Talk:Mars 2020/Archive 1

AGU 2012
There were a lot of mixed feelings in the room after the NASA talk. The exact concept has to be known, especially the instruments before this will get a mission. The launch in 2018 is simply not to make when you want to stay within budget. NASA has to stretch the money to some years. This is not what NASA can afford not what NASA could do if there is plenty of money.--Stone (talk) 08:02, 6 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree. The mission's objective has not been determined, so the payload development, testing and incorporation could not be acomplished in such short notice. Any mention of a 2018 launch has to be treated as speculative. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 16:10, 6 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Grunsfeld ask for people who want to join the Science Definition Team. I do not know now how to get in, but I hope somebody I know will get onboard.--Stone (talk) 20:26, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Power source
The tune is changing, now the Aviation Week is talking of using solar panels:). I will hold back any changes until we hear it from NASA. My assessment is that they will decide on the power source after selecting the scientific payload and defining the objectives. Cheers BatteryIncluded (talk) 22:01, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
 * My guess is that the author read this Wikipedia article and wrongly assumed the old rover concept art was for the 2020 rover. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 19:41, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Aviation Week is quite reliable on the latest scoop; it has been dubbed 'Aviation Leak', but NASA calls the shots. Still waiting for a press release on the mission. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 00:27, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "Q: Will the Mars 2020 rover use the same type of nuclear power source that Curiosity uses?
 * A: No final decision on a power source for the 2020 rover would be made until the mission completes a review through the National Environmental Policy Act process, which considers the environmental impacts of launching and conducting the mission. This process is currently scheduled to conclude in late 2014. The baseline-design power source for 2020 mission planning is the same as Curiosity's: a multi-mission radioisotope thermoelectric generator. Other possible power sources are also under consideration, including solar power." Source: http://mars.nasa.gov/files/m2020/Mars2020FAQs.pdf. 84.147.108.63 (talk) 14:18, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

RFIs starting to go out
The first rover RFI went out last Friday. Things are moving fast but I guess the RFP is still a long way off. I'm drafting a substantial re-write of this article in my userspace by the way. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 09:08, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Unintentionally removed { {Portal|Astrobiology}}
Seems I may have unintentionally rm the { {Portal|Astrobiology}} as a dup - *entirely* ok w/ me if you would like to rv or related - enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 17:24, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I am glad you removed the duplicated portal, even if by mistake. Thanks! BatteryIncluded (talk) 17:32, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

NASA-TV (07/31/2014@12pm/et/usa) - Mars 2020 Rover - Announcement.
NASA-TV (07/31/2014@12 noon/pm/et/usa) - Panel of leading experts to announce instruments for the upcoming Mars 2020 Rover => < ref name="NASA-20140730"> - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 02:49, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * FOLLOWUP - RELATED NASA REFERENCES - Space Experts Announce Mars 2020 Rover Payload => M2020 - Video (51:42) - New Science Instruments (July 2014) - ALSO - < ref name="NASA-20140731a"> - AND - < ref name="NASA-20140731b"> - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 18:10, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Launch table - wrong units
The table shows figures from the source eg 7.7 to 11.1 for 2018 launch. However source says this is launch energy and is in units of km^2/s^2 so it isn't Launch velocity in km/s. I have changed table to show energy and km^2/s^2 units. Not sure if this should show C3-launch energy. Also not sure if this is a meaningful measure that should be included - does it really take that much more energy launch in 2020 rather than 2018? There is also VHP – V∞ (km/sec) which is less for 2020 than for 2018 not sure if that is more meaningful or needed in addition to understand. crandles (talk) 18:21, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm unaware of specific launch energies involved, but I would assume that the 2018 window (which for people reading this in the future is soon and the rover most certainly will not be ready) will cost more, as you stated, because of a not-so-nice alignment of Earth's and Mars's orbital planes. In astrodynamics, plane-change maneuvers are expensive fuel-wise. Madmohawk (talk) 14:30, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Landing sites
FYI, landing site selection presentations are freely available here. This could be an interesting section in the article. There are three landing sites remaining: Jezero Crater, Northeast Syrtis, and Columbia Hills (yes, where Spirit died). Actually, the scientific justification for Columbia Hills is absolutely fascinating. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.79.212.241 (talk) 16:28, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Update
I updated and made a general edit of the article. It was relying too much on the preliminary design proposal. The concept has matured and undergone extensive technical reviews, so I attempted to update the article on that. I moved some text around, and expanded on the rover's role in the potential sample-return. I have taken time and thought to improve this article, but it is possible I made mistakes or messed the display, so please feel free to make corrections as needed.

I also propose to delete the section entitled "Reactions". It may have been relevant in the days following the announcement, but it falls in the WP:Recentism caveat. Most of it is now irrelevant if not outdated. Your thoughts? Cheers, Rowan Forest (talk) (Formerly BatteryIncluded) 01:12, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

What changes from MSL/Curiosity apart from the rover instruments and wheels
Article does not say how aeroshell, parachute, descent vehicle, and sky crane have been changed or if they are the same as MSL. New parachutes have been tested (not sure why) in the ASPIRE tests 2018, Rover is only 150kg heavier. Strangely Mars 2020 seems limited to 0 km altitude landing sites whereas MSL could land at up to +1km altitude. - Rod57 (talk) 11:09, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, the EDL and sky crane remain unchanged, but it has an improved system for better landing accuracy. I have not been able to find more info on that. Rowan Forest (talk) 18:45, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
 * "The Mars 2020 rover adds new entry, descent, and landing (EDL) technologies, such as Terrain-Relative Navigation (TRN). Terrain-Relative Navigation allows the rover to detect and to avoid hazardous terrain by diverting around it during its descent through the Martian atmosphere."

Explanation on how it operates: Rowan Forest (talk) 18:51, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
 * "[…] mission engineers have reduced the landing zone of Mars 2020 to 50 percent smaller than Curiosity's." . -Rowan Forest (talk) 19:01, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

"Mars 2020" is a placeholder name of the Curiosity-derived rover
According to NASA, "Starting Tuesday, K-12 students in U.S. public, private and home schools can enter the Mars 2020 Name the Rover essay contest. One grand prize winner will name the rover and be invited to see the spacecraft launch in July 2020 from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida." This means that the "Mars 2020" is a placeholder name of the Curiosity-derived rover. What are your thoughts with this? —Yours sincerely, Soumyabrata (talk • subpages) 08:13, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It is a well-known fact that the actual name has not determined yet, so why open a discussion about a move that can't be done yet? Rowan Forest (talk) 14:01, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 5 March 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Mars 2020 → Perseverance (rover) – Per the NASA event this page should be moved to Perseverance as the temporary Mars 2020 name is not needed. Anyone who has a simple program to go through and replace Mars 2020 with Perseverance would be appreciated even before the move. AndrewRG10 (talk) 18:40, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose – the mission is Mars 2020, while the rover is Perseverance, much like Mars Science Laboratory is the mission, and Curiosity is its rover. Note especially that Mars 2020 has two spacecraft – Perseverance and the Mars Helicopter Scout – and the topic of this article at this time is still very much the mission rather than solely the rover, including information on the latter spacecraft. –  PhilipTerryGraham (talk &middot;&#32;articles &middot;&#32;reviews) 19:11, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - I've only recently become aware of this discussion - as OA of the recent name change (to "Perseverance (rover)" from "Mars 2020"), perhaps "Perseverance (mission)" would be preferred? - afaik, NASA hasn't (yet) announced an official name for the mission (although "Mars 2020" may be a fallback name for the mission I would think atm) - for my part, I'm *entirely* flexible with whatever "WP:CONSENSUS" decides re the mission name - hope this helps in some way - in any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk)
 * Oppose per PhilipTerryGraham. The page move was premature at best and must be undone. Jonathunder (talk) 20:05, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - FWIW - "undoing" the move and restoring the original article name of "Mars 2020" is *entirely* ok with me - seems this "undoing" procedure may require a special process ("undoing" the move by the usual procedure doesn't seem to work for me at the moment) - thanks. Drbogdan (talk) 20:34, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment And anyone else who comes across this discussion. Do you feel this should be moved back to Mars 2020 till discussion is over as it was incorrectly moved or should it just be left and possible splitting the Helicopter and Rover should be done later? -AndrewRG10 (talk) 21:04, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Drbogdan didn't have a right to move the page before this discussion closed, so it should be moved back ASAP. –  PhilipTerryGraham (talk &middot;&#32;articles &middot;&#32;reviews) 22:21, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd love to do it but I've only been editing articles for a year so I don't know how to undo moves. If possible could you get that done ASAP -AndrewRG10 (talk) 23:55, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't have admin powers/permissions to be able to perform this move back, sorry. –  PhilipTerryGraham (talk &middot;&#32;articles &middot;&#32;reviews) 00:13, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Request - (or other available administrator) - Seems there may be a need for help in restoring the "Mars 2020" title to the currently named "Perseverance (rover)" article - the concern is that a special "undo" process may be required - nonetheless - if, after viewing the above page move discussion, any comments, that such a page move may not be indicated after all for some reason, would be welcome of course - in any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 00:29, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - The Curiosity rover Wikipedia entry was not split off from Mars Science Laboratory until the day it landed. I think that was not ideal, and hopefully there is enough material now to have two articles for the 2020 mission. Schierbecker (talk) 08:02, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment - I think we definetely should work to cut down this article and move most of the rover information to Perseverance_(rover), and yes, preferbly before the day it lands like happened with Curiosity. -AndrewRG10 (talk) 08:19, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose per NASA still referring to the mission as "Mars 2020" and per WP:CONSISTENT. Mars Exploration Rover has a separate page from Spirit (rover) and Opportunity (rover). As mentioned by others, Mars Science Laboratory has a separate page from Curiosity (rover). The content relevant to the rover should be moved to Perseverance (rover) and the rest of the content should remain. TXAggie (talk) 23:19, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose per others. It is better to call the rover "Preseverance" and the mission "Mars 2020" than calling both of them "Preseverance". --Soumyabrata (talk • subpages) 09:08, 9 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Launch date
Page says Launch Date Aug 13 2020 in the sidebar, but launch is currently set for July 30. Launch window ends Aug 15, but unless the author knows something NASA doesn't, there is nothing to support a date of Aug 13.

Budget
What is really missing on all of those mission articles is the mission's budget/cost data. At least an estimation if NASA does not publish official data. The Good Samaritan (talk) 11:17, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * There is one line at the head of the "Mission" section that compares the budgets of MSL and M2020, but I do agree that it should be emphasized a bit more. Gex4pls (talk) 14:05, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Flight to mars
About 21 hours before landing, the probe has a speed of approx. 76,800 kp/h. However, the probable distance of around 471 million kilometers to Mars cannot have been covered by the probe at this speed since its launch, 198 days ago. With the mentioned speed it can only have covered 364.9 or 365 million kilometers. The probe must have had an average speed of 99.116 kph, to travel the mentioned way in the mentioned time. By the way: according to sciencedaily, the probe beginn to travel from Earth at an even lower speed of 39,600 kph. My conclusion is, that the probe had switched on its booster in between. Does someone has more infos on that? LennBr (talk) 00:00, 18 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what is wrong with your calculations, but suspect it could be that you haven't accounted for how much the two planets have each moved during the 6+ month transit from Earth to Mars.  Cheers.  N2e (talk) 02:59, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

The vehicle accelerates as it approaches Mars, it's a near-Earth size planet. Is 77k km/s high? It slowed on the way outward from the sun to Mars, and needed 40k km/s to escape Earth's gravity well; 77k - 40k is 37k it picked up over all. Partridgefoot (talk) 22:22, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

descent stage / skycrane
I don't see any ( comparable to the other mission items ) specifics for the descent stage and skycrane part of the mission.

The "Entry, Descent, and Landing System (EDLS)" link links to a (redirected) generic description.

never existed or something gone wrong? ZwergAlw (talk) 18:26, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Help Welcome - "Timeline of Mars 2020"
The newly created "Timeline of Mars 2020", related to the "Mars 2020" page, and which would include events related to the "Perseverance rover" and "Ingenuity helicopter" pages, may need help in updating and related - the newly created page structure is based on the earlier "Timeline of Mars Science Laboratory" page which includes events related to the "Curiosity rover" - Thanks - in any case - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 17:09, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Google is setting off virtual fireworks across screens
On success of Mars 2020, Google is setting off virtual fireworks across screens for keywords "Mars 2020" and "Perseverance". Please mention it in the article. Source Rizosome (talk) 04:33, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌ but thanks for the info. Edit requests must be of the form A to B ala WP:EDITXY. And I'm not sure this belongs in the article. UserTwoSix (talk) 05:02, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Please add Easter eggs
Please add Easter eggs on this page as said by nasa in its latest tweet https://mobile.twitter.com/nasa/status/1378759043792171017 Chinakpradhan (talk) 04:55, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

I have published the photos and added them on timeline of Mars 2020 page but please add the inscription or on the perseverance page Chinakpradhan (talk) 15:55, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

peculiar thing in martian sky
Chinakpradhan (talk) 07:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

i saw this strange thing in martian  sky tgat i zoomed in and compressed  it together keeping the original one on left side which was published  by nasa in its mars 2020 raw images. Chinakpradhan (talk) 07:17, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

could anyone explain me what was it Chinakpradhan (talk) 07:18, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

it was published on 5 April,2020 and i want to add it on Wikipedia pages. Is this pic eligible to be put on Wikipedia pages Chinakpradhan (talk) 07:21, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

i want to add it with name mysterious thing seen in martian sky by Perseverance Rover Chinakpradhan (talk) 07:24, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

please tell anyone Chinakpradhan (talk) 07:25, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

original photo is here https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/multimedia/raw-images/NLF_0044_0670851635_495EBY_N0031416NCAM00602_00_0LLJ Chinakpradhan (talk) 09:30, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Please reply? Chinakpradhan (talk) 01:51, 7 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Unless NASA or other scientific experts comment on it, it is not up to us to try to make deductions that this is "strange". --M asem (t) 01:59, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The Mars rainbow lens-flare burned us once already today, let's see where this one goes. I'd guess Batman's spring break. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:33, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

New page for an article
Please someone make a page for van zyl overlook. It is an important site in Mars 2020 mission especially for ingenuity Chinakpradhan (talk) 17:18, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Unknown thing on mars 2020
Can anyone explain what is this? Chinakpradhan (talk) 15:44, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Italics
Interesting use of italics.

Mars 2020 is a Mars rover mission forming part of NASA's Mars Exploration Program that includes the rover Perseverance and the small robotic, coaxial helicopter Ingenuity.

Interesting, but not endorsed by NASA:

Do not use italics for names of ships, aircraft, or spacecraft. These should appear in roman text with initial caps.
 * Style Guide for NASA History Authors and Editors
 * Space Shuttle Atlantis
 * Friendship 7
 * USS Hornet
 * Glamorous Glennis

&mdash; MaxEnt 01:26, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Robotic?
Do we really need to say that Ingenuity is "robotic"?

Mars 2020 is a Mars rover mission forming part of NASA's Mars Exploration Program that includes the rover Perseverance, the small manned, coaxial helicopter Ingenuity, and six Tibetan house-elves surgically enhanced with "camel" humps of oxygen-rich whale blubber, permitting up to an hour of unaided extravehicular activity, along with a copious supply of Tang-flavoured mRNA immunosuppressants / free-radical scavengers.

[*] Opinions differed as to whether a spacesuit qualifies as clothing, but it spared so much launch mass to send the elves up starkers to the gills that good Dr Uplift finally prevailed.

[**] No-one expected the house elves to go Donner party over the Tang crystals, enough to last all six for decades hence. But Lady "starkers" Macbeth decided otherwise. Live and learn. Now she flies Ingenuity solo all over Mars, with cameras running and her digital feed streaming back to Earth. Whether to actually record Lady Macbeth's drone feed when it arrives back on Earth is a deep ethical question. Following the dictates of their "sister" organization, the NSA, NASA decided to record everything just in case, and that it only counts as "collection" if human eyes actively poke into this captured data trove at some later date; meanwhile they deny "collecting" any of this blood data, on the grounds that it merely sits there on encrypted storage, as yet unexamined by any human mind.

&mdash; MaxEnt 01:26, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

General discussion
, hi Nice to meet you. Didnt thought of asking you but, just some general query. do you think this as sky crane. Plus just tell that since the launch didn't occurred on 5th March so do I need to add a yellow row of failed flight or leave the table as it is??Chinakpradhan (talk) 15:44, 13 March 2022 (UTC)