Talk:Martín Alonso Pinzón

Catholic?
Several Muslim websites I have seen allege that the Pinzon brothers were Muslim. None give any basis for that claim. It seems odd given Spain's antagonism towards Muslims; one purpose of Columbus' voyage was to finance a new crusade against Muslims. On the other hand, I know some Muslims group refuse to recognize any apostasy. Were the Pinzons conversos? Has anyone ever heard of any basis for a claim that they were Muslim? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.148.21.9 (talk) 19:29, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Lack of references
Your article makes many claims of stolen glory and of the great skill of the Pinzon brothers. However, the lack of references leads me to question the validity of these conclusions. Could you please point me toward some sources on the topic?- Shoe1127 21:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

This article claims Pinzon was a better seaman than Columbus. There has to be a citation in the article, or it can be regarded as "hearsay".--Ultrafan 15:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It's correct that the article requires better references and citations. However, the claims made in the article have a certain amount of validity. There is some evidence, from Columbus's own comments,in his 'Diario', which point to the fact that Columbus was not an expert shipmaster and commander, on that first voyage in 1492-93. If Columbus's claim that he had more than twenty years of seagoing experience was true, it would suggest that he hadn't learnt as much as he should have, during his time at sea. From that, it can be inferred that Columbus relied on the experience and expertise of others to achieve his objectives and the Pinzon brothers would appear to have been the most likely candidates for that! J.Fowler —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.240.68 (talk) 13:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that with my recent edits, this issue should be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. - Jmabel | Talk 21:13, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

it's Alonso not Alonzo
Alonzo is a quite typical Latin American misspelling that have reached to English speakers. In Spanish Alonzo and Alonso are pronounced in different way (Alonzo is pronounced "Alontho", th like in "thin"). The correct pronunciation is "Alonso" therefore the correct spelling is Alonso. This kind of misspelling are quite common in Latin American Spanish due the have merged the sounds 'c' and 'z' with 's', but in a pure Castilian Spanish this sounds are kept in the original way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.125.22.213 (talk) 14:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Month of Death inconsistent with references.
The Catholic 1913 has it as,
 * The monarch refusing to receive anyone but the admiral, Pinzón sailed for Palos, which he reached on the same day as Columbus (15 March, 1493). Setting out immediately for Madrid to make a fresh attempt to see the king, he was met by a messenger who forbade him to appear at court. Anger and jealousy, added to the privations of the voyage, undermined his health, and led to his death a few months later.

(my bold). It is thus impossible for the date of "March" which is used across all the Wikipedia language versions to be true. What is it ?. November has been used before but I'd like a cite. It certainly doesn't look like March. Ttiotsw (talk) 22:39, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Edited accordingly (being less specific), though I'm not sure how much I trust that source on this or any other matter. It's pretty obvious that Kennedy has a strong animus Pinzón (though for this particular fact I suppose that's irrelevant). - Jmabel | Talk 21:40, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd really like to see an additional independent citation on this, if anyone has one. - Jmabel | Talk 23:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Document Broken?
There is something like " Bold text==See also==

* [[The PinItalic[[ "

in the document. --80.139.98.112 (talk) 12:40, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Translation from es-wiki in progress
I'm in the midst of the requested translation from Spanish. I'm drawing both from the corresponding Spanish language article and from the overlapping, better-cited es:Hermanos Pinzón. Taking a break for the night right now, but I believe I should complete it in the next day or so. - Jmabel | Talk 05:56, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Pretty much complete, though I'm still trying to track down citations. I removed one substantive remark that was in the old article here: that Pinzón "engaged in erratic behavior typical of the [syphilis]." Neither examples nor citation were provided. If anyone has something to back it up, do feel free to restore it with citation. - Jmabel | Talk 20:34, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

There are a few remaining statements in the article that lack citations. All of them come from before I got here. If anyone can cite for them, that would be appreciated. I made a reasonable effort to cite for what I inherited and couldn't replace, and most of it looks reasonable ,but some of it is opinions (e.g. "It should be said that Columbus's voyage plan for that day - November 21 - must have seemed pointless and rather reckless in the circumstances") and needs citation. - Jmabel | Talk 21:13, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Cut from article: "(It should be said that Columbus's voyage plan for that day - November 21 - must have seemed pointless and rather reckless in the circumstances. Columbus was heading back towards the Bahamian islands which they had already visited. In other words Columbus seemed intent on returning to a region of islands, shoals and reefs, where they knew that sailing was difficult and dangerous and where there was little of significance to profit the voyage.)"

Again if this can be cited from a reputable historian or commentator, it should be added back. Now that I've added cited material from two historians discussing the events of November 21, I don't think this third uncited theory belongs. - Jmabel | Talk 22:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Puerto Rico
I removed the claim (from the Spanish article) that the land Pinzón discovered while separated from Columbus may have been Puerto Rico. I can find no citation for this in any reliable source; if someone has a reliable source, please feel free to re-add with citation. I have reduced the statement simply to the fact that scholars disagree about the island geography of the first voyage and cited one reliable source that conjectures that the land was Haiti. - Jmabel | Talk 18:48, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

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