Talk:Mark Knopfler/Archive 1

Point of clarity proposal
In the article where it says "...Dire Straits went on a lengthy hiatus, with Knopfler concentrating mainly on film soundtracks. " I was confused as I don't know which Knopfler brother the article is talking about. I suppose the article is talking about Mark but since that is the focus but I think it would be more clear if the article referred to Mark Knopfler as Mark instead of Knopfler since there are two Knopfler brothers in Dire Straits. If i'm off base please let me know. :) MD (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:40, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Improving the quality of this article - a concerted effort
Now that this article has been rate "start" on the assessment scale, I fel we now have something clear to work towards. Do you think we could make a concerted effort to improve this article and raise it to at least B standard, then Good article standard? What areas do you think need improving? I think perhaps these need attention:


 * section on musical style - at present restricted to pretty much a list of his guitars
 * more information about his personal life
 * better-flowing and more informative history of his position in Dire Straits

Those are just a few ideas I've had. Has anyone any more to add? Andrew Spinner 07:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Well I think the Mark Knopfler section is great.Compared to the ELO,section.This section has plenty of reference articles and from what I know,being a follower of his work it all seems just about as good as it gets,you could expand the detail. My worry is that we do not want opinion,we want some good evidence of actual real happenings,not 'I heard' this or that,as if told directly to the writer,unless he did and it can be proven. But I am very happy with what I have seen regarding Knopfler,the style and thought quality is very good,much could be learnt from this section. Eloidle

Broken weblink removed
There was a weblink to an unofficial fansite that did not work. If someone knows the correct url they can replace it. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 17:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The website is currently under reconstruction and should be back online very soon.
 * Sounds good the link can be replaced when the site is back online. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 17:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Or, you could leave the link/reference until the site is working again.

Rating
Its length is appropriate for a B class, but I'm leaving its rating at "start" because it appears largely unreferenced. --Bookworm857158367 13:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
Is there really any benefit in listing 14 of the times Knopfler has drunk tea on stage? I'm thinking of perhaps cutting the list down to, say, two or three occasions, including the photo-documented occasion. Any thoughts? Andrew Spinner 22:11, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd be quite comfortable with getting rid of the entry altogether, or simply a statment that he drinks tea on stage (as opposed to water or vodka). I don't think even a short list of two or three occasions is at all useful, with the possible exception of the first time. Orpheus 03:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Duly trimmed. Andrew Spinner 14:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Yankovic's parody
In trivia, the paragraph about Al Yankovic's parody reads: "...He also appeared in the music video, playing guitar and performing with Yankovic's backing band." As far as I know, that is not true - from what I remember Al has never met Mark (Mark simply recorded the riff in his own studio and sent it to Al), and after reviewing the video a moment ago I would swear that it is Al's guitarist Jim West in the backing band, not Mark (the other people are Al, Steve Jay, Bermuda and some long-haired keyboardist who is definitely not Mark). The rest of the paragraph is correct but maybe I'm missing something? - Zenith 22:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

His Album
I think shoud be some people that improved his Discography, Cause I can't do it all by myself.

If anyone can help, please help me.


 * I've been wondering if it would be worthwhile making a completely separate discography page for Mark Knopfler, similar to that which Brian May has here: Brian May discography. Any thoughts? Andrew Spinner 07:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

the Template, I preferred. I think It would better.


 * Oh, find the Screenplaying cover for me, please.* —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.146.63.183 (talk) 09:44, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Addressing most topics here and a link to You Tube
Hello! I agree, the page needs more work before changing it's status, but it could easily become a GA if we work together.
 * Flow- It doesn't completely flow from one paragraph to another. (I'm a professional editor- trying to work on that). If I change someone's wording, please, don't be upset, revert, or erase it, just leave me a note, we can work it out!
 * In the guitar section, I love the admission that MK does use a pick offstage, but whomever placed the link there- you need to email whomever uploaded the You Tube documentary- then you can track down the source in writing. Links to YouTube are forbidden since A)They are here today, and then "account closed" tomorrow, and B) it sounds like a copyright violation.
 * I think MK's notability is proven by the first paragraph. Why are all the collaboration details (names of far too many celebrities listed, and names of all the movies he scored) up top?  Surely, they belong chronologically or else in a section of their own.  What do you think?  --leahtwosaints (talk) 06:57, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that they belong in a different paragraph. No need to use them to try and prove MK's notability - as if he needed such. Andrew Spinner (talk) 15:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Why I Moved MK's use of Sprechgesang/Sprechstimme to "Money for Nothing" song article
Hi. I tightened up the lead and a few sections. First, let me laud everyone who created the article before I went and messed with it :) I found this to be a very informative and well-organized article, and further, I realized there were contributions I could make.

Aside from tightening up several sections (including the lead), I moved the reference to MK's use of Sprechgesang/Sprechstimme to the "Money for Nothing" song article. As I found it, the wording made it appear that Mr. Knopfler (who I've long been a fan of, and had the delightful honor of meeting -- he is incredibly smart and funny as you know if you've ever seen him perform -- but my point is not helped nor hindered by that bit of info, sorry, I digress!).... '''The original wording left the impression that Mr. Knopfler uses the NotQuiteTalking/NotQuiteSinging technique in most of his vocal work. This isn't the case. (I'm not even going to try to spell the German word for this, kudos to whomever it was who introduced the term to this article!) As interesting as the term is, it can certainly be applied to Mr. Knopfler, but only for two songs that come to mind.''' (And I know most of his work). The one applicable song here is the one that most of the general public are most familiar with, "Money for Nothing". I am familiar with most of Mr. Knopfler's work: Dire Straits, solo, collaborative, and film. Of all of his works, Mr. Knopfler uses the talking/singing technique in only 2 songs that I can recall ("Money for Nothing", and "Fade to Black"). Since Money for Nothing has a comprehensive article, I moved the reference to (that lovely German word) to the Money for Nothing article, and I believe it fits seamlessly in context there. (I actually used it to illustrate MK's reasons for using the technique in the song -- though I still give full credit to the editor who introduced the term).

Mr. Knopfler is a bass/tenor (I'm a musician, but I'm no expert in vocal classifications, I know he's one or both of those). '''Bottom line, he sings. In every song. However, he does use the (German technique) on the occasions I've mentioned above. That's why I moved it to what I believe is a more appropriate location on Wikipedia.'''

'''Thanks to the individual who introduced me to the term! I wanted to let you know that it's still here, I just moved it to what I firmly believe is a more appropriate location.''' It's always a learning experience editing on Wikipedia.

--

ManfrenjenStJohn 07:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I am a musican, a savant, an expert in my field, and I know a thing or two about singing. Saying, "he's a tenor or a bass" is the stupidist thing I've ever heard (no offense).  All men are a tenor or a bass of some kind.  Only women, prepubescant boys, and castratos are classified as soprano or alto.


 * Well, men can also be classified as barytone (I should know. I am one). But since it's placed between bass and tenor, it only emphazises the ignorance in saying "tenor or bass". For completeness I would like to mention that women also have a middle-classification: mezzosoprano.--Nwinther (talk) 11:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You mean, "Baritone", which is an intermidate range. I'll give you that it's a valid argument, but still choral music lists SATB, the other distinctions are individual in nature.  To be honest, there's more grey area in this field than black and white.  All singers are pretty much lumped into "high" or "low" for their genders.  Baritone and Bass are somewhat interchangable, but they are both lumped into the category of "B", depending on what the B may stand for, bass or baritone.


 * Baritone is generally the higher end of the bass. As far as musicology is concerned though, there's really only definitively a tenor and baritone/bass.  I have read the treatises from many composers and conductors and no two are alike in that respect.  There's never been a concensus on what is and what is certainly not one or the other.  Some people feel that men who sing in the soprano range should be classified as sopranos, not countertenors.


 * I apologise for the "stupid" comment, I think though you realise it was a little joke. I think what I meant to say is the until a concensus is made (don't hold your breath) that tenor and bass are pretty much the only two things a man can really be. What would I be, I can sing high, or low, (neither well though) but not in between? This part of music theory is really more of art than science still, when I was learning, we kind of just treated the ranges as relative, which is the only true way to distingush them apart.  Soprano is always higher than alto, etc. ReignMan (talk) 08:45, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Knopfler does not sing in a sense, I and other savants have confirmed that many of the things he "sings" are of indefinate pitch. Like toms on a drum set, they have relative pitch, but not definate pitch.  The term must be left in this article. ReignMan (talk) 09:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Guest Appearances
Great work on the article! I'm a big fan of MK and have had the luck to see him perform live. Now he has played with another of my favourite guitarists (Sonny Landreth) on the albums South of I-10 and From the Reach. I'd like to add this to the article but not sure the appropriate section (see Eric Clapton discography) so I'd like to hear what others have to say (or suggest) before I go and add a section. --Omnieiunium (talk) 02:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Nationality
I can't say that I've ever thought of Knopfler as Scottish. He was born in Scotland, granted, but as the article says his family moved to the North-East of England when he was very young, and he spent most of his youth there. Anybody who knows about English accents can just listen to him speak (or sing, for that matter) and know straight away that he's a Geordie! (I imagine that is how he would describe himself, too &mdash; tho' I can't be certain of that.) Anybody disagree? R Lowry 15:59, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Probably fair to call him British unless any interviews can be found where he claims to be either Scottish or English. Rod Stewart was born in England but claims to be Scottish, though his article says he is English. 13/08/05
 * Who says you have to think of him as Scottish?
 * I'd agree with calling him British. Much less confusing. Crimson Shadow 18:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Despite the fact that there is a reference next to the English description....

What on earth does Mark Knopfler's accent have to do with anything? Heritage and birth determine nationality, not an accent that has developed because of where his family moved to. Calling him British is more than fair to those who claim he is a Geordie. Personally, based on his music, I think he is proud of being both Scottish and a Geordie. 82.40.19.192 04:35, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Could we somehow find a solution to this? The constant back and forth is ridiculous and almost disgraceful. I have no idea about the politically correct solution and my search so far has brought up no real proof for either variant. So I have to admit that I'm not really helpful here :-/ Jenser 20:54, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Describing him as British seems most appropriate, to be honest. Clydey 15:30, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree (based on my poor knowledge of the situation), but after several weeks of calm with calling him "British", we had some back and forth recently :-/ Jenser 23:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Must have missed that. I have a feeling it will still continue, in that case, regardless of how he is described. 77.102.8.117 08:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's getting quite irritating. "British" seems to be the safest option. Andrew Spinner 12:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Which passport does he use? Scottish or English? :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.29.232.191 (talk) 11:02, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Mark Knopfler should be described as British and recent edit calling him Scottish should be reverted in my opinion. Paul210 (talk) 05:50, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I see this argument on wiki pages for all kinds of people, including David Knopfler and Dire Straits as a whole. I think it's utterly pointless arguing about whether Mark Knopfler is Scottish or English, because the answer is that whichever he is, he's British. As for heritage, his father's Hungarian, are we going to have a debate about that as well? "Mark Knopfler is a Hungarian guitarist with a Geordie accent who was born in Scotland". Brilliant. I'm half Welsh and half English, but I can't ever recall describing myself as Welsh or as English: I'm British - and that has nothing to do with some profound sense of national identity - that's what it says on my bleeding passport! You don't see entries for Germans identifying them as Bavarian, or for Americans identifying them as Texan; yet Bavaria and Texas have both at one time been states independent of the countries they now help constitute - more recently than Scotland too I might add. It's a concrete, legal fact that both the Knopflers are British! 213.121.151.174 (talk) 15:32, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Dave Edmunds?
I have on my computer an album where Knopfler played with Dave Edmunds (who had that one hit, "I Hear You Knockin" a cover of some 50s blues song). I do not see this on the discography. Can anyone enlighten me if this is not, in fact, a real album, or if the discography is missing the entry?

Thanks. --67.42.33.65 11:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think this is a reference to The Booze Brothers album, which was recorded in 1973 but nor released until 1989. The album is included under "other albums" in discography on the page.Cjc13 (talk) 15:41, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

mark is scottish not english and thats why english people say he,s british if its scottish and good its british if its english then its english people need to grow up he is scottish just like peter pan sherlock holmes

Django Reinhardt as an influence
Possibly - the soundtrack to Metroland contains a historical recording of Django, along with MK's music. Zapiens 01:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure Mark has said Django is an influence, Chet Atkins yes, but not Django. Qjamesfloyd (talk) 15:05, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You will need a reference if you wish to include Django Reinhardt as an influence, however, if it's not possible, one can always include the sound of Reinhardt's influence in Knopfler's music in the text.--Leahtwosaints (talk) 10:27, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

about his guitars
While he usually plays strat type guitars, I don't think he usually played fender strats. And he also did some recordings with Gibson Les Paul guitars. +MATIA &#9742; 10:46, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I would suggest mention be made of his fondness for National steel guitars; he has in many interviews mentioned that he developed an affinity for National resonator guitars early in his career, and they have been featured on some of his most popular songs, including "Romeo and Juliet", as well as being featured on the cover photo of "Brothers in Arms".


 * Knopfler played Strats exclusively for many years. Sultans of Swing was recorded on a Fiesta Red 1961(?forgot the exact year though) Stratocaster.  Knopfler also owns a 1956 sunburst Strat with the rare ashtray bridge still intact.  He played the Pensa-Suhr for the first time at the Nelson Mandella 70th birthday concert if I recall correct.  He also has a Schecter Telecaster.


 * He's only used a Les Paul on one song, as I recall, Money For Nothing. Other than that, I've never heard of him using a Les Paul. ReignMan (talk) 09:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * OK- there are several models of guitars he has used- most certainly, the Fender Stratocaster, and the one I recall best from his early days especially.. the Fender Telecaster --leahtwosaints (talk) 03:03, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

The Strat is by far the most obvious guitar associated with Knopfler (the Dire Straits logo in the 70's had a strat in it). I disagree with the comment about the Telecaster...it was not used often. He grew quite fond of the MK Pensa Suhr's and continues to use them today. Yes, he started playing the Les Paul on the Brothers in Arms album but he still uses it extensively in his solo career....and of course the National Resonator with it's picture on the cover of the Brothers in Arms album is one of his signature guitars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NWBergen (talk • contribs) 01:41, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

---

As far as I know, the origin of Knopfler's family is Hungarian. His ancestors have emigrated from Miskolc, Hungary, I really don't know when. Mark was already born in the UK, of course.

Peter 2005.11.01

In the book Northstars (978 1903506 097), based on Tyne Tees TV interviews with north eastern musicians, the chapter on Mark Knopfler cites biographer Michael Oldfield comments that Mark Knopfler's father was "a Hungarian Jewish Communist architect who fled the Nazi's to England in 1939." The inference is that his father left Hungary to avoid Nazi persecution of Jews in Hungary. StAnn68 (talk) 17:27, 11 June 2010 (UTC)StAnns68

Martin 11th June 2010

---

The fact that Knopfler thinks of himself as a Geordie is strongly supported by the existence of titles referring to "Geordieland" - especially on "The Ragpicker's Dream" - as in "Why Aye Man" ("times were tough in Geordieland ... humped it up from Newcastle to here ... I miss my river Tyne") or in "Fare Thee Well Northumberland" ("Roll on, Geordieboy, roll on"). 195.140.122.22 16:13, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

-- If you're born in Scotland you are Scottish.

Eileen


 * What a silly comment. Gazh 20:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Knopfler says that he was influenced by Scottish dance music
The Times, 2 May 2010:

''Now Mark Knopfler, the former Dire Straits frontman, has revealed that his musical inspiration came from the less glamorous surroundings of Fife — the home of Jimmy Shand, the traditional Scottish accordionist... While other guitarists were honing their skills by listening to the blues guitarists of the Mississippi Delta, the 60-year-old said he was in thrall to Scottish dance music. Knopfler, who was born in Glasgow and moved to Tyneside when he was about seven, has credited the music of Shand for giving his compositions a Celtic tinge. “Sometimes people ask me how I make Celtic music. Where does that come from?” said Knopfler. “Growing up in Glasgow, as well as Newcastle, there were always Jimmy Shand records in my grandmother’s home, so the sound of Celtic music always seems familiar to me. Jimmy Shand was a big one for me.” Knopfler, who composed the haunting soundtrack to the 1983 film Local Hero, said that there was a strong musical tradition in his family. His uncle Freddie was a piper with the Black Watch, and was killed in action in France in 1940.''

- "When Phil Cunningham Met Mark Knopfler will be broadcast on BBC 2 Scotland at 10pm on Monday, May 10" --Mais oui! (talk) 05:29, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * No idea how that can be used, but trivia sections and plans for events (record releases, tours, etc) should wait until notable refs are available to confirm that such events have occured, merging all info into the text, providing that it is properly referenced. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 00:07, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Revert
Thanks to Bede735 for catching the screwed-up column formatting from my final edit last night. However, the revert restored quite a bit of uncited material that should not be up on the page.

So I went back and pulled the uncited material back down and fixed the column situation. If there's any more reverting, I'm hopeful that it will be more precise and that we can first have a discussion about whether the sources provided for the restored material are up to WP standards. — Bdb484 (talk) 17:14, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Referenced or not, I don't think the article benefited from having so much material about Knopfler's guitars and equipment. Thanks for removing all of that! What would be good, though, is if some reliable source can be found to support a description of Knopfler's musical style, which was also removed as unreferenced. Binksternet (talk) 19:58, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd agree on both points. Information on his playing style is actually why I came to the article in the first place. I'm sure there's something out there, but I'm not as sure that the unsourced material we had up there was accurate. — Bdb484 (talk) 01:04, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

British or English or Scottish? Please take part in the RfC
Talk:Dire Straits

See you there. Binksternet (talk) 23:48, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Citation needed
When this article says that Mark Knopfler is left-handed but plays the guitar right-handed, it says "Citation needed". This observation about Mark Knopfler was mentioned on the BBC Radio Four series Loose Ends on November 17, 2018. Vorbee (talk) 18:31, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Pronunciation
How do you pronounce his surname? Are the K and the P silent? — Kpalion(talk) 14:11, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The K is silent but the P is not. Vorbee (talk) 18:31, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. — Kpalion(talk) 14:23, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

keep
per wp:preserve putting here, i cut from lede, its undue, unsourced, and promotional. He has worked with musicians including B.B. King, Chet Atkins, Chris Botti, John Anderson, the Chieftains, Eric Clapton, Bob Dylan, Elton John, Joan Armatrading, Bryan Ferry, George Jones, Phil Lynott, Donal Lunny, Van Morrison, Steely Dan, Sting, Emmylou Harris and James Taylor, sometimes working as a session musician.

I guess it is covered somewhere else in the article. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 15:02, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2022
Hello, I would like to request that the pages Mark Knopfler and David Knopfler be changed from "British" to "Scottish". Both were born in Glasgow, Scotland (making them Scottish). Both had immediate family in Scotland and both were raised in Scotland to the age of 3. Mark and David said on XE podcast that they both prefer to be called Scottish rather than British. 2A01:4C8:1489:689:1:2:3FA5:ECB7 (talk) 11:44, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:19, 27 March 2022 (UTC)