Talk:Martin Hirsch

Anecdote from 2010
Forums (france 3, rmc ...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by KenyanLake (talk • contribs) 11:11, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * RTL (from Lévy)
 * Valeurs actuelles(July 8, 2010).
 * site des identitaires
 * Riposte laïque
 * Le Post
 * Nations presse, l'organe de presse plus ou moins officieux du FN
 * Le site du journal Les 4 vérités
 * Le site de Gollnish
 * Le site du Parti de la France
 * Le blog de Paul-Marie Coûteaux
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * Sorry but what we need is either international coverage, or significant national press more than 2 months after the event. Blogs, forums do not qualify as valid sources. --Anneyh (talk) 22:47, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * This is your rule driven by political reasons. As you may notice this item was set up a long time ago on the article. Please to not export french war edit there.--KenyanLake (talk) 07:17, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There were already two other editors that reverted the change, so please avoid saying that I'm "exporting" a wp:fr war (also this article is not and by far the only one I edited here, and I hardly ever contribute to political subjects on wp:fr).
 * May I suggest you read WP:UNDUE and WP:NEUTRALITY? I don't think the sentence "One of his remarkable ideas is now known." complies with neutrality. And the sentence "Mr. Martin Hirsch's ideas on how the French and their generations to come should assimilate in relation to the immigrants was commented by (French) Élisabeth Levy" does not tell anything to the reader. Moreover, I think the whole "story" is just an anecdote unless there are some reliable sources more than 2 months after the event or some kind of international coverage. --Anneyh (talk) 08:30, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There were already two other editors that reverted the change, so please avoid saying that I'm "exporting" a wp:fr war (also this article is not and by far the only one I edited here, and I hardly ever contribute to political subjects on wp:fr).
 * May I suggest you read WP:UNDUE and WP:NEUTRALITY? I don't think the sentence "One of his remarkable ideas is now known." complies with neutrality. And the sentence "Mr. Martin Hirsch's ideas on how the French and their generations to come should assimilate in relation to the immigrants was commented by (French) Élisabeth Levy" does not tell anything to the reader. Moreover, I think the whole "story" is just an anecdote unless there are some reliable sources more than 2 months after the event or some kind of international coverage. --Anneyh (talk) 08:30, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Third opinion
Hello and thank you for requesting a third opinion in this discussion. I am completely unfamiliar with French politics, but not with political subjects. As I read this article, the subject is primarily known for his work with poverty and homelessness in France. This has lead to his appointment as commissioner. The comment that User:KenyanLake seeks to include is not directly relevant to the subject's notability, nor to his political office. It seems to be an offhand comment, and in an article as short as this one is, would result in undue weight being given to a particular statement. However, I also believe that User:Anneyh is making an unsupported argument for sourcing. While significant coverage from reliable sources is the standard for an article, notability is not a standard for content within an article about a notable subject.

In this case, I believe that the inclusion of this particular statement made by Hirsch is being included in order to cast him in a particular light. My lack of knowledge of the intricacies of French politics prevents me from concluding whether this is a positive or negative allusion. I still feel that in such a short article, the inclusion, at this point, carries undue weight in pointing out that particular statement given the lack of substantive coverage of other opinions held by the subject. Unless the article can be expanded to include other positions held, it is inappropriate to include only this position.  Jim Miller  See me 20:53, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * JimMillerJr, many thanks for your time.
 * I have some familiarity with French politics, but not with editing articles in about politics. Actually what I was trying to say on sources is that I could not find anything about this statement from Martin Hirsh in newspaper like Le Monde or Le figaro, whereas for example his latest book on conflicts of interest (Pour en finir avec les conflits d'intérêts, 2010) and the related comments were reported in both newspapers. --Anneyh (talk) 22:10, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Of course, en.wiki need to have this article of Martin Hirsch expended. However, many people are ready to clear this kind of item just for political reasons instead of working seriously to expand it. This problem is identical with Nepotism. Compare both en.wiki and fr.wiki and you will understand what is happening to fr.wiki.--AlDafna (talk) 22:35, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * To all of those who thinks the statement is worth being included, please first expand the article and then we can discuss whether the sentence should be included. At this stage, including the citation is not appropriate as it gives it an WP:UNDUE weight. The situation of each wiki is independent. --Anneyh (talk) 07:33, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

If we accept Anneyh (talk) version, what is next? [] Check French and English wiki to see what will happen!--LiliMarleine (talk) 07:26, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I have no ownership on this article or any version of it, I just happen to be one of the few persons following the few persons following the article of this not so notable French politician. --Anneyh (talk) 10:12, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Material sourced to TV shows
I removed the material about what Hirsch said on TV and what someone else said on TV as potential copyright violations (sourced to a video web service that apparently anyone can upload to), as poorly worded, as controversial without any context - and the second assertion makes no sense. There needs to be some discussion as to what belongs in this article and what doesn't and to source what belongs carefully.

As a separate matter, I reworded the first sentence about what he's done in the past. I understood the French article, but the wording in the English article was hard to follow. It probably still needs more editing to make it accurate and understandable.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:41, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * "It probably still needs more editing to make it accurate and understandable" So do it! But do not delete!--AlDafna (talk) 23:00, 15 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but there are too many problems with the material. If for no other reason than the copyright issue, it can't be used. But even if you could demonstrate that there is no copyright violation, you'd still have to justify inclusion of the material, establish context, and make it coherent. If the copyright violation didn't exist AND I understood what you were trying to say, I would be happy to edit it for better wording, but in its present state, no.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:46, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Per WP:ELNEVER these links simply cannot be used, we cannot presume these private users have the rights to publish these videos. Insertion of these links can be reverted without question per WP:3RR. Rehevkor ✉  23:39, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Temporary protection
I'm protecting the article for a week because of the fairly blatant sockpuppetry; while it's being sorted out, I think you could use a vacation from the constant disruption. All the socks are autoconfirmed, so it's full protection I'm afraid. Please use the editprotected template for minor edits or consensus edits, and once things are sorted I'll remove the protection. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:25, 21 April 2011 (UTC)