Talk:Marks & Spencer/Archive 1

Sunday trading
The article suggests that Marks and Spencer have never opened on a Sunday until very recently, but in Scotland they've been doing so for as long as I can remember. --DWeir 23:36, 15 December 2002 (UTC)

The Baker St. offices
I can't remember if this is correct, or not, but am I right in thinking that the Baker St. offices are on the site of where Sherlock Holmes address of 221b Baker Street would be if it actually existed and that at one time M&S had an office in the building dedicated to answering letters addressed to Holmes? If this was so, is it still the case or have they moved these operations to the 221b Baker Street museum (which is actually located a bit further up the road). Mintguy 23:46 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)

I think it's the Abbey National, not M&S -- Tarquin
 * Ahh... yes of course, much obliged. My searches on Google form Holmes and M&S were coming up blank. Mintguy
 * BTW, Abbey National is now Abbey. Lee M 05:18, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Page Name
What is the point of the move to Marks & Spencer (plc)? Mintguy (T) 11:19, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC) Surely we should have the page at Marks & Spencer there is no ambiguity, and this is what we see on the front of every store. Mintguy (T) 11:19, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Could somebody fix the sentence The company's share price fell by more than two thirds, and its profits fell from more than a billion pounds in 199 and XXXX to £1.5 million in the year ended 31 March 2001.? --JBellis 12:39, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Trades union rights
Is it worth mentioning the recent, ongoing campaign by USDAW to get recognition from Marks and Spencer? --Chryma 19:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The average shift lasts from between 6 to 10 hours, depending on the job and staff numbers.--86.25.12.158 (talk) 09:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Enough now.
I think we get the point. As has been said before, this is not a forum. Please discuss the article, which only has a short section on "Support for Israel" and gives two sources for anti-M&S behavior (neither of which are particularly attractive to a reasonable person, and I don't regard as WP:RS: web logs etc are not RS). Since the only other citation is for Weidenstock's book, and since the section is misnamed, I suggest we cut the entire section. SimonTrew (talk) 18:06, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, let's cut the entire 'Support for Israel' section - it's being misused, is misleading, and does not cite neutral sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Our Man In Bananas (talk • contribs) 18:36, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

POV?
"M&S deliver an excellent service to all its customers." Hmmm...?--Codenamecuckoo 20:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed it; it's not acceptable in that form.
 * Now, if it was said that a reputable authority/survey had shown that many people considered M&S's service excellent, *and* this was referenced, it would be acceptable.
 * (Note that a rewrite like "Some consider M&S's service to be excellent" alone would not be acceptable because it's a weasel-type phrase.) Fourohfour 12:40, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

"Your M&S"
Regarding the minor dispute over whether Marks & Spencer are now "called" "Your M&S", or whether this is a branding exercise. TR Wolf claims that "I work for M&S, and validate this fact.'" I've no idea what he actually does at M&S (shelf filler or head of marketing), so can't tell if he's in a position to reliably confirm/deny corporate policy or not.

I was going to ask if this constituted original research- but only in a technical sense. Then I remembered *why* original research is frowned upon; it's hard to reliably gauge the validity or reliability of author, claim and source- the exact problem above. That's why we want referenced third-party sources!

I'm not saying that TR Wolf is wrong nor untrustworthy. On the contrary, as we now know he works for M&S it's far more likely that he's right- but I'm afraid "I work for M&S, and validate this fact'" still isn't a third-party reference.


 * Oh I work in Menswear, I only said that I could verify that stores call themselves "Your M&S" because we do, on the phone too, and when we call other stores they answer the same way, all tannoy announcements refer to the stores as "Your M&S", I mean Im obviously not cookiemonster, who seems to be Stuart Rose himself!! ... speaking of which, why is there no M&S logo on the article now? TR_Wolf

Now that I'm on the subject, this article really needs references, full stop.

Fourohfour 13:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * In reply to this comment, as a different employee of M&S (I'm currently a trainee commercial manager three months into the scheme; the information comes from a presentation given to us at Head Office, Alexandra House, in September.), there is a debate about whether to officially rebrand all stores (ie front of shop signs) as 'M&S' or leave it as 'Marks and Spencers'. It's my understanding that the company is currently 'Marks and Spencers', but uses the 'Your M&S / M&S' logo partly as a slogan and partly as an unofficial brand name. 'M&S' is on some signs for redeveloped stores (e.g. Edgware Road), but the argument about whether to change all shops goes on. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.35.144.188 (talk • contribs).


 * Does the Edgware Road store sign only have the new logo on it, i.e. it doesn't say "Marks and Spencer" at all? I ask because the Newcastle store (Northumberland Street) recently got a new sign which includes both the "old" and "new" logos. AdorableRuffian 20:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)3


 * The Dublin Liffey Valley Shopping Centre store, which was refitted recently, has had only "M&S" on its exterior logos since the start of July - the "Your M&S" logo without the "Your" bit. Yet the Dublin Mary Street store was only refitted three months previous has "Marks and Spencer" on its exterior logos, these having replaced the 1990s small caps version (which itself only relatively recently replaced an even earlier logo). The Grafton Street store still has the 1990s logo on it. --Rdd 21:53, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I think that "Your M&S" is just a trading name, which does not have to be registered with Companies House. If you look closely at the recent TV campaign, including the insurance ad, there is a disclaimer on the bottom of the screen along the lines of "Marks & Spencer Financial Services trading as Your M&S" - grateful if anyone can confirm the wording. Dmccormac 19:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Newcastle Market Stall
Does anyone know whether Marks and Spencers still operate a stall on Grainger Market in Newcastle? I know it still operated 3 or 4 years ago, but is it still there? If so then it must be worth a mention, as it is one of the early stores from when the company started out.Drc79 22:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, the Grainger Market shop is still there as of 26th March 2007 (and going great guns as far as I could see). The store still has its original Penny Bazaar sign, and interestingly all of the modern in-store signage follows the "Penny Bazaar" theme as well (there isn't a modern "Your M&S" logo to be seen!)


 * I have no idea if the Newcastle operation is unique, but it deserves a mention in the article without a doubt. Ideally I would like to take a photograph and add it to the article, but I suspect the positioning of the stall and the lighting would make this difficult. 217.34.39.123 11:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Early Days Entry
Whats going on here? This is terribly written, with poor grammar and repetitions of information, as well as inconsistancies in the text! Was Mr Marks Belarusian? Was He Russian? This needs a nice rewrite. Apologies to the people who have written this, it needs love... --GeologyTom 17:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Credit Cards
--Bill Tegner 23:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)My memory is that M&S brought in a store card because customers objected to their cash or cheque only policy. But they held out for far longer (in the UK) against credit cards, giving the impression of "it's our policy not to accept them" (never mind the customer). Can anyone remember when they started accepting them? I think that it was around 1999. Bill Tegner 23:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know but I can ask some of the people who have been at the store for agggges! Jackacon 21:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Financial Services
I couldn't find a reference to "Marks and Spencer Financial Services". Does this still exist?Bill Tegner 23:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC) --Bill Tegner 23:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I think M&SFS was bought outright by HSBC, back when Marks were nearly going under. All the cash machines instore are owned by them at any rate Jackacon 22:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm on to it. .--86.29.141.202 (talk) 15:51, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Penny Bazaar in Newcastle
I have added a mention of this to the article. Incidentally, the Penny Bazaar is not listed on the M&S website, possibly because it now operates as a "satellite" of the full-sized Newcastle store. It's a well-kept secret. 217.34.39.123 12:33, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. It's good to know that it didn't get closed as part of the cutbacks when M&S was going through hard times.Drc79 18:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

New logo - wrong letter spacing?
I see the article now shows the brand new Marks & Spencer logo, which is only just starting to appear on new product packaging. However, the letter spacing on this appears to be wrong when compared to the real logo. (The letters are much closer together in reality.) 217.155.20.163 16:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Edit: oh, and it's the wrong font, too! The real font is similar to this but not identical (the "R" looks different). Note that it isn't the same font as is used in the "Your M&S" logo. 217.155.20.163 16:45, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the only font M & S now used was Helvetica Neue. All the signage in my local store is presented in Helvetica Neue Light, and I thought the M & S was simply UltraLight, but everyone here seems to be saying it's not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.167.10.12 (talk) 21:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

This is in fact not the new Marks & Spencer logo. i work for the companies marketing team, and we will continue to use the existing Marks & Spencer stacked logo. we have decided that a new updated logo is not needed, as we now use the Your M&S insignia on all external and internal advertising. The Your M&S logo will now be associated to the retail division of the group, whilst the existing Marks & Spencer logo will be used on all coporate documentation only. So i would suggest that this logo is removed and the correct stacked Marks & Spencer logo returned. (in accordance with our copyright policy of course)


 * So what's the new logo (on product packaging) all about, then? I'm talking about the small "Marks & Spencer" logo that appears on the recently redesigned packaging for things like pre-packed cheese. It's a stacked logo as before, but it's now in a sort of Arial-ish font.


 * It seems at the moment they're using three different logos - one for corporate use, store fronts, and existing product packaging; a different one for redesigned product packaging; and yet another one for advertising and promotion (the "Your M&S" one). Is this arrangement likely to continue? 217.155.20.163 13:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * You re correct we are indeed using a simple stacked logo on some packaging but this is only used on certain packaging and is only used as part of our plan A £100 million eco plan. it is somehow more envirionmentally friendly to produce certain packaging using this logo as opposed to any of the coporate ones. this stacked logo has no coporate bearing. look out next week for te second phase of awareness advertising for plan A including a 90 second television advert.

As I see it there is one official "stacked" logo which is presented in a similar font to "Helvetica Neue Light" but with an obviously different letter "R". This logo is used on the new food packaging, on the back of gift cards and on some other internal docs. It's also used in non-stacked form on the front of some remodelled stores. The old stacked Optima logo looks like it's disappearing quickly from food packs and from store fronts too as they get remodelled. They are either replaced with the full Marks & Spencer frontage or simply 'M&S'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.96.197.152 (talk) 05:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Removed comment - Israelis and Palestinians
The following comment by me was removed some time ago by User:Purgatory Fubar with an explanation along the lines of "RM comment unrelated to article - talk pages are not forums". This user's reasoning was entirely incorrect, as this was in fact a request for information sources which I believe may be useful in the creation or editing of the article - it was not simply "idle talk" as it were, along the lines of "M&S is crap" or whatever.

If there is a significant organised campaign against Marks and Spencer for whatever reason, which I took to be the case from my brief experience in March, then I believe that is a notable fact that should be added to the article.

I therefore repeat the comment below, and kindly ask that this user not delete such comments in future. Thank you. 217.155.20.163 14:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I passed by the Newcastle branch of M&S earlier today. There was a bunch of protesters outside, shouting slogans like "Boycott Marks and Spencer" and "End Israeli Apartheid", along with various things about Palestinians.


 * Does anyone know what this is about? Is M&S connected in some way to the Israeli government, or has it done things which Palestinians believe to be bad? I found it curious for two reasons: (a) M&S has no stores in Israel; (b) M&S has several stores in countries that are not exactly friendly towards Israel. 217.155.20.163 16:33, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Yes apparently all the money M&S collects on Sundays, it sends to Israel, and take a guess what they use that money for there... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.3.173.131 (talk) 20:09, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

As a mater of interest, I peeped at some of the labels in the Oxford store and found out some source nations- Potatoes are British, Irish and Israeli; Woman's shoes are Vietnamese, Tunisian, Moroccan, Spanish, Italian and Chinese; the butter squashes are Portuguese; and the shower curtains are Chinese! I see no Islamophobia, Sinophobia or Zionism!--86.29.134.191 (talk) 10:32, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:M&S logo.png
Image:M&S logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:12, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Adverts
It's apparent M&S spends relatively little on marketing their company. Perhaps someone could touch on this.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.156.68.246 (talk) 13:49, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * They run an advert for their female clothes range about 4 months back (the one at the fairground) and a food ad (the one with Del Boy/David Jason as the voice over)!--86.25.12.158 (talk) 09:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm setteling it in a re-write.--86.29.141.202 (talk) 15:52, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

M&S Ireland
I've tried to make some improvements to this section - including removal of some of the blatant speculation (how can M&S secure a deal with local authorities over motorway service areas when it is the NRA which is awarding the contracts, and no contracts have yet been awarded). M&S is indeed expanding in Ireland, but I can find nowhere in the Annual Report for a 40 store figure so until it can be cited...

I wonder whether or not an Ireland section should be part of international. On the one hand, the Republic of Ireland is not part of the UK and M&S reports the ROI results as part of its international activities (notwithstanding Marks and Spencer (Ireland) Limited being a wholly owned subsidary of Marks and Spencer plc). On the other hand, M&S ROI operations seem to be so tightly integrated with the UK operations that they run the same advertising campaigns and when Foot and Mouth hit the UK, the ROI stores ran out of stock in many areas of the food sections. Comments? --Rdd 20:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure there were M&S shops in Ireland before 1979. Also their goods were branded St Bernard rather than St Michael. Millbanks (talk) 09:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

No, you're confusing M&S with the rather similar (but far bigger in Ireland) Dunnes Stores. The stores are very similar (food+textiles) with the old M&S furnishings and old Dunnes Stores furnishings being similar, both also used to have similar small caps logos. The major difference being (1) Dunnes is far less upmarket than M&S, (2) their food strategies, Dunnes (as it is now in the process of rebranding as) carries a full selection of food including other brands in its supermarkets, wheras M&S only sells M&S/St Michael products. "St Bernard" (although the official explaination is different) is rather likely to come from Dunnes' founder, Ben Dunne, Senior. --86.42.211.70 (talk) 19:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Clean-up Tag
I have added a cleanup tag to this article. Please see Wikipedia:Manual of Style for further guidance.

--Cookiemonster2006 23:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Originaly Formed In Manchester
Marks and Spencer was founded in Manchester when Michael Marks joined up with Thomas Spencer in 1894 and opened the first Marks and spencer store at number 20, Cheetham Hill Road.

This is recorded in the actual Marks and Spencer company's annals, you may read it on their own website. The full story of the company, and it's founders, is written on many websites and published in print.

Wigan is not mentioned in the company history. Neither is Hartlepool. 92.239.71.235 (talk) 23:39, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Whilst the first Marks & Spencer building may have been in Manchester, the business (which was bought into by Thomas Spencer for £300) first began in Leeds. The M&S archive is now situated in the University of Leeds for this reason. LauraJaneButcher (talk) 17:35, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

St Michael
Has anyone any idea when and why this label disappeared? Millbanks (talk) 09:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I think I read somewhere that Stuart Rose decided it was to "old fashioned", which is why they've switched to the "Your M&S", try and get down with the kids, or something to that effect! Jackacon (talk) 16:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

It was discontinued in around 2000 when they rebranded all the stores with the new Optima logo. It was decided, understandably, that people couldn't work out whether the brand was Marks & Spencer or St Michael. I wouldn't be surprised if they re-introduce it at some point though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Box of delights (talk • contribs) 10:49, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

M&S mission statement
Does anyone know the mission statement of Marks and Spencer in Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne and Wear?

No, nor do I know the 'gneral mission statement' ether.--86.29.133.71 (talk) 03:38, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

St Margaret
"By 1950, all goods were sold under the St Michael label." I can recall as a child in the late 1950s or early 1960s ny mother buying me M&S underwear that bore a "St Margaret" label. I have an idea that they used St Margaret for their children's range for a while, whilst usingg St Michael for their adult range. JH (talk page) 20:13, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

My parents recall the St Margaret label too, but I've no idea what it was used for. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.96.197.152 (talk) 05:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Length of Article
The article does seem slightly long and badly laid out. Also I am going to slightly rearrange the Plan A and environmental policy bit as they are essentially the same thing. Also on the Jewish thing, M&S does have a few items from Israel but I wouldn't say that many, but I only work in foods periodically, but then with this Plan A malarkey Marks wants to source more things locally! Also name wise, as I have been told at works, the company is called Marks and Spencer, but we would refer to it as your M&S, like answering the phone would be; "Good Morning Your M&S La-La Land, Archibald speaking, how may I help you", hope that clears a few things up. Benny45boy (talk) 20:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I think there spuds, broccoli and potatoes are Israeli and Kenyan.--86.25.15.151 (talk) 17:47, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

M&S, Marks and Spencer, Marks & Spencer
I've tidied to make all references, except those in links etc, say M&S (not Marks and Spencer or Marks & Spencer), for consistency. You may not like my choice, I hope you'd agree at least to have it consistent is better: if you prefer another form, obviously a simple find-and-replace can now change the lot in one go. Thanks. SimonTrew (talk) 21:48, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Products section
The products section here is getting ridiculously long and most of it is really not important to have the detail given. How about a summary of the basic ranges of products rather than long list of individual products? Keith D (talk) 12:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * ... or split into a separate article. Or both. SimonTrew (talk) 16:00, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

It has been split off.--86.29.134.16 (talk) 02:54, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Relaunced lines
Perfect was relaunced in the Janary of 2010 as a seasonal sub-brand of Portfolio.--86.29.134.16 (talk) 02:54, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced analysis
The material reverted back in here reads very much like personal analysis. The correct response to such material is to remove it, not to leave it hanging around with a fact tag for eternity. If sources which contain such analysis aren't forthcoming the material should be removed again. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 08:35, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Accuracy query
I have moved this query from the article. Keith D (talk) 12:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

The first M&S store in central Asia was built in Kabul, Afghanistan in the 1960s. The store was later shut down.


 * Has this been checked with Marka & Spencer? Wikipedia has assumed content of a reference is accurate.  I was in Kabul in 1972 and I remember a department store named "Marks & Sparks".  Definitely not a genuine branch of Marks and Spencer. Howard dare (talk) 03:21, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Possible POV/COI editing
here - the passage seems somewhat POV; the removal is the first edit by an ISP. There was one ref, to the USDAW (union) website. Johnbod (talk) 23:23, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Business Involvement Group
This section is both unfounded and unfair on the company and seems to be based on someone's own personal experience. With no references or evidence to back it up I believe the whole of this section should be removed 90.208.73.207 (talk) 14:40, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Marks & Spencer
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Marks & Spencer's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ReferenceC": From List of Marks & Spencer brands:  From Singapore: http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/papers/people/c2000adr-literacy.pdf 

Reference named "ReferenceB": From Philippines: Joaquin, Nick. A Question of Heroes. From Estonia: Cuisine of Estonia, Wikipedia From Singapore: List of countries and dependencies by population density From List of Marks & Spencer brands:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 08:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello, I am a sentient editor. Unfortunately I don't know where the original person got the references from. All I can do is put reference unknown and hope the person who wrote it originally changes it. 92.7.202.13 (talk) 15:14, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * You ought to have used the template.  TYelliot  &#124;  Talk  &#124;  Contribs  15:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Jewish?
''Controversy

The founders of Marks and Spencer were Jewish, and the company long retained a Jewish identity to some degree. It has been caught up in one of two disputes related to Israel, but this has gone largely unnoticed by the British public.''


 * Intriguing. Specifics? Pcb21| Pete 12:56, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

From is birth M&S has been linked inextricably to Zionism. In fact in a book on M&S, Lord Marcus Sieff - long time Chairman of M&S - wrote that one of the fundamental objectives of M&S is to aid the economic development of Israel (Management: The Marks & Spencer Way, Weidenfield & Nicolson, 1990).

M&S supports Israel with approximately $233 million in trade every year (Jerusalem Report, 5 June 2000).

The JTA reported that "The Israeli ambassador to England recently honored Marks & Spencer for the company's continued support of Israel." (JTA, 13 December 2000).

In 1998 Sir Richard Greenbury Marks & Spencer, received the Jubilee Award by the Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. This is the highest tribute ever awarded by the "State of Israel" in recognition of those individuals and organizations, that through their investments and trade relationships, have done the most to strengthen the Israeli economy. From http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-marks-and-spencer.html

The myth of 'one of the fundamental objectives of M&S is to aid the economic development of Israel' is based on a google 'quote' that appears on numerous pro-boycott sites. It was originally inserted into the 'Israel' section, clearly taken from one such site, not the primary source. The primary source (which I possess) reads:

"Another example of the demand for quality and value has been the development over the past twelve years of the firm Delta, which was established in Carmiel, in northern Galilee in Israel, thirteen years ago by a remarkable industrial leader, Dov Lautman. The plant initially manufactured men’s briefs, and Mr Lautman wished to export to Marks & Spencer. Although it has been Marks & Spencer's policy to encourage economic development in Israel, it was on the basis that a product of similar value and quality could not be found in the United Kingdom", Sieff, Marcus (1990). Management the Marks & Spencer Way, Glasgow: Weidenfeld and Nicholson, 1990, p. 115.

While this suggests a positive Marks and Spencer connection with Israel, to suggest that 'aiding (rather than merely 'encouraging') Israeli etc' is/was one of its "fundamental objectives" is a heavily teleological interpretation of the quotation (to be generous), implying aiding Israel was one of M&S's founding/fundmental principles. The actual quotation, minus such 'interpretations', I have inserted along with other details about Lautman's business from the book.

Further, it does raise the question to what extent Anglo-Jewish business persons are to be allowed to engage in trade with Israel before incurring the ire of anti-Israel activists; or indeed Anglo-Jews to have any positive relations with Israel at all. It does set a rather ugly precedent.Zkharya (talk) 11:00, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Zionism
Is it just me, or does the phrase "supporters of the Palestinian people in their struggle against Zionism" seem a bit too POV? - Lee M 18:42, 29 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * Not sure how that is POV (what else might people think they are struggling against?) but I think it reads better now anyway. Thank you for your edit.  GrahamN 01:59, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)


 * The term "Zionism" is potentially inflammatory.

'Yid' is racist and Islamophobia is unacceptable to.--86.25.1.16 (talk) 09:29, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Zionism is regarded by some as Islamophobic and is thus inflammatory.--86.25.12.158 (talk) 09:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

No, they are not Zionists or Islamophobic!
They are not Islamophobic, they buy some of there shoes from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia (as well as the UK, Italy, Portugal, Macao, China, Hong Kong and Vietnam). --86.25.5.147 (talk) 09:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

And Ireland...--86.25.1.16 (talk) 09:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I found Indian shoes and Chinese trainers on sale in the menswear department.--86.29.129.34 (talk) 09:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I think there spuds, broccoli and potatoes are Israeli and Kenyan.--86.25.15.151 (talk) 17:47, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Some of the broccoli, plums, blueberries, potatoes and kitchen towel are British.--86.29.129.34 (talk) 09:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The anti-bacterial hand gel is British.--86.29.129.34 (talk) 09:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The organic dates are Israeli and the organic bananas are from Saint Lucia.--86.29.129.34 (talk) 09:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The chemical stick used to clean neck ties is Swedish and the ties them selves are British and Dutch.--86.29.129.34 (talk) 09:21, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The 'Percy Pig' sweets are German!--86.29.129.34 (talk) 09:21, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

There Chocolates and biscuits are British, Belgian, Dutch and Swiss, whist there Mangos are Senegalese, British and Kenyan. --86.29.140.161 (talk) 16:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Bulgarian underwear, Portuguese vases and Chinese caps to.--Doźlik (talk) 01:28, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I can add Moroccan Leeks and onions to the list of Islaic goods.Wipsenade (talk) 10:33, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Islamic cloth
There socks are from the UAE and the towels are Turkish, both which are Muslim lands. It's not a Zionist club! Debate closed!--Doźlik (talk) 01:28, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

And Egyptian children's cloaths.--86.29.135.191 (talk) 18:14, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I found a Pakistanie towels set to.213.81.121.200 (talk) 15:34, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

What is "half bear half Jewish"?
Just as the subject says --- what indeed DOES this mean? Is this some sort of joke? Potentially anti-Semitic?

And incidentally, is this true about selling only Arabic-made goods? That, too, sounds a little weird. --86.25.1.16 (talk) 09:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

They sell shoes made in Arab North Africa.--86.29.140.161 (talk) 16:15, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Charity Work
I have added thier charity work now.--82.11.96.149 (talk) 19:21, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Editing Main Info
In the top section (for which I can't seem to find an edit button!) it states that there are over 875 stores, 600 in the Uk and 295,000 worldwide - Can someone please edit this so that it says 275 rather than 275 thousand! Thanks!

84.93.149.125 (talk) 09:18, 3 December 2010 (UTC) Sarah, 3/Dec/10
 * Thanks it was some vandalism from 14 November, that I have now reverted. There is no edit button for the lead section, unless you have an account and select the option to have one. Keith D (talk) 11:26, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Good man!Wipsenade (talk) 10:36, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Sources for "Support for Israel" section - possible urban myths
There are two sources for M&S support of Israel - a 21 September 1941 edition of the Jewish Chronicle and statements in a memoir by Marcus Sieff, M&S's former chairman. Query if these are accurate sources or urban myths. The Jewish Chronicle has always been published on a Friday or earlier in the week; the 21 September 1941 was a Sunday. The dates Sieff served as Chairman are given incorrectly (should be 1972-1982), and the name of the book is slightly wrong (the Weidenfeld & Nicolson edition was "On Management: the Marks & Spencer Way". So it looks like whoever added these sources did not have the primary sources to hand, or a reliable secondary source, but was instead relying upon one of the websites that carry these claims, none of which meet usual standards for sourcing. Absent more reliable sourcing, these statements should be removed. LeContexte (talk) 10:52, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * One month on, I going to remove these statements.LeContexte (talk) 20:40, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Whether M&S supports Israel or not, there is considerable material on the issue for it to be relevant as a quick google test reveals. Please do not censor or delete something simply because you don't like it.-123.231.95.111 (talk) 07:38, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Let's sart Googleing then!Wipsenade (talk) 10:39, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

BIG - Vandalism
I've removed the derogatory slagging match that's collected in this section reverting back to only referenced material. Please remember that this is not the place for workplace warfare. Trinkella (talk) 23:07, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Why is the s B.I.G. Business Involvement Group so little?
I think we need a proper debate on this subject and to expand the section further.17:10, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Whilst the BIG representatives are there to represent the views of their colleagues, they can only be nominated for selection with the active support of their line manager. Such an approach probably helps management ensure that no undesirable because they are considered by management to be trouble-makers, too argumentative, too work-shy or too keen to protect the working conditions of their colleagues who are unable to become representatives. This approach would apparently make the BIG mini-union a toothless and ineffective instrument of staff representation for the employees of M&S.

Theoretically it is a body meant represent the employees and to be consulted on regarding changes to employment terms and conditions, in practice they are ineffective. Some Business Involvement Group representatives have been directly blamed for its involvement in the erosion of individual terms and conditions of employment which were once the envy of other retail workers. On some occasions, BIG has been referred to as the instrument of delivering management decisions and a weak voiceless representative of the employees.] For instance, M&S policy is now that if an employee has 8 shifts off over 26 weeks, regardless of the genuineness of the cause, they will receive a Written Warning. If already on warning for absence they will progress through Final Written Warning and dismissal if they have 6 shifts off within 26 weeks. An instance of this is where an employee, who was absent through a serious head injury, being placed in a Written Warning and therefore missed the £350 bonus announced to staff on 8th March 2009 and will also not be eligible for the 2010 pay rise until the 2011 pay review.

The Big Group works well when genuine workers' representives are voted in by the employees. It means they are represented by the people they want to be represented by. There have been many changes brought out concerning store ergonomics and the B.I.G Group has a Big voice.

Mr Q. V. and Mrs D.L. helped thwart a sexist groper in Andover, Mr S.C. failed to get over time reduced in Basingstoke and it was a BIG idea to have the lighting dimmed in the cafés to avoid eye strain during long shifts.
 * : - ) .213.81.121.200 (talk) 17:10, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

i was to know what happen to thomas spencer because we see simmon marks became the 2nd owners we are is the partner ship of thomas spencer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.49.12.233 (talk) 11:58, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Beginnings
The early history does not accord with what is shown on the M&S website.

Marks started on his own in 1884, and Spencer joined him in 1894.

46.226.190.53 (talk) 12:04, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

New logo
The M&S logo now appears to have changed. Could someone upload a vector version of it please? Cloudbound (talk) 17:46, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Controversies:Dismissal of Sparks' proposer for racism
Shouldn't the page be updated to include the fact that Marks & Spencer has fired the head of its new loyalty card scheme, reportedly over the use of racist language.

Suzanna Broer, who was director of customer insight and loyalty, was dismissed in November for allegedly using racist language at work, according to the Sunday Times (paywall).:

Snorben (talk) 07:53, 3 March 2016 (UTC)snorben

Charity work
Section needs fleshing out. To read it one would think M and S did nothing but Breast Cancer work. In fact, it also supports Prostate Cancer fundraising by selling badges. Its stores' charity committees pick their own local charities to support in addition to the "official "one. Snorben (talk) 08:00, 3 March 2016 (UTC)snorben

High Profile Media Campaign claim not sourced
author posits pov of Marks' "resurgence" due to advertising but gives no evidence. This is pov and unsubstantiated by source. Delete please. Snorben (talk) 08:07, 3 March 2016 (UTC)snorben3/3/16

Photo of flagship store
Why is there no photo of the flagship Oxford St store in the article? Perhaps it could go in or just under the infobox? There is one on Commons that would be perfect. A P Monblat (talk) 03:01, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Because we already have a Westfield London picture so there's no need to add another and plus the quality of the Oxford one's crap. – Davey 2010 Talk 03:20, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

International
Out of 3 full paragraphs, about 1.5 are on the Netherlands. This is too much considering the relative share of the M&S network in this country. Also, quite a bit of the information offered is repetitive. gidonb (talk) 15:10, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

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International stores
M&S closed many international stores this year (eg. all in Poland), so the numbers in the article are no longer very current. 213.135.59.12 (talk) 14:12, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

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Additional UK store closures announced
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-44197128 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.23.189.82 (talk) 02:44, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

It has been added.--92.0.216.55 (talk) 19:13, 23 May 2018 (UTC)