Talk:Marmalade

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Invention
I've found info on the web that supports the view that Janet Keiller first invented Dundee Marmalade in 1700, but that it wasn't for a few generations later that James Keiller, and his mother built the first marmalade factory, in [1797]]. So, perhaps, the comment about the story being fable should be removed. dduck

http://novascotia.cbc.ca/radio/infomorn/cookbook/marmalade.html

This is just another repetition of the fable. I had a link which showed how this was untrue. i'll have to find it again. Mintguy 14:37, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * Here - http://www.scotlandmag.com/issue/1/scottish_innovators/36 Mintguy 14:41, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * I've tracked down James Keiller, 1777 - 1839. He had parents John and Janet (Matheson). He married Barbara Robertson on 25 Mar 1805. According to the family tree there was no Janet or James around 1700, so the Canadian link is wrong, and the page is pretty much okay as it stands. - dduck


 * http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/default.asp
 * http://patstedman.bravepages.com/marmalade/pafg05.htm

Boar carcass
Does somebody have a source that states the the British call this food "Boar carcass" ?

It sounds a lot like someone tried to translate spareribs without knowing the term. --Verres 20:14, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Yuck, course we don't!

That's quite easily the silliest thing I've read all day, well done! --JamesTheNumberless 17:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I gathered all the (reliable) information I could find about the etymology of "marmalade" (from Portuguese and Latin). Do you think the comment "citation needded" is still necessary?
 * In what languages does "marmalade" refer to preserves not made from oranges? And who has cited this difference in use of the word as an example of the "irreconcilability" of different world-views?--Gheuf 22:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
 * In Canada, the Shirriff brand of Smucker Foods has a marmalade product in pineapple flavor. Or at least, that's what they claim it is, right on the label. Ingredients include sugar/glucose-fructose, pineapples (ascorbic acid), concentrated pineapple juice, citric acid, pectin. This product actually does appear to have small chunks of pineapple mixed in. There is a toll-free telephone information number, but I haven't prepared my questions for etymological grilling yet... too busy eating. 139.103.45.107 (talk) 13:17, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Small jar of marmalade
A coloquial term originating from Welsh settlers in France in the early 21st century, often used to describe a person from Northern England who has a tendency to engage in menial, pointless tasks in an effort to avoid a general level of social interaction with his peers and to "drip feed negativity" in to proceedings.

The small jar of marmalader will often be found attemting to engage his peers in low-level, ineffective banter in an effort to justify his anti-social behaviour. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.254.147.52 (talk) 14:26, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

Other Marmalades
I've eaten chilli marmalade before. I think "marmalade" refers to the preparation process, not necessarily the end product. Otherwise it would have been called just "chilli jam". For this reason I've changed "invariably" to "almost always" in the first paragraph.

Maerk 13:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Onion marmalade is also A Thing. Mr Larrington (talk) 21:45, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

World Views and all because of Marmalade
"This linguistic difference has occasionally been claimed as emblematic of the irreconcilability of anglophone and continental world views" - by whom? Perhaps the odd boorish-upper-class-empire-lamenting-twat might think so. Sorry but I'm removing. It's totally irrelevant to the definition of marmalade as well as being racist (anti-European), nasty and frankly untrue.--62.249.233.80 16:13, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Parkinson
Did anyone else watch the last Parkinson show last night? Michael Caine was on and chatting about facts he remembers. One was about the etymology of Marmalade, and he gave the "ma'am et malade" or something like that (the Mary Queen of Scots thing). How many people have looked at the marmalade page to check if that was true or not!? Thisnamestaken (talk) 18:03, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

"Mature" marmelade?
What exactly is "mature" marmelade and how does it differ from ordinary marmelade? Is it just aged, or is there something in the preparation? 58.168.126.163 (talk) 02:46, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I like marmalade and have purchased and made many jars. First Seville oranges, I have read, are very bitter and would not be eaten like those found in American supermarkets. When shopping for marmalade "vintage" will be much darker in color and more bitter in taste. I accomplish this at home by using grapefruit and cooking for a long time which may be more "mature" than the sweet quickly cooked variety. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.233.49.179 (talk) 13:36, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

etymology
I heard that the etymology was from "Mar" for sea, plus "Malado" for sickness. Apparently the Portuguese invented marmelade to keep their sailors from getting scurvy. This was a secret only discovered much later by other nationalities, who had to discover this the hard way. The English used limes, thus the name "limey" for sailor. Using oranges in the Portuguese secret recipe was a later improvement. I heard this (in Dutch) here: link to museum video on the website of the Westfries Museum. I can't find a text version anywhere that backs it up. Jane (talk) 12:25, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Problem with this sentence in etymology:

"Marie turn derives from Greek μελίμηλον (melímēlon)[7]."

Perhaps the writer meant to say something like "marie malade derives in turn...", though that is dismissed by most authorities as a pleasant myth.

Randal Oulton (talk) 18:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Various edits today 2011/2/6
I'm glad to see we finally have a level-headed etymology section here. There are rather a lot of references for that section alone, however. Maybe clean it up so there's just one footnote for the same lexicon, rather than three, and link each word from the body text ?

I feel that this topic is susceptible to edits by commercial interests looking to hijack it for their own profit. Keep the smoke-blowing for your own sales literature, guys. Everyone's effort here at Wikipedia isn't yours to steal.Blether (talk) 17:30, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

quince: a question
The article says quite a lot about the history of marmalade starting with quinces, and yet, at the beginning, it mentions a list of contemporary marmalade bases, including orange, lemon, grapefruit, etc, but NOT quinces? Why not? Myles325a (talk) 02:43, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * But it does. See the second paragraph of the lead. Moriori (talk) 21:00, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The second paragraph restricts itself to non-English meanings of the word marmalade or close variants thereof, noting “in Portuguese “marmelada” applies chiefly to quince marmalade (from “marmelo”, quince).” So I can see no reason why quince is excluded from the initial list, especially when it was the first of the marmalades. This recipe: http://homecooking.about.com/od/jellyrecipes/r/bljelly46.htm shows that it continues to be made and consumed in Anglophone countries. I am supposing that the omission of quince from the initial list was an oversight, and I have included it there. There are probably other citrus fruits used to make marmalade, but we don’t have to be anal completists about it. (Just noticed that mandarins are not mentioned here. I myself create a delicious duck l’orange, using a mixture of orange and mandarin, including zest and rind. It’s my own invention and I must say it is damn good.)  Myles325a (talk) 02:17, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh for the record, here's a manadarin marmalade recipe http://www.atablefortwo.com.au/2010/08/11/mandarin-marmalade/ Mandarin might be considered in the article if there is sufficient interest. There are many recipes. Very underrated, the mandarin, subtle, complex, but delicious, rather like me. Myles325a (talk) 02:25, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh oh, I'm embarrassed. Mouiori has made the entirely correct point that quinces are not citrus fruits, and has quite rightly deleted my inclusion of them in the list in the 1st par. I will add mandarins to console myself for this gaffe. Myles325a (talk) 10:46, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Marmalade without citrus fruit
I know that it is sometimes said that the difference between marmalade and jam is that marmalade is only ever made with citrus fruit.The beginning of this article perpetuates this view when it claims that marmalade is made with the juice and peel of citrus fruit. However, surely there is a marmalade without citrus fruit, for shops have sold ginger marmalade. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:32, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Seville oranges were originally preserved in salt, before the sugar industry took off. thats probably the origin of marmalade being traditionally citrus. the seville orange, and specifically its peel, has traditionally been assigned medicinal qualities. so, modern marmalade is a derivative product of the original medicine, probably related to salt cured lemons from the middle east.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:19, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Dundee
Why is the Dundee marmalade section relevant enough to warrant a mention in the encyclopedia? Crasshopper (talk) 07:38, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

In ex-USSR, there is widely know confection called Marmelad, which is basically jelly-like sweet, harder than jelly, softer than gummy candy. You can view it in Russian language version of this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.205.220.166 (talk) 14:42, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks
Many thanks to those who removed the list of fruits that I put in when I said that jam and marmalade are distinguished because different fruits are used to make jams versus marmalades. I am pleased these lists were removed for this reason - I recall I had put down ginger as fruit used to make marmalde, but ginger is not really a fruit, it is a spice. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 11:13, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, as the edible bit is the rhizome, I suppose ginger is a vegetable.  Roger Davies  talk 21:16, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Marmelade European regulations
I had a look at the UK Food Standards Agency regulations, based on the European Union regulations, and the regulations seem to only apply to the exact spelling "marmelade" allowing exception to just German/Austrian marmelades, which share the same spelling. Yet, for instance, the Portuguese quince jam is sold across Europe both on Portuguese food specialized stores an main suoermarket chains (like Intermarche or Carrefour in France or Waitrose and Tesco in the UK) under the label "marmelada". I am adding the citations to the respective paragraphLearningnave (talk) 11:05, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

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Early English Recipe
I see the bit on the recipe from the book by Eliza Cholmondeley in 1677 being one of the earliest recipes. There's an earlier one in The Good Huswifes Jewell, for 'Marmelat of Quinces' dating to 1585. Full text here.Frond Dishlock (talk) 00:44, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * To make Marmelat of Quinces. You must take a pottle of Water, and foure pound of Suger, and so let them boyle together, and when they bryle, you must skimme them as cleane as you can, and you must take the whites of two or three Egges, and beate them to froth, and put the froth into the pan for to make the skum to rise, then skimme it asa cleane as you can, and then take off the kettle and put in the Quinces, and let them boyle a good while, and when they boyle, you must stirre them stil, and when they be boyled you must boxe them vp.

"The preferred citrus fruit for marmalade production is the Spanish Seville or bitter orange,"
Preferred by whom? Though I myself do prefer it, I find it fairly difficult to come by, at least in New York. Most of the marmalade I come across is made from sweet oranges, including some imported ones. I wonder what the situation is elsewhere. Kostaki mou (talk) 02:01, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I eat my words (at least some of them). On closer examination of the ingredients of one easily available product that is simply labelled "orange marmalade," I see that it is in fact made with "sour" (or Seville) oranges.  Sweet definitely seems to be more common, however. Kostaki mou (talk) 03:06, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Russian marmalade confectionery
The Russian page for marmalade focuses on what seems to be a completely different food than the Western European fruit spread, looking more like a sugar-coated gummy candy. The Finnish Vihreät kuulat pictured is also similar to what Russian WP describes. I am having trouble finding English sources that describe this specific type of marmalade. 93 (talk) 01:46, 12 February 2022 (UTC)