Talk:Mark Reed (sculptor)

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Edit requests 19 April 2023

 * What I think should be changed: In Paragraph 2 of Biography removal of the line "In 2002 Mark made Penshurst Dining Table for Fortnum & Mason, London" and the accompanying citation Elliot, Sue (November 2003). "Rich Pickings". Style Magazine: 20. Also removal of the image Sidney's oak tree table – bronze and glass
 * Why it should be changed:It should be removed as the sentence is not relevant and could be seen as advertising . Removal of the image Sidney's oak tree table – bronze and glass as there are already too many images on the page.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 14:30, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

During this period he worked mainly within the sphere of furniture and interior design, but then turned his attention to sculpture, setting up a foundry in his studio and thus began casting his own bronzes. Should be changes to: Reed casts all of his bronze sculpture himself in his studio.
 * What I think should be changed: In the second paragraph of Biography, the sentence:
 * Why it should be changed: The sentence is overlong, and the factual citation from refers only to the fact that Reed casts his own bronzes in studio.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 15:17, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

I made these changes, They seem reasonable. When creating these edit requests there is a place to put in a subject. Just put in anything that describes the desired change. Even "Edit request" and the date. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 23:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Dear Richard,
 * Thank you so much for your help with this and I really value your opinion and help. I have made some further changes and would be enormously grateful for your help again. With very best wishes
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 10:02, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Citation question
In the second paragraph of the Biography section it mentions and it was at this time that Derek Pullen, Head of Sculpture Conservation, Tate Collections described Reed's Leaf Chair in cast aluminium as "a very well resolved and elegant design." Is this taken from Design Times: 43. March–April 2001? Richard-of-Earth (talk) 00:00, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 21/4/23- Removal of image and sentence in paragraph 2 of biography

 * What I think should be changed:removal of the quotation "and it was at this time that Derek Pullen, Head of Sculpture Conservation, Tate Collections described Reed's Leaf Chair in cast aluminium as "a very well resolved and elegant design" in paragraph 2 of Biography. Also removal of the image of the Leaf Chair
 * Why it should be changed: I cannot find the original source, although it was quoted in Design Times, since I do not have the evidence to back this up, I think it better to remove the quotation entirely. Since the page suffers from too many images, removal of the Leaf Chair image.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 10:15, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Request seems to have already been implemented. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 16:54, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 21/4/23- Removal of image and sentence in paragraph 3 of biography
To: Reed created a Giant Stainless Steel Fork with the etching Catherine de'Medici 1564' and 'STAINLESS STEEL' sold at Christie's London as an homage to Catherine de Medici ( who was very important to the introduction of the fork to French High Society, making it a socially acceptable part of dining etiquette) and Sheffield, the City of cutlery, birthplace and childhood home of Reed's father.
 * What I think should be changed: This is over wordy and can be seen as advertising, I propose changes from "Mark's work including tree tables, monumental trees, stainless steel spoon sculpture and his Giant Stainless Steel Fork with etched signature to the rear 'Mark Reed VI', also 'Catherine de'Medici 1564' and 'STAINLESS STEEL', set into a weighted base has been auctioned at 'Out of the Ordinary' Christie's, London. The 'Catherine de Medici 1564' inscription was a unique feature to this fork. Catherine de Medici was very important to the introduction of the fork to French High Society, making it a socially acceptable part of dining etiquette. In 1564 on her 'Grand Tour de France' she spent two years travelling across France with the aim of unifying her Kingdom and thus spreading the use of the fork across the land. The fork was made of 316 marine grade solid stainless steel and cast in Sheffield, the City of cutlery, birthplace and childhood home of Reed's father." Also removal of the image of the Fork
 * Why it should be changed:This is over wordy and can be seen as advertising, if the editor thinks it better, completely remove everything about the Fork. Remove image of the Fork, as there are too many images on the page.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 10:38, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Request seems to have already been implemented. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 16:54, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 21/4/23 Changes to wording

 * What I think should be changed: Change :In December 2015 Reed delivered his Arbour Metallum monumental tree sculpture measuring 3.5m tall and 3m wide and weighting 1 tonne, on an epic 2,500-mile journey to Athens, Greece on a trailer behind his 1989 VW camper van. The steel tree with over 1000 stainless steel leaves had been commissioned by the Coupelouzos Family Art Museum and Reed's sculpture travelled through France, the Mont Blanc tunnel, Switzerland and Italy to the Greek city. to "In December 2015 Reed delivered his Arbour Metallum monumental tree sculpture 2,500 miles from the UK to Athens, Greece on a trailer behind his 1989 VW camper van. "
 * Why it should be changed:Too over wordy and irrelevant
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 11:16, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting keep.svg Go ahead: I have reviewed these proposed changes and suggest that you go ahead and make the proposed changes to the page. Actualcpscm (talk) 11:51, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Dear Actualcpscm, many thanks for your time in looking at changes which I have made and i really appreciate your help,
 * Kind Regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 13:14, 4 May 2023 (UTC)


 * What I think should be changed: In the second paragraph of biography I would like to change "Reed launched his nature inspired range of furniture in 1999 at Decorex, London[3] " to "Reed initially designed nature inspired furniture"
 * Why it should be changed: Irrelevant about Decorex.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 13:46, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

I went ahead and did this. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 05:44, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Edit request: Addition of information regarding public sculpture 11/05/23
More recently Reed has created public work in the UK, his concerns about climate change prompted his 10 metre Wave installation (2021) and the sale of many of the 3,000 fish raised thousands of pounds for Norwich Cathedral Charities. His monumental Tree of Life sculpture (2022), was designed to celebrate life, with over 2,000 patinated stainless steel leaves which can be engraved, currently raising funds for Kings Lynn Hospital's League of Friends.
 * What I think should be changed: Addition of information about Mark Reed's more current public sculpture to form Paragraph 4 of Biography:


 * Why it should be changed:Further information about his work and its contribution to the community
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 16:30, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

I added this with different citations for second sentence. The citation you used is not independent and would be considered WP:PRIMARY. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 05:44, 13 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Dear Richard,
 * Again,
 * Many thanks for your help in editing this article and for your invaluable advice. I am very grateful,
 * Kind Regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 11:31, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Edit request: Addition of citation 06/06/23
In Sculpture section, at the end of sentence 1 addition of citation
 * What I think should be changed:
 * Why it should be changed:3rd party reference
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 12:42, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

This looks fine. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 04:36, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Removal of sentence 6/6/23
With this knowledge, within Mark's work, trees become tables, and natural forms are channelled to become functional items in bronze, aluminium or forged steel.
 * What I think should be changed:In sculpture, first paragraph, removal of the sentence:


 * Why it should be changed: Not relevant
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 12:47, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

This looks fine. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 04:36, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 16:54, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Addition of information relating to public work 6/6/23
Change : "Mark is intrigued by intangible configurations as well, particularly in how an entity exists as an component in a hierarchy of cooperatives." to: "Mark is intrigued by intangible configurations as well, particularly in how an entity exists as an component in a hierarchy of collectives and this was evidenced in Reed's monumental immersive breaking Wave of 3,000 fish. The sculpture, created for The Natural History Museum's Dippy on Tour at Norwich Cathedral was at first glance an installation of great beauty, but litter was scattered amongst the fish- a striking reminder of the damage currently being done to our planet. The piece was a meditation of life on earth, from its origins in very distant past to our own day, a reminder of the total dependence all life on this planet has on the generative powers of water and an admonition to heed the warnings of nature." Hannahlucy100 (talk) 13:29, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * What I think should be changed: Sculpture section, paragraph 1.
 * Why it should be changed: More relevant as this is newer work.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

This looks fine. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 04:36, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Addition of image relating to more current sculpture 18/06/2023
Ammonite Slice Secret Garden Door Tree Planter Addition of File:Wave sculpture installation by Mark Reed during flood at Norwich Cathedral, Natural History Museum's Dippy on Tour.jpg which is already uploaded to Wikipedia.
 * What I think should be changed:Deletion of images from page as far too many, addition of images relating to more current sculpture, therefore deletion of :


 * Why it should be changed:Deletion of images from page as far too many, addition of images relating to more current sculpture
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 14:17, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

This looks fine. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 04:36, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Addition of content about newer artwork Tree of Life sculpture 26/06/2023, edited as requested by editors 30/06/2023
Addition in paragraph 2 of: Reed recently sculpted the Tree of Life, 'a 4.5 metre by 4.9 metre tree in stainless steel with 2,000 detachable Oak Leaves which can be engraved and is raising money for the Kings Lynn Hospital League of Friends, to buy specialist equipment and fund projects to enhance the environment and further improve patient care. Reed wanted to create a "place for commemoration and a space for quiet reflection and even joy amongst our most difficult days." Reed has personal connections to the hospital, as he lost his father from cancer at the QEH but also wanted the sculpture to reflect the joy and celebration of life that is experienced too, as his first son was born there. |url=https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/20639159.sculptors-steel-tree-carry-thousands-messages-hospital/ |access-date=26 June 2023 |agency=Eastern Daily Press |publisher=Archant |date=13th November 2021}} |url=https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/20630901.monumental-sculpture-installed-norfolk-hospital-families-staff |access-date=26 June 2023 |agency=Eastern Daily Press |publisher=Archant |date=13th March 2022}} Reed was inspired to make his first tree in 2006 after seeing the exposed windswept trees on the Norfolk coast resolutely facing incoming storms, really a metaphor for the trails of life, and he sees it as "a protector, from the heat of the sun, creating a dappled shade, as nature protects and nourishes us." Hannahlucy100 (talk) 19:05, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * What I think should be changed:
 * Why it should be changed: Addition of newer artwork
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):


 * What I think should be changed:
 * Why it should be changed' 'This supports the text referring to the Tree of Life sculpture Tree of Life sculpture in stainless steel by Mark Reed for Queen Elizabeth Hospital Kings Lynn NHS trust
 * Why it should be changed:

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 19:25, 26 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Note: This is quite a mess format-wise. Text is bolded where it shouldn't be, the image you linked doesn't exist, empty reflists... You also restored this bit of flattery after I had removed it earlier. Reviewers are not going to want to tackle requests that are formatted this badly. Throast  {  { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 20:21, 26 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Dear Throast
 * Many thanks for your help with editing the page Mark Reed (sculptor) I totally agree that this is a mess format wise and I don't quite know how it was such a numpty as to have it all in Bold, a mistake that was very stupid! In terms of the flattery issue I thought as I it has been approved been a previous editor and had a citation from several 3rd party sources ( which for some reason have not appeared on the request )See attached:
 * https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/20630901.monumental-sculpture-installed-norfolk-hospital-families-staff/
 * https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/20639159.sculptors-steel-tree-carry-thousands-messages-hospital/
 * https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2022-03-12/huge-sculpture-installed-at-norfolk-hospital-to-bring-joy-on-difficult-days
 * I entirely agree that there were too many images on the page and thank you for your kind editorial.
 * I really don't want this to be a piece of flatterery and hence i have been kindly guided by other editorial comments which made me reinstate the paragraph to which you are referring and have only used 3rd party evince to substantiate this
 * Please see attached:
 * https://www.edp24.co.uk/things-to-do/20645791.see-stunning-wave-sculpture-norwich-cathedral/
 * https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/things-to-do/22343354.see-stunning-wave-sculpture-norwich-cathedral/
 * https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/things-to-do/22338798.want-piece-dippy-exhibition-chance/
 * The tree of life sculpture is raising money for the Kings Lynn Hospital League of Friends and the leaves that are sold ( very few left ) are raising  money for the Norwich cathedral Exhibition Fund however this seems to me to be not flattery  but he genuinely wants to raise money and I have also not mentioned this in the text as I feel it would be seen wrongly.
 * I agree that I have asked for some more edits and am very very worried that the whole page is too close to me and I'm not subjective, please can you advise on what I need to do to stop any unsubstantiated subjective opinions on Reed's work and make sure it doesn't come across as advertising, I genuinely don't want it be this. I really really really want it be a genuine Wikipedia article on Mark Reed and would value you being utterly brutal on it to make it so. Please tell me how I can do this, with vey kind and appreciative regards Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 18:25, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Throast,
 * Many thanks for your comments and help and I'm terribly sorry that it was such a mess format wise. I have now edited the text and format as you advised and added further third party refences with regards to the sculpture. I am extremely grateful for the time that you give so freely and all your help with this article.
 * With kind and appreciative regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 10:32, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Removal of a sentence as irrelevant and outdated 26/6/23
In August 2013, Reed made a Spoon Sculpture to public commission for a hospital in Welwyn, Herts and in July 2013, he was commissioned to make A Bridge to Success for the Prince of Wales and The Prince's Trust at Sandringham Flower Show.
 * What I think should be changed: Removal of the following sentence:
 * Why it should be changed: Irrelevant and dated
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 19:28, 26 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Please clarify why this "dated" information suddenly needs removing. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 19:47, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Dear Mattdaviesfsic,
 * Many thanks for your help with this article and the time you give so freely to help with articles. I wrongly called this dated and this was not a correct title for the edit request as you point out, I felt that although this sentence is true, and Mr Reed did indeed do the above, since there are no third party citations to support this it should not be included as it could be seen as subjective which, since there is a conflict of interest issue I want to avoid at all costs.
 * I would be incredibly grateful for your editorial opinion on this and if you feel it should remain, I will, of course be guided by your knowledge and help.
 * With kind and appreciative regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 10:38, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Addition of image relating the requested text with regards the Tree of Life Sculpture for Queen Elizabeth Hospital Kings Lynn 1/7/23

 * What I think should be changed:The addition of the image relates tot he text for the more current artwork of the Tree of Life Sculpture for Queen Elizabeth Hospital Kings Lynn NHS Trust and supports this article as visual media
 * Why it should be changed: Supporting the article's text as visual media
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 17:03, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * did you take this picture yourself? Richard-of-Earth (talk) 07:24, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Addition of information with regards to more recent public installation with several 3rd party citations

 * What I think should be changed: This is additional information relating to a public installation with many 3rd party citations referencing the artwork. Addition in paragraph 2 of sculpture: Reed recently sculpted the Tree of Life', a 4.5 metre by 4.9 metre tree in stainless steel with 2,000 detachable Oak Leaves which can be engraved and is currently raising money for the Kings Lynn Hospital League of Friends, to buy specialist equipment and fund projects to enhance the environment and further improve patient care. Reed wanted to create a "place for commemoration and a space for quiet reflection and even joy amongst our most difficult days." Reed has personal connections to the hospital, as he lost his father from cancer at the QEH but also wanted the sculpture to reflect the joy and celebration of life that is experienced too, as his first son was born there. Reed was inspired to make his first tree in 2006 after seeing the exposed windswept trees on the Norfolk coast resolutely facing incoming storms, really a metaphor for the trails of life, and he sees it as "a protector, from the heat of the sun, creating a dappled shade, as nature protects and nourishes us." [1]

Why it should be changed: Addition of newer public artwork with several citations from 3rd party sources


 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Hannahlucy100 (talk) 21:11, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * This seems to have an WP:UNDUE amount of detail. Perhaps:
 * Reed recently sculpted the Tree of Life', a 4.5 metre by 4.9 metre tree in stainless steel with 2,000 detachable Oak Leaves which can be engraved and is currently raising money for the Kings Lynn Hospital League of Friends. Reed has personal connections to the hospital, as he lost his father from cancer at the hospital and his first son was born there.
 * Richard-of-Earth (talk) 07:35, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Richard
 * Thank you so much and so sorry for the delay in returning your kind editorial,
 * I would be delighted to have your editorial suggestion. Do i go ahead and do it and add the picture as above or will you do you do this?
 * Kind Regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 16:34, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Reply 3-JUL-2023
Regards, Spintendo  03:31, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) The requested image was added to the page.
 * 2) Additional copyedits were made for tone and clarity.


 * Dear Spintendo,
 * Thank you so much for your editorials and inclusion of the New York Times article citation with regards Reed's Serving Ace Meeting Tree that I was going to ask to be added today! Thanks so much, I really appreciate all of your time and help.
 * I notice that the error messages that said that there were problems with the page have been removed and if that was you, many thanks for removing this.
 * There is still an message saying:
 * A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. It may require cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies, particularly neutral point of view. Please discuss further on the talk page. (April 2023) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)
 * As you, Richard of Earth, theroadislong, Throast and ColinFine have kindly looked through the piece and made it adhere to Wikipedia policies and taken away all subjective and non citation sentences, ( for which I am enormously grateful), is there any chance that this could be removed?
 * Again, thank you all so much for all your time and help!
 * Kind Regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 12:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Once you stop editing the article, the template could be removed. Theroadislong (talk) 12:52, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The description of the template and when to remove it is at Template:COI. Not necessarily when you stop editing, but when consensus is reached that the article is not biased by it and will stay that way. It seems you intend to keep adding Reed's new projects, so it is likely to stay. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 17:42, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Richard-of-earth,
 * Many thanks for all your help over the last several years.
 * I am most grateful for your help, I have no intention to edit the article apart from to request an edit in the template for an image of the Serving Ace (Wimbledon) tree to be included. As a visual art it backs up the text that Spintendo so kindly included. Unfortunately I only currently have an image that is copywritten by AELTC but they have allowed this to be used with accreditation. However, I think it best to use an image that has been taken by myself, this will not be available until 14th July to request to be added on the template. I have no intention to make further edits and would never do so without use of the request edit template.
 * This is the only edit I wish to ask for now or in the future and once again would value your opinion and help with this. I am extraordinarily indebted to you and all your fellow editors for your help,
 * Kind Regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 12:51, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Theroadislong,
 * Many thanks for all your help, for removing the advert template and for so graciously agreeing to re-evaluate the article after Spintendo made the copyedits.
 * I am most grateful for your help, I have no intention to edit the article apart from to request an edit in the template for an image of the Serving Ace (Wimbledon) tree to be included. As a visual art it backs up the text that Spintendo so kindly included. Unfortunately I only currently have an image that is copywritten by AELTC but they have allowed this to be used with accreditation. However, I think it best to use an image that has been taken by myself, this will not be available until 14th July to request to be added on the template.
 * This is the only edit I wish to ask for now or in the future and once again would value your opinion and help with this. I am extraordinarily indebted to you and all your fellow editors for your help,
 * Kind Regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 12:48, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Hannahlucy100 The thanks for removing the advert template should go to Theroadislong, who graciously agreed to re-evaluate the article after I made some copyedits for tone. I agree with them that the COI template should remain until it's clear that no more editing is being done without the use of the template. For now, attention should be placed on shoring up references already in the article (missing details like the title in one and a hyperlink to another) while continuing to scour the internet for WP:RS to bulk up the references section. Regards,  Spintendo  10:50, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Spintendo,
 * Thank you so much for all your editing, help and advice. I am most grateful for your help, I have no intention to edit the article apart from to request an edit in the template for an image of the Serving Ace (Wimbledon) tree to be included. As a visual art it backs up the text that Spintendo so kindly included. Unfortunately I only currently have an image that is copywritten by AELTC but they have allowed this to be used with accreditation. However, I think it best to use an image that has been taken by myself, this will not be available until 14th July to request to be added on the template.
 * This is the only edit I wish to ask for now or in the future, would only ever use the request edit template and once again would value your opinion and help with this. I am extraordinarily indebted to you and all your fellow editors for your help,
 * Kind Regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 12:57, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Notability
It is not clear how this person passes the criteria at WP:NARTIST? Theroadislong (talk) 12:57, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Criteria 4 "The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument". His pieces get some coverage. It is a judgement call if they are "significant" enough. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 17:56, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Theroadislong I don't believe that they meet WP:BASIC, but with the installation of one of their works at the entrance of Wimbledon, they do meet #4 under WP:ARTIST. Spintendo  10:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Spintendo,
 * Many thanks for your help and information on this point and thank you for letting me know ( thankfully) that you consider that with the Serving Ace meeting Tree at the entrance to Wimbledon outside Court Number 1 means that Reed does meet #4 under WP: ARTIST. I really value all of your opinion.
 * Please see attached further coverage on this sculpture [Https://ustoday.news/artists-honor-wimbledon-with-sculptures-paintings-and-more/ https://ustoday.news/artists-honor-wimbledon-with-sculptures-paintings-and-more/]
 * https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-12264121/COURT-REPORT-16-year-old-star-Mirra-Andreeva-proved-shes-newest-prodigy-womens-tennis.html
 * https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2023-07-02/the_wimbledon_flora_a_potted_history.html
 * Many thanks for your help again and kind regards
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 13:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Spintendo,
 * Also this, I don't know whether it counts as it is directly from the Wimbledon Comms?
 * Kind Regards
 * Hannah
 * Hannahlucy100 (talk) 13:11, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Please note that The Daily Mail cannot be used as a reference it is not reliable ever. The www.wimbledon.com source is primary so also of no use. Theroadislong (talk) 13:12, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Totally agree re Daily Mail and slightly cringing that its in the Daily Mail!!!!
 * Are the other references of any use ( NY Times, US Today? ) Also I've been told it's been featured on the BBC TV but don't know how or where to access such as I didn't see it?
 * Many thanks
 * Hannah Hannahlucy100 (talk) 16:24, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There is consensus that USA Today is generally reliable I don't know about US Today? Theroadislong (talk) 16:30, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Theroadislong USToday.news is published by Muck Rack, a PR firm that states on their website "Muck Rack's Public Relations Management platform provides a single source of truth for your entire PR workflow." I'm guessing that USToday, as one of their properties, is a part of that 'workflow'. From their description I wouldn't expect it to be very reliable, and whatever news they've gleaned from other sites just to place on their own website is just that—which is no better than WP:HEARSAY. Spintendo  17:49, 7 July 2023 (UTC)