Talk:Martin Corry (politician)

The Year of Disappearances
I'm not sure of the years in the title of this book. Gill ^ Macmillan's page gives "1920–1921", but the accompanying cover picture seems to be "1920–1923", while the Irish Independent's review has "1921–22". jnestorius(talk) 12:25, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I've removed the current text and source until some form of wording can be used which can illustrate how it has been totally discreditd. A number of Historians have completly lamblasted the book, with the only positive comments coming from Independent Newspapers columnists, Kevin Myers, Eoghan Harris and John-Paul McCarthy.


 * 1) John Borgovono
 * 2) Niall Meehan
 * 3) David Fitzpatrick
 * 4) John A Murphy
 * 5) Pádraig Óg Ó Ruairc
 * 6) Jack Lane
 * 7) John M. Regan
 * 8)
 * 9)


 * With such a disputed source, caution is needed.-- Domer48 'fenian'  13:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * That two of the columnists are linked with the Reform Group extra caution is required.-- Domer48 'fenian'  14:58, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

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The Year of Disappearances - revisted
A paragraph previously removed was recently added back. Even ignoring the many historians criticising the book at above, there are numerous problems with the addition. I will quote chapters not page numbers as I only have the ebook version.


 * claims Corry personally killed about 35 forcibly disappeared civilians, from a total of 73 in the Cork area of whom 26 were abducted after the June 1921 ceasefire is presumably sourced by the book, in addition to the Independent reference at the end of the sentence. The Independent says He seems to have presided over the murder of about 35 people between 1920 and 1922, no mention of the 73, 26, June 21 ceasfire, or even the 35 he is said to have "personally killed ("presided over" =/= "personally killed"). The book itself doesn't appear to make the claims either. When referring to an prison claimed to exist outside the city, in chapter 2 he says Yet here was an account detailed the execution of dozens of prisoners, as seen from the viewpoint of the men who were involved in the executions and burial of the bodies. These prisoners were a mixture of British soldiers, Black and Tans and civilian 'spies', only three of whom are mentioned by name. Martin Corry, the local IRA captain and later well-known Fianna Fáil. TD, who was Jim Fitzgerald's main source, claimed the real number was 35. So the claim of Corry personally killing 35 civilians is quite simply not what the book says. Equally the claim the 35 were all civilians is not what the book says, they were a mixture and as only three of them named so it is seemingly impossible to break down the 35. In addition I can find no mention of the claimed 73 in the book. The actual number of executions Corry was personally responsible for is detailed in chapter 7, One of the main reasons for the lack of any reference to Sing Sing in the history books has got to be the longevity and political clout of Martin J. Corry. Corry, on his IRA pension application form, said he had executed 27 individuals in Knockraha. I have replaced the obscure references in the lead with the book, and kept this claim in the body.


 * Murphy presents the Cork IRA's targeting of Protestants, and particular suspicion of members of the YMCA, Boy Scouts, and Methodist community, as amounting to ethnic cleansing is again presumably sourced by the book, in addition to the Indepedent reference linked to above. The Independent uses the phrase twice, once in the headline and again in the sentence Professor John A Murphy fares little better. His claim that "there was no ethnic-cleansing on the South Mall" is treated with derision. The book is equally sparse when using the phrase. Chapter 45 says And what of the widely held belief that, as John A. Murphy put it, ‘there was no ethnic cleansing on the South Mall’, in other words that the old Cork establishment continued as it had done from British rule right through the years of the Irish Free State?. Chapter 57 says One of the most striking statistics to emerge from this investigation is the large number of Protestant families who had to flee the southeastern corner of Cork city during these years. It is likely that the departure and widespread expulsion of Protestants from the Blackrock Road and Douglas areas in 1922 was at least in part an attempt to cover up the killing of teenagers in both areas a year earlier. All we know about the boys who died is that ‘they mostly came from good families’. At least some of those ‘good families’ were the families mentioned in YMCA records as having left in the second half of 1921: the Hosfords, Warners, Williamsons and Julians among others.2 But most appear to have left in 1922. It would be incorrect to describe this as ‘ethnic cleansing’ since the departed Protestant families were often replaced by other Protestants, but it was one of the most dramatic expulsions of non-Catholics seen in the South during these years and it occurred mostly between March and July 1922. I have included this paragraph in full, to make it explicitly clear that Murphy says it would be "incorrect" to describe the expulsion of Protestants from the Blackrock Road and Douglas areas. A couple of paragraphs later in the same chapter, he says It is sometimes said that there was no ethnic cleansing on the South Mall. Certainly, if you were a Protestant from the north or west side of the city, that was the case. If you came from the south-eastern corner of the city though, from the area from Blackrock to Douglas, you might beg to differ. These are the only uses of "ethnic cleansing" in the book, and none of them refer to Corry. In addition, in the one area Gerard Murphy even mentions the possibility of ethnic cleansing taking place, he says it would be "incorrect" to call it ethnic cleansing!

As the other sentences in the paragraph relate to the two thoroughly discredited sentences, I have also removed them. FDW777 (talk) 16:55, 1 February 2020 (UTC)