Talk:Mark Rashid

horse_whisperer??
Please, how does this relate??

Thank You,

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 14:25, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

"Horse whisperer" is a popular nickname given to assorted western horse trainers within the broad category of natural horsemanship trainers. Rashid is classed in this group by a lot of folks, though he doesn't seem to say much about it one way or the other, as far as I can tell from his public writings. Montanabw (talk) 18:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Passive Leadership
In "A Good Horse is Never a Bad Color" Mark describes a horse he owned named Buck who horses willingly chose to follow rather than the boss horses who ruled with an iron fist that the other horses tried to avoid. His training philosophy is based on being a "passive leader" like Buck instead of a boss horse. Mark is different than any other trainer that I have run across in this respect. Mark has written several books on his "passive leadership" philosophy and thus my contribution is completely accurate and relevant.

Oh, and Mark doesn't like to classify himself as a "natural horsemanship" trainer and believes the term is a little silly. See http://www.markrashid.com/blog.html (sorry, no permalink on the website, so this link may go dead after some time). Roddefig (talk) 04:33, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

(Edit, adding citations). The following is from "Horses Never Lie: The Heart of Passive Leadership".

At any rate, I chose that title [passive leader] because the horse in question wasn't one that would force its way into the leadership role. Instead, the horse was chosen by members of the herd as the one they wanted to follow.

[...]

The question then is, how do we get our horses to want to choose us as a leader? It has been my observation that before a horse (or person) can even be considered as a passive leader, it must first exhibit the qualities that make it desirable for it to be chosen. These qualities are quiet confidence, dependability, consistency, and a willingness not to use force.

Years ago when I worked with the old man, I noticed he had a way of going that made everything he did seem very comfortable. He, too, led by example, much as the passive leaders within horse herds seem to. He was always considerate and thoughtful with both horses and people and never used force with either unless it was in self-defense. The horses on his place responded very positively to his way of going, and as a result, his horses were consistently willing, responsive, and friendly. Looking back, I guess I just figured that was the way all horse people were. But as I grew older, I came to find that wasn't the case. Many people don't hesitate to exert their dominance over their horses. It's these folks who seem to have horses that are untrusting, unwilling, and sometimes defensive in nature. Roddefig (talk) 05:10, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Agree that Rashid doesn't like the term and isn't part of the usual cult of practitioners, but then some of the others don't like the term either. Thanks for the blog link, I think we can work that into the article. Back in the 1970s and early 80s, dressage was the "natural" way to gently train horses, Ray Hunt was "that guy who does the bridleless stuff" and few had ever heard of the Dorrance brothers.  So fads change.  I happen to personally like Rashid's way of thinking better than most of the other current western trainer NH-crowd, I agree with Rashid's views more often than not, which is one reason I created this article in the first place.    Montanabw (talk) 06:28, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * However, that said, it isn't like Rashid is saying anything that hasn't been known before. Classical dressage trainers have been training with this sort of thinking for centuries, starting with Xenophon and later, Francois Robichon de la Guérinière (obviously, there were also cruel practitioners as well, then as now, but the best have always emphasized partnership in some form), and places like the Spanish Riding School.   I can cite dressage works from the early 20th century (people like Alois Podhajsky, Henry Wynmalen, Nuno Oliveira and more recently, Paul Belasik) that encourage the same concepts,  So Rashid isn't the first or only "gentle method" trainer.  Not even the first in the western horsemanship tradition.  (Charles O. Williamson, writing back in the 1930s, had a lot of the same basic ideas)  That said, Rashid is a good writer and says what he says very well with an injection of common sense that is much needed.  I also like the way he puts old concepts into a new light, and the concept of "passive leadership" is quite descriptive and helpful. So what I am doing here is just getting everyone past the "everybody was cruel to horses in the bad old days" thing.  I admit, there were some bad old days in the western tradition (and others as well) but there were a few humane practitioners even in the west, and looking worldwide, particularly in parts of western Europe, there were even more who were teaching and writing about the same ideas 100 years ago and more.  That's where I'm coming from here.   Montanabw (talk) 06:28, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

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