Talk:Marko Perković/Archive 1

untitled
This is an encyclopedia not a propaganda site against Croatian people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KroatieHR (talk • contribs) 14:54, 19 January 2006

Web site
The fanpage from Marko don't have to stand here, this because the statement on this site is not true!

I removed my fan site about MP Thompson here because the text which is standing here is not true.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by KroatieHR (talk • contribs) 17:21, 2 February 2006

Freedom of speach.....singing is about story telling ...not just catchy tunes....if a singer sings about ????? it doesnt mean he agrees with that view.........its just a song

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.111.75.195 (talk • contribs) 22:53, 6 February 2006

Just a song? thats the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard... songs are meant to express emotions and feelings. Marko's colors come out loud and clear in some of his music: he is a racist SOB

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.132.201.249 (talk • contribs) 01:07, 2 July 2007

References needed
An encyclopaedia is expected to have references to external sources. Start adding them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.233.39.17 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 1 July 2007

NPOV
"Serbian communists hate him" is not something you would expect to find in an encyclopaedia. The article needs a good clean up by an unbiased third party. All the best. Mmoneypenny 07:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

The language has changed since then. I don't find any further discussion on the NPOV tag on the talk page, so I'm going to remove it.--Gloriamarie 20:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

The repetition of the same inaccurate "Ustaše killed hundreds of thousands" information in close proximity to the individuals name creates a propaganda effect against them. In so doing the article gains a bias view point. Mention the fact once and thats enough since the president is then established. --50% Cyborg 18:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

About Za dom-Spremni
Someone wrote that that is exclusively fascist slogan,and that is often used during concert.The slogan is not in origin fascist,it was used centuries ago.And it is used as part of a song,one song,one time during concert.Song originates from the time of war for independence,and it was used as a message to Serbs that he and his friends soldiers will free their village.Please do not lie,or if you don't know the subject,restrain your self from writing.

His songs are full ..., and nostalgia for the Ustasha regime, which collaborated with the Nazis during World War II

I cut this part of sentence and it will be not returned,until some evidence is put.Find me songs in which he gives nostalgia for Nazi regime.And don't put any articles from NYT,since that article is the author's opinion.What I want is a song transcript.And I speak Croatian,so you don't need to translate. Obersoldat July 11 2007 15:30 h (GMT+1)

With all due respect, on Wikipedia, the New York Times, opinion or not, counts for more than your opinion about the subject. Wikipedia relies on reliable sources for information, of which the Times is one. The information will be reverted and please look into Wikipedia's policies before editing further. --Gloriamarie 20:23, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

See NY Times's attituded in its article about Serb chetnik leader Momčilo Đujić. Then see the comment of Washington Post. Make conclusions for yourself. Kubura 10:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Merge into Thompson?
After taking a look at the band Thompson's article, Thompson (band}, the controversies seem to be more extensively covered there and he seems to be the only permanent and most prominent member of the band. It seems that everything included in this article could be included in that one and covered better.  I propose a merge.--Gloriamarie 20:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

There is no evidence that he ever singd the Song "Jasenovac i Gradiška Stara"

Premature considering the only sources are a select cutting of newspaper articles. --50% Cyborg 18:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Article Accuracy
As I read through this article I found consistent contradictions with wiki's own Ustaše article. The primary one being that the article presents the figures of hundreds of thousands of civilians killed as fact, whereas the Ustaše article clearly states that "The exact number of victims is not known, only estimates exist.". Also I believe this article requires the use of a more varied base of sources since currently the primary (and only) sources are news articles and although acceptable by wiki policy who honestly has ever found a news article with perfectly accurate information? --50% Cyborg 18:56, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Let's just be careful not to downplay his extreme right-wing political wiews. DIREKTOR 19:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Questions to answer and commented parts
I've made a revert. As it can be seen, I've made some commented sections, in which I said: 1) Please, write here his songs, and his albums, where he speaks nostalgic about ustaše, NDH-nostalgia. All albums down are provided, so please write down the compromized songs, we need that information here. 2) If you criticize iconography or "fans" (are they provocators), criticize them. 3) If somebody mentions "slogans from WWII". Also, in Kumrovec, thousands of fans also shout well-known slogans from World War II. 4) Nederlands case. He was accused of neonazism, but no neonazi, neofascist iconography was ever seen ((swastikas, fascios etc.) or glorifying of nazi leaders (Hitler, Mussolini...) were given. Neither glorifying of neofascist parties, like Italian MSI or similar. Also, I've asked the future contributors: "please, write here where did he wore swastikas or Mussolini's fascio's, glorified Hitler, Mussolini, "Judenfrei" Nedić's Serbia, where and when did he shouted nazi salutes." 5) Regarding someone's citation of NY Times as source: which newspaper from NY wrote a glorifying epitaph to chetnik leader and nazi collaborator Momčilo Đujić (when he died in 1999)? Momčilo Đujić was responsible for deaths of thousands of Croats, FYI. Fortunately, Washington Post saw that crap and corrected that ode (in their article), that was full of falsified data and without the data that showed completely different picture about that war criminal. See this article. Kubura 08:51, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Paulcicero, you haven't gave the explanations for your revert from 26 Oct, 13:54. I've given mine explanation above. Also, for those who change the data of his birthplace, I've given the "country situation" now and then. Please, don't remove the line (born in Čavoglave, Croatia). If somebody has something against the fact that Čavoglave are in Croatia, that's his/hers problem. Wikipedia is not a place for curing somebody's frustrations because of unfullfilled military conquest of Croatia. Kubura 11:57, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Marriage and the Church. Roman Catholic Church never anulls the marriage - attitude is always:" God put husband and wife, man and woman together, and no human can dissolve that". Church can only prove (through a rigorous procedure) that the marriage never was (if the union was made under pressure or some other reason, that wasn't pure love). Kubura 12:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Kubura you forget that the Ustase were fascist too. Jasenovac and Stara Gradiška That's the house of Maks' butchers. There was a slaughterhouse in Čapljina Neretva carried away many Serbs. Hey, Neretva, flow downhill, Carry Serbs into the blue Adriatic. Through Imotski trucks rush Driving black uniforms of Jure Francetić. I am Ustasha and so was my father, Father left craft to his son. Who could imagine last year That Partisans would celebrate Christmas. Who said, his father fuck him That Black Legion is not coming back. Jasenovac and Stara Gradiška That's the house of Maks' butchers. Shining star above Metković Send our greetings to Ante Pavelić. ?? Paulcicero 21:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Ustase movement wasn't the fascist movement, but an extremist totalitarist revanchist reactionary movement, that brutally treated their opponents. Of course, that movement came to power in Croatia with the help of nazi Germany and fascist Italy, not by elections. Unlike Serb-ruled Kingdom of Yugoslavia, that signed the joining to the Axis (Serbian politicians, regularly elected, signed that). I'd like to see a reference, where Ustaše officially adopted fascist ideology (literally, where it says that they take fascism as their official ideology?). Second, on which album is "Jasenovac and Gradiška Stara"? In fact, that song wasn't written by him at all. It was written by an other author, that was killed in a car crash near Udbina, 09 Dec 2000. On the other hand, go deal with Serb singers that sang songs like "...if there were no Serb traitors, whole Croatia'd be a refugee" and odes to Serb chetnik leaders, as well as about the rebel Serb radio-stations that regularly played such songs (major part of the programme) in their programme. You can also add few notes about e.g. Radio-Priština in Serb language, that regularly played songs (even before Croatia declared independence) that incited anti-Croat feelings and Serbian expansionism and irredentism at the expense of Croatia. Kubura 10:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Unexplained removal
Why did you do this ? 3,000 bytes of text removed just like that. I've restored the version previous to that. Kubura 11:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've done a quick pass through the text; it still does need balancing but, like I said in the edit summary, the following is complete bollocks:
 * "The song was composed at the time of hardest part of the Serbian aggression on Croatia (when the 'tide' was on the Serb side) as a memory to glorious successful defense in battle of the village Čavoglave, against much better equipped and armed enemy, Serb-led JNA and rebel Croatian Serb paramilitary forces; he himself was engaged in that battle, and the song appeared there, on the battlefield. That slogan, that was also used by ustaše, Croat totalitarian political movement from WWII (that came to power by being posed by Axis forces). In this context, here's important to note that that regime (besides not less important inhumanities) behaved as heavily revancheist towards the Serbs, especially brutally treating Serb renegades that terrorized the civil population (Croats, Bosniaks, but also the opposing Serbs). Revoking of that slogan should be seen in that light. However, its Serb enemies (mostly Serb extremists, expansionist, chetniks, greaterserbianists), could never forgive him his persistent Croat hardline patriotism and persistent reminding on the values of Homeland War, religious feelings, hardly achieved freedom and independence, persistent compassion for Croatian war veterans because of their tragic destinies (thousands of suicides), and opposed to the stream in Croatia and world that forgots or hides the crimes of Croatian enemies, or even tries to incriminate the Croatian combat for freedom and survival. His attitude could be compared with the one of John Wayne, that also served the army in the war, and has never forgotten nor forgiven to persons that stood together with the enemies of his country. When Thompson's enemies couldn't beat him in the battlefield, they've turned to the media and propaganda war against him."
 * It violates at least 20 Wikipedia policies -- you name it -- and is an insult to common sense. Duja ► 16:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed Kubura, at a glance one can easily see that it is, for one thing, very unprofessionally written. DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 16:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

No, children. If you have comments on the style, than fix it. I definitely agree that the text needs additional editing, however, deletion is here as same type of behaviour as blanking. Blanking is Regarding the "source" you've quoted, starts with this title Croatian hate music group banned in Netherlands. Hate towards whome? I want to see the lyrics on Thompson's albums that are "hate speech". As I've read the text in that source, I've seen only these lines: "...was accused of giving the Hitler-salute". Was accused by whome? Which salute? Are there any videos? "...and the group was attacked for its sympathy with Nazi ideas" Which Nazi ideas? Glorifying of holokaust? Than this line: "Perkovic is certainly no wallflower having fought as an irregular soldier on the side of Croatia in the Yugoslav civil war in 1991- 1992" What civil war? Croatia hasn't fought for the rule in Yugoslavia, but to defend its independence. War that ended in 1992? Irregular soldier? Where did the journalist got that information? From Greaterserbianists' and Serbian Chetnik anti-Croat sites (that even today wouldn't recognize Croatia as country)? Or from ruling party in Serbia, that even today openly propagates Greater Serbia, at the expense of Croatia (Marko's birthplace in Croatia is also supposed to be "Greater Serbia", according to their wishes). If that was a Wikipedia article, it would have POV and WP:BOLLOCKS tags for this sentence. If extremists like Thompson's music, that doesn't make him as extremist. Musician cannot ban to anyone to listen to his music. However, whenever Thompson messes up, than give something more. I haven't removed any line that dealt with his stupid action before. Accusation for fascism and nazism is a  too serious  thing. You cannot point to someone and blame him just like that. We need more proves for such accusations. This is not childish "who broke the glass" or "who spilled the milk". Kubura 10:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

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