Talk:Martin Brodeur/Archive 2

GA review
While reviewing, I basically compared its format with Wayne Gretzky, which is an FA.

I am placing the article on hold until the following concerns are addressed:
 * 1) This is minor, but I think the medal information should go under the main infobox, that's what most Olympian articles that I've seen do.
 * 2) The records section should be prosified and go after the craeer statistics section. Many of the records aren't notable, such as the team records and others such as the placings could use a sentence saying "as of February 2007" or something along those lines. Either way, the section needs shortening, again, model it after the records section on the Wayne Gretzky page, as it's an FA.
 * 3) The awards section should also go after career statistics, but it doesn't need prosification.
 * 4) The statistics portion of "International play" should stay where it is, but the paragraphs could perhaps be added to the main part of the article.
 * 5) the "General references" section should be renamed "External links" and go at the bottom of the article.
 * 6) The Personal life section needs sources that can confirm that he has children, etc. Also "Best goalie ever." is extreme POV.
 * 7) The NHL career section could use a few more cites. Everything that could be taken as POV is sourced, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to have a couple cites.
 * 8) Generally, the prose flows well and is very well-written. Good job!

Once these concerns are addressed, contact me and I'll re-review the article. Many of my concerns are format-related so it shouldn't take too long to modify the article. Thanks for your work on the article so far -- Scorpion 18:42, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Just a small note, the medal info should go with the International stats. -- Scorpion 23:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for taking your time to review this article. I have made a few changes already in accordance with your suggestions, but I have a few concerns. The Wayne Gretzky article is definitely very nice, but I do not feel that EVERY aspect of this article needs to coincide with that one. I understand that using it as a benchmark makes sense, but I don't think this article needs to be replicated down to the very grain of the other. I was also not sure about Marty's records. It can be put into prose form, but it won't stand out as much. I think people like reading these kinds of things in list form. Gretzky has a records list as well, but it's so long that it's in a separate article. Lastly, does the medal have to go with the international stats? It looks good where it is, I think. Sorry to be so picky on this. You're definitely right about the sources, it needs more. I'll work on that. Sportskido8 02:10, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't like the look with the medalbox in the stats section, bring it back up. --Krm500 02:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, could the records section at least be trimmed down? For example, are all of the Devils records really needed? Perhaps just a small section saying he is the Devils all-time leader in wins, losses, ties, GA, etc.
 * As for the medals section, I was just going by what I've seen in other medal winning athlete pages, but I've made a couple rearranges. And I at first thought the international tournaments he had participated in could go below, but I think it's okay.
 * Finally, I think the awards section needs sources too. It shouldn't be that hard, the official NHL site has a good trophies section that you can cite. -- Scorpion 02:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Does the new legacy section tie everything in well? Sportskido8 10:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yea, looks good in my opinion. --Krm500 12:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The legacy section looks very good, but could each record have a cite, or at least a sentence saying "records according to _____". Basically, the article just needs some more citations, then its done. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scorpion0422 (talk • contribs) 16:47, 1 March 2007 (UTC).
 * Ok, I will work on the references. The reason why I didn't put the cites in the actual records section is because I sourced all of them in the NHL prose above (or most of them I think). But I will add something in to records as well. Sportskido8 19:35, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I did notice that, but it certainly doesn't hurt to have a source. -- Scorpion 19:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * There are two days left until the articles on hold status is expired. Are you ready for me to reevaluate the article? -- Scorpion 18:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well there are close to 50 sources now but I could add more if you want me to. Sportskido8 01:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * No need. It's of GA quality in its present form, so I grant this article GA status. -- Scorpion 02:06, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations sportskido!--Krm500 02:08, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Woohoo! Thanks. Now it's time to get this to FA-status, eventually. Sportskido8 02:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd love to see another hockey article reach FA status, so I'll help out where I can. But just so we're clear on something: Leafs > Devils. That is all. -- Scorpion 04:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation and some new photos
I'm not really a hockey fan but I saw some nice creative commons pics of him on flickr and uploaded them to Commons. I came here to add one of the pics and I noticed there is no mention of the correct pronunciation of his name. Since it's kind of tricky shouldn't that be included? I mean isn't it pronounced Mar-tan Bro-door? Usually we Americans pronounce Martin Mart-en. So maybe some breakdown of the pronunication is in order. Quadzilla99 07:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Incidentally all the pics are located here. I also put a commons box down in the external links section which redirects to the page with the pics. Quadzilla99 07:17, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Awesome. I didn't think we had any more open licensed pics of him. Sportskido8 20:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The correct way, in fact, is Mar-tan Bro-dooor. The last sylable isn't pronounced like "door" but more like how it sounds in "do".  Mike Emrick, who makes it a point to pronounce every NHL's player name correctly, says it right in NJ Devil broadcasts.  Here is the official pronounciation guide: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/shn/pronunc.htm  132.238.143.131 19:25, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Rather than 'do', it is more like 'duh'r. Sort of like broa'duh'r. Closest I could come with. It definitely isnt close to how he is usually pronounced by english announcers although that guideline site you link to at least makes it so it is always pronounced the same way, at least. But it isnt how it is actually meant to sound. His name just uses phonetic elements that dont exist in english, such as the french r and the eu sound. --Vineon 03:45, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

The FA-nom
I put the article up for FA-nomination today. I can't see anything that would hold it back. Sportskido8 16:10, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Wins Edits
Please stop editing matters related to "wins" in this article. His records stand and are accepted by the NHL regardless of changes in NHL regulations. Rules change often and not always for the better when it comes to records. Brodeur was well on his way to these records before the shootout was implemented and this change does not affect his achievement. If you wish to say that he somehow doesn't deserve this acclaim please also attach notes to his GAA and Save % to account for larger offensive zones, more PP time, pad restrictions, the trapezoid, penalties on D-men, and other rule changes that have negatively affected his ability to achieve certain career numbers.

I don't know if these edits are by sore fans of other teams but these numbers are sourced from the NHL and as such are are the holy word when it comes to NHL matters. If your feelings of denial and anger persist I suggest you seek counseling. JRWalko 02:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, exactly. Thank you. Bsroiaadn 03:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Early Life
I will try and start this section at some point today but I'm kind of busy so if anybody wants to help with this I could sure use it because it can make or break whether this gets accepted as a featured article. Sportskido8 19:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I added a little bit at the end. I don't know how to footnote, but here is my source http://ca.askmen.com/men/sports_60/86c_martin_brodeur.html Nathanalex 00:01, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Cool, I added your source in. Sportskido8 18:12, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

No nickname?
I'm pretty sure "Marty" constitutes as a nickname. Albeit not very creative. If he hasn't had a "real" nickname by now, he probably will never get one, unfortunately. Should "Marty" be added back into the nickname field of the infobox? Bsroiaadn 06:17, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I feel like it's enough of a nickname to put in the infobox. Most people (myself included) refer to him like that, right? But since it is sourced that he has no nickname, I'll wait on this to see if there's a consensus to change it. Sportskido8 19:39, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Marty does have a nickname. It's 'Devilish Stopper' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.200.144.122 (talk) 05:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No, it's not. Marty if anything. --Michael Greiner 19:09, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually he does, he has many, and Devilish Stopper is one of them. Martin Brodeur"Brody" "The Door" "Satan's Wallpaper" "Devilish Stopper" "Brickwall" "The Man". Source: http://www.angelfire.com/id/goalienicknames/goalienicknames.html

Number 67 on the list —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.200.144.103 (talk) 05:48, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not a reliable source. --Michael Greiner 10:40, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've never heard any of those, though, to be honest. I've heard of "Marty the Magician" and "Magical Marty", though I'm not entirely sure where they came from. BsroiaadnTalk 00:35, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

According to Sean Avery, another appropriate nickname is "Fatso" - http://faceoffcircle.net/2008/04/18/quote-of-the-year-from-sean-avery/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.92.191 (talk) 07:26, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a nickname, just a name. --Michael Greiner 21:52, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Adultery with Sister-in-Law
Why was that part of his personal life edited out? It doesn't even say he's divorced now. None of us are perfect, so lets not treat him as a god. 64.231.65.141 02:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This anon user is right, you guys should make mention of the scandal in here somewhere. Also try to incorporate the new records into the text so it isn't listy.  JHMM13  06:14, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Personal life section
I wonder if we could scrap the second paragraph in the personal life section. It doesn't have a source and seems kind of insignificant. A small town names a building and a golf tournament after him? And the golf tournament raised money for a children's park? Well that is all very wonderful, but I think it could be gotten rid of, especially considering there's no source. Thoughts? (I'm surprised no objects were about the lack of source there, but I guess adding obscure box scores are more important...) Nathanalex 18:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You just got an object. I can't find anything in English (or French but I really have a very limited understanding of that language) verifying the paragraph, only thing I can find is the name and that is from a Keyhole/Google Earth post. (Not reliable) I say remove it. Michael Greiner 20:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Does every athlete who is divorce have such a lurid section? He is known not for his sex life but for his sport life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Radio Guy (talk • contribs) 03:01, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Unbelieveable
A bunch of nit-picky reasons caused this article to not get promoted to FA-status. As to how this can get any better, I am very confused...Sportskido8 20:58, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, I talked to Raul654 and he put it back. Sportskido8 21:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Woohoo!
Thanks to everyone who helped make this article FA-status. I remember in the beginning when it was kind of a mess, so it's definitely come a long way. Glad that Marty has an article that is reflective of his calibur! Sportskido8 09:22, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I also added a front-page request for May 6 (Marty's birthday) but I'm not sure that it will be put up on such short notice. Fingers crossed. Sportskido8 09:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I doubt it will be, especially considering how long the Devils front page request has been up. Michael Greiner 13:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah I figured. It went to something else. Sportskido8 20:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe you could request the day of the NHL Awards, since Marty will most likely be nominated for the Vezina. Since we don't know exactly when the cup playoffs will end, it seems the most appropriate date for a hockey TFA. -- Scorpion0422 21:06, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Congratualtions on another great job Sportskido8 and all others who have been working on this article! --Krm500 22:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, congrats to all who worked on this, especially Sportskido8. Bsroiaadn 06:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

middle name
As use of middle names is *extremely* unusual for Quebecers (I know some people who don't even know their middle names!), I'm considering adding a note to the effect that he never actually used it, what do you think? Circeus 22:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I doubt it's necessary. Most articles on people list middle names whether or not the person uses it or not. I don't think a note is needed. --Michael Greiner 22:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I mean..for an example..look at Jarome Iginla..I doubt he uses that whole thing.  Bsroiaadn Talk 08:45, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * for the same reason you noted, I'd rather have it removed, personally.--Vineon 03:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

encyclopedias don't make predictions
Beisdes not using the future tense, as in team X will play team Y an dnot team X an Y are scheduled to play on date Z, we don't have encuycpoedias saying that someone is on pace to surpass someone else's record. We simply sttes that he is second only to Roy or second only to Sawchuck. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Radio Guy (talk • contribs) 03:07, 24 November 2007 (UTC)