2+ years, with work on a project that the college at that time deemed sufficiently meritorious.

Obviously, reasonable people can have serious problems with the whole kit and caboodle, but for the purposes of this BLP, there is sufficient doubt as to the credibility of the GW language, and the facts in dispute, to suggest that editors should steer clear of the topic for the time being, and allow interested parties to do their own research. Perhaps after the lawsuit is settled there will be reliable 3rd party sources who will comment on the whole thing, and then we can revisit the question of how to address and source it. Ibinthinkin (talk) 12:22, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Cleanup
I undertook to earn this article a removal of the two warning tags (sources and long/unreadable). Ibinthinkin (talk) 15:16, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Career
I think the section on his post-Congress career is puffed up with non-notable stuff, and is probably out of date. It feels like it was created by a PR person for Siljander. I'll see if there's anything out there that's citable and relevant to replace it. Maybe just delete that section altogether if he hasn't got anything notable to report since his last run for congress, until the legal problems. Ibinthinkin (talk) 13:12, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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