Talk:Martin Gray (writer)

Untitled
I have the book with his history in Portuguese. The heading is “On behalf of All Mine”. I'm looking for more books about him in portuguese and I do not find it. I have much pity. It was the human document more dramatical then I have ever read.
 * He was an impostor agent of Beria's mass-murdering NKVD, and Mietek Grayewski is an ordinary Polish name not a Jewish one.

POV tag
This concerns POV tag cleanup. Whenever an POV tag is placed, it is necessary to also post a message in the discussion section stating clearly why it is thought the article does not comply with POV guidelines, and suggestions for how to improve it. This permits discussion and consensus among editors. From WP tag policy: '''Drive-by tagging is strongly discouraged. The editor who adds the tag must address the issues on the talk page, pointing to specific issues that are actionable within the content policies, namely Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. Simply being of the opinion that a page is not neutral is not sufficient to justify the addition of the tag. Tags should be added as a last resort.''' Better yet, edit the topic yourself with the improvements. This statement is not a judgement of content, it is only a cleanup of frivolously and/or arbitrarily placed tags. No discussion, no tag.Jjdon (talk) 22:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the point has already been made here. --84.66.82.73 (talk) 13:11, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

What is this about claims to be a Holocaust survivor? This stinks very much of nazi revisionism. No support is given for the "claim" to not be correct and to my knowledge his surviving of the Holocaust is beyond doubt.

I am not an expert on this issue, but I believe that there has been some doubt cast on the accuracy of Gray's account, in particular it has been claimed that his time in Treblinka concentration camp is a hoax. PatGallacher (talk) 15:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I have read the article in the french wikipedia, hoping to find proper sources. Unfortunately, the 13 sources there are all from Martin Gray himself. I thought that was not permitted in Wikipedia to write an article about someone and to use that someone as source. However, in some cases, it seems the only way. For instance, the case of Raymond Klibansky, philosopher, who's only account accessible to the public comes from a book where he relates his past. I have no doubt that what he tells his true: he wrote to Winston Churchill, he exchange letters with Einstein, etc. But even professional encyclopedias seem to use his biography has the only bibliographical source. If we begin to question every little detail, demanding a source to confirm each of them, what will be left of history? I did some local historical research in my hometown and once I had removed everything not confirmed by proper sources, I was left with almost nothing... I am wondering where to draw the line. Tempus90 (talk) 18:09, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

POV and Primary sources problem
From browsing the history and reading the french talk page I see the following issues:
 * primary sources: There seem to be few if any independent sources available. Everything seems to be based on information coming from the man himself.
 * Even then, there is doubt about when he was born: In the introduction of his book Le livre de la vie it says born in 1925, consistent with the content of For Those I Loved (where he's 14 years in 1939) but his official website states 27 April 1922 as date of birth.
 * Doubts about the events described in his first book: claims by some that most of it was made up by Max Gallo, his ghost writer. It's not clear if this includes him being at Treblinka at all (the french talk page mentions that Pierre Vidal-Naquet had withdrawn such an accusation in a letter to Le Monde januari 1984).
 * POV and SOURCE seem to be used more than once to add or remove parts of the article. Among them:
 * ... who claims to be a holocaust survivor.
 * was a Lieutenant in the Red Army, became a Captain in the Red army


 * Member of the NKVD (The People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs of the Soviet Union)

So, how to solve the POV and SOURCE issues, and can they be solved at all? You can't start every sentence with "He claims". And if SOURCE is strictly applied, there's no article at all.

The biography page on his site (http://www.martingray.eu/biography.htm) has only ten lines about the period before his emigration so there's hardly a reason to be selective on what is included. So just put everything in the article (there's no mention of the NKVD btw). It's the only way to avoid POV imo. And I also think it will give readers the opportunity to form an opinion about the reliability of the source.

This is assuming that the web site is indeed approved by Gray. DS Belgium (talk) 15:24, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
 * This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
 * There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
 * It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
 * In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:06, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

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