Talk:Mark Thatcher

Misc.
A few things I discovered in browsing the web but don't have time to add just now...


 * In 1982, Thatcher caused a minor stir in the press when he got lost during a desert automobile race and went missing for 6 days.
 * There is another prominent Mark Thatcher, inventor of the Teva Sandal.
 * And yet another Mark Thatcher is a professor at the London School of Economics.


 * I added the stuff about Mark Thatcher getting lost on the Paris Dakar Rally some time ago. We didn't have a MT page then, I'll copy it now Mintguy (T)

He was declared missing on 12 January according to the BBC, where does the 9 January date come from? Mintguy (T)


 * Ahh... I see it says he was last seen 2 days earlier. Mintguy (T) 01:04, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Baronetcy
How can he be 2nd Baronet when his mother's not dead yet? -- The Anome 10:14, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see now, he inherited it from his father; it's a special-case heriditary Baronetcy. -- The Anome 10:17, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * That's right, his father was 1st Baronet. It isn't really "special-case", then, unless you mean that it is likely that Denis Thatcher's baronetcy was created essentially in honor of Margaret's achievements.  That seems likely to be the case, but I would imagine that the Letters Patent on this thing are pretty standard.  Look it me, I'm suddenly an Anglophile! Jimbo Wales 14:49, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Baroness has NOTHING to do with Baronetcy. A life peer is necessarily a Baron, although they are addressed as "Lord A, Baron of X" and never "Baron X".  The female version is Lady, although females life peers in their own right, by recent tradition, go by the title of Baroness to distinguish themselves from being merely the wife of a Baron.  In contrast a Baronet is not a peer, noble or whatever you want to call it.  It is a heriditary and senior version of a Knighthood. Dainamo 00:23, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I believe Denis was awarded the Baronetcy precisely in order that Mark would inherit it. Davokills

Is Mark Thatcher's title "Sir" due to his inherited Baronetcy, or was he awarded a Knighthood for something or other? GWO


 * It's because of the Baronetcy. -- The Anome 12:15, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Page protection
This page is temporarily protected because of repeated vandalism. Theresa Knott (Hot net streak!) 15:00, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Some of the IPs resolve to: -- The Anome 15:31, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 82-42-56-109.cable.ubr06.knor.blueyonder.co.uk
 * host81-157-26-221.range81-157.btcentralplus.com
 * host81-130-182-4.in-addr.btopenworld.com
 * manc-cache-3.server.ntli.net
 * host81-137-171-179.in-addr.btopenworld.com

Does this page still need protection? I would like to add a link to the Simon Mann article I've just written. Mintguy (T)

Arms
When this is unprotected... Those are Mark Thatcher's personal arms, not "the arms of the baronetcy", whatever that could mean. Arms belong to people, not titles. Marnanel 02:39, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Considerable pressure
"Its creation was reportedly recommended to the Queen by Prime Minister John Major under considerable pressure from the recently retired Margaret Thatcher, who wanted her child to inherit a title." - - What is the evidence for this considerable pressure?

Requested move
Copied from the entry on the WP:RM page:

CASE FOR SPEEDY MOVE - this page was moved yesterday (against policy) by user "Surrey10", and the original page subsequently edited making it impossible to move back without a cut-&-paste or through the efforts of an Administrator. Jooler 23:15, 23 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~ 


 * Support move back to Mark Thatcher - we should use common names, and baronetcies are not usually used in article titles. sjorford (talk)  16:50, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Support speedy move. Susvolans ⇔ 16:53, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

I've removed a bit
"Its creation was reportedly recommended to the Queen by Prime Minister John Major under considerable pressure from the recently retired Margaret Thatcher, who wanted her child to inherit a title." It is known that Thatcher turned down a hereditary peerage, so this makes little sense on it's own. Perhaps we can source it? Rich  Farmbrough 23:55, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Who said "Thatcher turned down a hereditary peerage"? In fact, she created three hereditary peerages (the first in a while) in the 1980s in the hope that she'd be granted one on retirement. It was to no avail, as she was created a life peer. (Of course, if she had become a hereditary, she would have required a subsequent life peerage to retain her seat in the House of Lords after 1999). The thought of her son having a seat in parliament just illustrates what was wrong with the system of hereditaries in the upper house. --JRawle 14:20, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Business life
IS there anything to be said aprt from his "scrapes". I was looking for the embarrasement caused in "He is also thought to have profited from contracts to supply aviation fuel in various African countries." ... Rich  Farmbrough 00:05, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Title controversy
Chelseaboy should outline here on the discussion page any evidence there is from eg Debretts for the assertions on hereditary peerages for wives of Disraeli, Churchill and the "Dame" Norma Major.Phase1 22:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's true that Mary Anne Disraeli and Clementine Churchill were created peers. However, the latter was a life peerage, and the former was effectively one as well since it was obvious by the time of its creation that the Disraelis were not going to have children. Mackensen (talk) 22:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * My edit removed the suggestion that a title was "unconventional": in fact, as the information I added showed, there were a number of precedents.  Thanks, Mackensen, for providing the details.  My edit did not say that these were hereditary titles, only that they were honours, which all were.  I think there are two points being made in the article (1) controversy when Denis got his title because he wouldn't have got it if his wife hadn't been Prime Minister.  and (2) controversy because a hereditary title which Mark Thatcher would inherit didn't go down very well.  They are quite separate points.  My edit corrects a previous error in respect of (1) (suggesting that honours for prime ministerial spouses are anomalous, when in fact they aren't - Mary Wilson, wife of Harold, got a personal gong too I think) and makes the more relevant point to Mark (not previously present) which is (2). Edit away, people, but a straight revert is not, I think, improving the Wiki.  Cheers.  Chelseaboy 13:47, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Titles
"It was controversial from its creation by John Major, in favour of Mark's father Denis Thatcher, not least because Mark was first in line to inherit it." was labelled "citation needed", and as such was unsourced on a living person biography, so I removed it. "However" was also removed from the next sentence to keep the narrative flow. 80.229.242.179 16:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Introduction
"In 2004, an unnamed South African hostess told The Telegraph that the baronet is reportedly worth in excess of £60,000,000[citation needed]."

An unnamed South African hostess? In the name of professional appearance, I've removed that sentence. 80.229.242.179 16:15, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Good, SqueakBox 16:17, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Timeline of titles
The Hon. Mark Thatcher (7 December 1990–26 June 2003)

Where does the first date come from? That's when his mother was given the Order of Merit. HIs father's baronetcy was in 1991. Judging by the list of titles in the entry for Margaret Thatcher the date was 4 Feb 1991, not that the exact day matters that much... Flapdragon 23:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Keble College, Oxford
Since Mark Thatcher was known as "thickie" at school and failed to qualify as an accountant, it seems odd that he was offered a place at Oxford. In his day this would have meant staying on at school after "A" levels, specifically to take Oxbridge entrance exams. Why do this and then turn down an offer? This claim needs verifying. Millbanks (talk) 11:09, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I have deleted the reference. Millbanks (talk) 13:20, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Any updates?
Business or social career since 2005? Whereabouts in Spain is he living? Any word of his son, now 20? 86.144.243.136 (talk) 11:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

The Improvement tag seems no longer warranted. There seem to be adequate in line citations. --121.214.45.78 (talk) 11:49, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Oxford University
It seems that Mark did not study at Oxford University. It is not clear if he was offered a place there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.54.66 (talk) 16:53, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

People banned from entering the United States
Is he really permanently banned from entering the United States? (Heroeswithmetaphors)  talk  02:04, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Do your own research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.178.127.55 (talk) 15:53, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

So he is a nobody, right?
Isn't the article supposed to begin with what he IS? Is he a businessman? a lawyer? teacher? What has he done? What is he know for? Instead we are given a tabloid introduction about his relatives and his titles. Oddly enough he appears to actually be nothing and his only claim to fame is being a Thatcher. Otherwise, if his claim to fame is the Giunea blunder, than that is what the article should start with. Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 14:05, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * He is an ex-convict which means he has a criminal record. The description "businessman" for his profession in the first line of the article is a bit too thin and does not take into account the criminal actions T. is known for towards the public. White-washing on purpose?

Photo
I am really quite surprised that there is no photo. If anyone is willing to mentor me, I will make it my mission to add an acceptable photo (by Wikipedia's standards and rules) for every biography I possibility can. User:SeaBeeDee(talk) 07:41, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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At
I am not sure how the £60,000,000 was arrived at. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C0:7C80:8401:A89E:C6B7:9DE8:C1A6 (talk) 15:57, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It is only a fraction of the £45 billion arms contract with Saudi Arabia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C0:7C80:8401:A89E:C6B7:9DE8:C1A6 (talk) 16:00, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

"Conservative"
Why does the infobox identify his "political party" as "Conservative"? As far as I know, he's never been overtly party political, and there's nothing in the article to say he has been. It would be a major news story if he ever came out in favour of any rival party, but unless there's some positive and sourced evidence of active Conservative partisanship, I think this should be deleted. GrindtXX (talk) 23:05, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
 * It's been a week, and no-one leaping in to defend this, so I'm deleting it. GrindtXX (talk) 15:08, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Repetition
A lot of repetition in this, particularly regarding the coup attempt, his titles, marriages and residence arrangements. Can anyone take on the task of reorganising in order to fix? - Sitush (talk) 13:49, 16 March 2023 (UTC)