Talk:Martina Hingis/Archive 1

Comeback account
As I hinted in my edit summary, I don't really see the point of a detailed account of her performance in the 2006 Aussie Open. But then I thought no point, unless she wins. So I would like to propose a compromise: we keep it (and keep updating it) while she is still playing. If she ends up winning the tournament, we definitely keep the account of what would be the greatest comeback ever; but if she looses, then we should have a simple paragraph stating that she managed to reach X stage on a Grand Slam tournament in her comeback, but no need to go into details for each of her matches, as it is being done now. This would mean removing most of what is up right now on that account. And not that it will happen here, but I'd like to state in advance that, if this post goes unanswered (as it sometimes happens), I will procede as I've just suggested on grounds of lack of opposition. Regards, Redux 00:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

it makes sense to me. Lambertman 20:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, Hingis lost in the Quarterfinals. Last chance for anyone who would like to counterargument or suggest a different form of adjusting the article.  Regards, Redux 13:59, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * She is in the mixed final; winning that would be fairly notable. Mark1 13:30, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * We should make a note of it in the article, definitely. But to keep perspective: Martina Navratilova did the same, being much older and after a much longer hiatus from competitive tennis.  Still, once her participation in the 2006 Aussie Open is complete, the paragraph about her comeback (which was in this tournament) should include all the aspects &mdash; that she made it to the Quarterfinals in the singles and that she won/was runner-up in the mixed doubles.  But no need to go into details for each match.  Redux 18:18, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Per Redux' point above, this keeps being edited like we're the sports section of a local paper. Specific match results and detailed daily updates on her progress are not encyclopedic. I agree with Mark above, but (and I think Redux will agree with me) a general summary is more than sufficient to describe her comeback. Eusebeus 05:44, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I have now edited the comeback section to bring its content into line with the rest of the article. I really don't think we need  details of every single match, nor to list the nationalities of every one of her opponents (all of whom have their own articles). Eusebeus 05:58, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the change. I was basically waiting for the mixed doubles final's result, and in the process, giving the anons who have been editing the article time to notice this discussion, but the change was already overdue, so thanks for it.  I'd only change one thing: the passage made a convincing demonstration may be perceived as POV, since it would be editorial judgment of her performance in the Aussie Open, unless we can provide an external source that refers to her performance there as having been convincing (or any other adjective).  Regards, Redux 20:05, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Please change the passage at will.  I wrote that b/c reaching the qf in a grand slam after 4 yrs absence struck me as a convincing demonstration.  A less POV phrase may well be more appropriate, however.  My main concern is that we summarise, not chronicle! Eusebeus 22:39, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I couldn't agree more. I have already reworded, or rather, mainly rearranged, that passage to avoid any POV.  Thanks, Redux 18:16, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * As Redux noted above, this page looks like it is becoming a repository for the results of every single tournament that Hingis will play. This is not a newspaper, however, and we need to summarise, or else the article's length will become completely out of control.  I suggest that the Comeback section be radically shortened, with only a line or two  about non G.S events (which is in keeping with precedent).  Eusebeus 10:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Not tennis?
Can we put any info into the page about her non-tennis life? Is she married? Is she involved in any businesses/franchises, etc.? El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 12:23, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Radek Stepanek
From what I can find, it would be factual to say that there are rumours Hingis is dating Stepanek, but the evidence is insufficient to say any more than that.

The Lawntennisnews source that was provided is the best there is, and that is reporting on an unnamed Czech newspaper/magazine. Even if we assume the Lawntennisnews account is correct, it's not clear whether the Czech publication is respected or a sort of gossip mag/tabloid that would go as far as inventing quotes.

I did a web search, and found Guardian and Pakistan's Daily Times articles that mention the supposed relationship in passing. Some Czech guy in a forum said "Yes...It was in all czech news..they are couple for a few weeks.. look really nice togther", which sounds impressive, except that no links/pics were provided. Searches like "Radek Štěpánek" "Martina Hingisová" site:cz do return results that appear to speculate on a relationship between the two, but I don't understand Czech, and didn't see any pictures showing them together.

So we have a pretty good basis for gossip, but does anyone have anything more solid?


 * Well, have you been watching CNN's World Sports during the claycourt season? The anchors even stated that Radek Stepanek is Hingis' boyfriend. They even said that Hingis (while playing in Rome) called Stepanek (he was playing in Hamburg) to congratulate him after reaching the finals. Joey80 08:28, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * No - there's no coverage here. But it prompted me to locate a source that backs up what you said, so I'm now satisfied with it being treated as a fact in the absence of any contradictory info. 59.167.45.241 09:06, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

"Half a man" quote
This widely-reported "incident" may be noteworthy, but I can't verify the quote that was added to the article. From what I can gather, Hingis made a remark in Swiss German, and the English articles quote translations (seemingly unofficial) made by Swiss journalists, not what what Hingis spoke. According to a February 1999 International Herald Tribune article:

''Mauresmo came here with her new coach, Christophe Fournerie, and her partner, Sylvie Bourdon. On Thursday, after her semifinal victory, Hingis, 18, was asked about Mauresmo at a news conference, which was broadcast around the tennis center, with Swiss journalists who reported that she answered in a joking tone in German: "She's here with her girlfriend. She's half a man."''

Hingis later denied making the comment and explained that she had said only that Mauresmo played like a man, but neither Fournerie nor Mauresmo was convinced.

''"I listened to the press conference, and she really said that 'she was half a man because she was with a woman,"' Fournerie said. "Despite her young age, she has got responsibilities in light of her ranking. She needs to understand certain things."''

Perhaps "She's here with her girlfriend. She's half a man." can be added to the article, correctly attributed to the "Swiss journalists" and with the IHT article as the source. 59.167.36.5 02:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Why were the other quotes removed?

See below: 1. "She's here with her girlfriend. She's half a man already" (referring to Amelie Mauresmo, French lesbian tennis player on the eve of their 1999 Australian Open Final).

2. Being black only helps them, "Many times they get sponsors because they are black. And they have had a lot of advantages because they can always say, 'It's racism.' They can always come back and say, 'Because we are this color, things happen." (referring to the "advantages" that Venus and Serena Williams have in a Time Magazine article, 2001).

3. "It was probably one Russian too many. It used to be two Williams sisters and a Davenport. Now there's a whole army of Russians in the way." (Toray 2006 Final post-match interview)

4. "She's old and slow" (responding in a 1999 press conference on why she terminated her doubles partnership with former Wimbledon champ, Jana Novotna)

All quotes are cited and attributed to her. She is "known" for being "quotable" What the heck is going on here, is this a Wikipedia or a fan page? Explanation please. Perhaps I am wrong is questioning your objectivity and motives, so I'd like an explanation. In the interim, the quotes have been replaced. Fairly.

COMMENT ON QUOTES - I didn't have anything to do with the missing quotes, but I came into the discussion page specifically because I was wondering why there were four quotes as part of the Hingis entry that don't reflect very well on her. I was wondering what the point of the quotes was supposed to be, and if the point is that she's somewhat of a loose cannon why isn't that made in the body of the text? I would say that isolating these four quotes, each of which makes Hingis look bad and not balancing them with other neutral or more favorable ones, makes this entry appear rather partisan. While reading them my thought was that somebody didn't like Hingis, and I don't think that's the impression someone should get when they read a Wikipedia entry. I randomly selected a half dozen entries on other contemporary tennis professionals and none of them had a quotes section. I won't remove them for now because I would rather get other opinions first, but my sense is that it would show good judgment. 69.204.39.38 23:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That batch of quotes was just one of many wildly-POV edits made by some anon user with an agenda. Do whatever you like with them. SubSeven 02:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * But the quotes concern other tennis players. They are not meaningless per se. I think it should be at least attempted to make the article more fair while leaving some of the quotes already here. Is anyone going to edit this soon? BKmetic 19:16, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

There used to be a paragraph in the article that noted Hingis for her controversial claims. But I agree with 69.204.39.38, this article needs more normal quotes. I doubt all Hingis does in interviews is condemn groups of people, those certainly aren't her most worthwhile quotes. I fell they should stay howerer, since they are notable in being particulary villainous, and after all, that's what she said. They paint her in a bad way, but she did make those claims herself, and never properly apologized. Proposal:There should a note on her controversial quotes in the main article, and non-controversial quotes should be added to the quotes section. BKmetic 02:19, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think the selection of quotes is heavily biased. People have mentioned the selection of quotes that are non-representative. Another problem is taking things out of context. For example, the Russian quote is fairly recent, so I think I recall the context. She was impressed by the huge gains by Russian tennis players. It wasn't some sort of disgust. And I think the Williams endorsement thing was a fairly innocuous remark about tapping new markets, the type of thing that some people say in praise of the Williams sisters. Plus, the use of quotes around "advantages" seems to be conveying sarcasm. --JamesAM 03:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The idea is that she says controversial/smart-ass things a lot (here is an article that claims that, towards the end; I'm sure there are others that mention it). It would make more sense to have a sentence or two about her reputation in interviews and press conferences and things and the give the quotes as evidence of it instead of just having the quotes there without any context. Recury 03:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I find the quotes quite funny. She really is sharp tongued; that's just the way she is. I've been watching tennis since 1990s and those quotes fit in perfectly with her personality on the court. I find her refreshing sometimes. Why try to coat it over with artificial sweetners? Leave the quotes in I say. 66.171.76.251 05:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Playing Style
I have boldly removed this section, since it is a mess of statements that are POV and it attracts unencyclopedic editorialising. This is not the place for Mary Carillo-style commentary. Eusebeus 22:55, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This section was restored; I am removing it again. Two points: first, most of our articles on tennis players do not contain encyclopedic descriptions of playing style, so this is somewhat against the informal structure that has emerged through consensus editing.  Second, my objections about editorialising and POV problems remain intact.  If this must be reinstated, please ensure that it avoids these pitfalls. Otherwise it should remain expurgated.  Eusebeus 12:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Its interesting to check out the discussion at Roger Federer. Personally, i think a style paragraph is of great great value, and Wikipedia presents a unique oppurtunity to gather this information quickly and with everybody's input, NPOV, and doesn't need to follow the path of other publications... yet of course, keeping its integrity. Knowsitallnot 05:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I think style of play is very important for this tennis player. It is why she is different from all players even up till present ('07), tell me of any player who can match her defensive baseline game that plays at present? NONE. So it is important to tell those who do not know tennis nor this tennis player that this is why she became a champion and 209 weeks at no.1, because to tell you the truth, that is what makes Martina Hingis. 124.104.33.235 03:43, 2 February 2007 (UTC)AARONʈ

I agree that playing style is an appropriate section for her page. It is a fact that there are serve-volleyers, baseliners, and all-court players. At least stating that Hingis is an all-court player makes a lot of sense here. Also, agreeing with the above poster, her cerebral playing style has been confirmed by the world's most respected tennis experts, so to speak. I do not think calling her a tactician or strategist breaks the formality of this article.

Seeing that there are some people who agree, can somebody come up with a substantial and sourced account of someone talking about her style of play that we can use into making a good description of Martina Hingis' style of play? thanks 124.104.45.30 15:00, 9 February 2007 (UTC)AARON

Oxford
Does anyone have a source to support the article's claim that Martina "completed two years of a Law degree at Oxford"? A February 2006 interview by Matthew Lee in Time Out Dubai contradicts this:


 * So to the obvious question: just where have you been these last few years? Hingis erupts with laughter again. ‘You can go on the internet and find out there!’ Having already done exactly that, I ask why she chose to study law at Oxford. ‘No, not law,’ she replies, ‘but English at Cambridge University here in Zurich.’ Thank you, Wikipedia. ‘And two years ago I did some commentary for television,’ she continues, ‘so I’ve been doing some studying; spying on the girls and now I’m going to use that knowledge.’

Note the sarcastic remark about Wikipedia being the source for this info... 59.167.36.5 00:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Mmph - I'm just going to delete it as it's completely unsupported on the surface. Several sources indicate that she studied English at AKAD in Zurich (the course apparently being related to Cambridge in some way), which I think deserves mention in the previous section of the article. 59.167.36.5 01:12, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * That's an appropriate course of action. You can always slap a source tag on the relevant section of the article in order to call the deficiencies to more general attention. As it is, since she herself provided the information, I think we can assume that's verification enough. Eusebeus 12:23, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

This is interesting, although it is true she did enter an english course: check out historical and news data for Martina Hingis in a chronological order here: http://hingis.quickfound.net/martina_hingis_news_2003.html ; It was never mentioned if she graduated from the said course. Hope to see a conclusion to this mystery. 124.104.45.30 15:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)AARON

Performance Timeline expansion
Can we expand the performance timeline to include the Tier I events? This seems quite appropriate for Martina Hingis since she is one, or probably the only one, among the tennis players who have won all the tournaments at least once. Joey80 09:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Timeline updating
To those who wish to update the timeline, the update doesn't just end by filling up a box with "QF" or "F", it will greatly help other editors if the affected numbers like surface win-loss, overall win-loss, the win-loss numbers in the career column, and the win-loss in the footnotes is also updated. This will prevent any confusion for any successive editors who might be unfortunate enough to finish an unfinished updating. Joey80 08:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Dates of WTA Tour singles victories
Is it used as a general rule that every tournament ends on Sunday? For example the date of winning Australian Open 1997 is written to be 1997-01-26. I remember that day very well... (it was my 16th birthday :-)) and it was Sunday, the women's final was held the day before (01-25)... Similar mistakes (if it is considered as a mistake) are present in some other dates as well. Enlyten 22:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Response
Hello. I created the victory chart. I used the dates on the WTA Tour website. If you want to change any, feel free.

Okay, thanks for the response. Further to Enlyten's comments, the dates of all three AO files are wrong. Martina won her first GS at exactly 1997-01-25 2:43pm. As evidence, I each of these matches on tape, date-stamped by my VCR - though I am not sure how to site this as a source. I am correcting the entries on the victory chart now. Dapto@mailinator.com 05:28, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

"Controversies" Not Hardly.
Ok, here's how it work. 1) Wikipedia doesn't create a controversy. 2) Wikipedians do not get to label things as controversies. Tennis Expert reccomended that I do a "Google" search to prove that all the listed quotations were "Controversies." When said search failed to produced the results Tennis Expert wanted, and I had edited to reflect the information I found, of course my change was immediately reverted without reason given. There are two separate cases here. 1) Hingis is outspoken, and says things which might be disagreeable to some (like talking about another players lesbianism, or about how she always beat Kournikova). That DOES NOT make it a controvery.  2) Hingis has said things (like the bit about the Williams sisters and their success being somehow tied to their race, and the new cocaine revelation) which HAVE caused controversy. Simply being outspoken and saying something which goes against some sort of social norm, doesn't mean it's a controversy. Take a look at the Akon page and the night club incident, or the Bob Knight page for prime examples of controversies. The night club incident, and Knight's comments about how if rape is inevitable a woman should sit back and enjoy it caused MAJOR uproar, were widely reported on, prompted large social outcry, and hundreds of sources exist to back it up. Beating Kournikova, talking about someone's age or lesbianism and basically EVERYTHING except for the cocain and the rift with the Williams sisters fail ANY logical test at placing a "Controversy" label on them. Another user used as their justification for keeping the information in the article that it had "been there for a long, long time." For a "long, long time" the Ronaldo page has said he was born on the incorrect date...should we leave THAT in there simply because it was there for a "long, long time?" Wikipedia has TWO purposes, to present sourced material and to present accurate material. Tennis Expert wanted sources illustrating the controversies, the ones I found which were there, were left in the article. The ones which could not be substantiated, were cut out. A simple way to avoid this problem is to come up with a more fitting sub-heading for the section. Rather than "Controversies" perhaps something that would more accurately convey what is ACTUALLY in the section. However, calling it "Controversies," when it can be clearly shown that the majority of the information contained therein....are not controversies, is simply not how it works. Like I said, it's not the job of Wikipedia, or Wikipedians to be the ones to create the controversy. Batman2005 00:01, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The chronicled incidents are regularly portrayed in the media as controversial remarks, or some such spin, and are not therefore instances of POV pushing. If Batman wishes to suggest a different section title, I would be happy to hear it. I don't think a more specific response needs to be given to the misguided screed above, save to note the obvious: refined google searches (such as this one indicate clearly that these are well-known and associated with Hingis. Eusebeus 00:16, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * So what you're saying is that my logical arguments against calling a spade a heart aren't worth your time? Hmmm, interesting, and not wholly unexpected given your recent nonsense edits to my talk page.  I have no problem calling a TRUE controversy...a controversy.  I DO have a problem with taking whatever disagreeable thing one might say and labeling it a controversy.  Just because she said she "always beats Kournikova" doesn't mean it's a controvery.  For gods sake...it was TRUE.  I digressed and LEFT IN the bit about the Williams sisters, because there was enough media attention to consider it a controversy.  Even a title such as "Media Attention" or "May not play well with others" would be a more fitting title to the contents of the section.  Like I said, we don't create the controversy, we merely report on it.  If there is insufficient evidence that a controversy existed, we can't call it such. Batman2005 00:23, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe we have been looking askance at your silly revert-warring, your needlessly belligerent tone, your excessive and adolescent use of ALLCAPS and other such sophomoric antics, all of which distract from the substance of your point, insofar as you have one. Please provide evidence on a case by case basis that the various issues listed in the article did not prove controversial; the onus is on you to provide this evidence since the article has remained stable - and thus is the product of consensus - for quite some time. As far as at least several interested and good faith editors concerned, it is also accurate as it stands, which is why your sudden outburst of edit-warring is being treated rejected, just as your more general behaviour faced with well-earned remonstrance invites contempt. Eusebeus 00:31, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * No, the onus is on YOU to provide sources for unsourced material after being asked to do so. If sources cannot be found for these "controversies" wikipedia policy says they should be removed.  I find it highly ironic that you call my antics sophomoric, then proceed to personally attack me in your posts.  Pot calling the kettle black huh?  Just because it's "stable" doesn't mean it's right or the product of consensus.  The Ronaldo article was stable for YEARS with the wrong date of birth on it....so that's ok in your book?  Not hardly I would think.  I notice you have yet to comment on any legitimate argument that I made, instead focusing only on attacking the editor.  But i'm sophomoric?  Right.  Get over it. Batman2005 00:47, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Your juvenile nature is being further shown by your edits and summaries, calling me "bathing" and "batwhatsitsname." Keep making yourself look more and more (to use your word) sophomoric. Batman2005 00:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * blah blah. I think the instances cited are accurate & shall we say, uncontroversial ;) Eusebeus 03:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * You have YET to make a valid argument for the inclusion of ANY of these "controversies." Instead of true debate, you choose to act like a juvenile and lob (poorly executed) personal attacks at me.  Do you have ANY valid points to make? Or would you just like to sit here and continue to break more policy by attacking me?  Batman2005 04:44, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * OK...well, given the absolute unwillingness of Eusebeus to actually engage in intelligent discussion that doesn't involve blatant personal attacks, and in light of Tennis Expert being unwilling to participate in any discussion on that matter, right now....there are absolutely no valid reaons on the table for keeping this "Controversies" section. I'll wait awhile longer to give said users an opportunity to actually engage in discussion, before moving ahead with removing it. Batman2005 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Plus that whole 3RR thing... Sanjayhari 07:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Admittedly we ALL came close to 3RR violations. I chose, however, to begin discussion on the issue.  The other two users have not chosen to participate, so at this point...consensus is against including the section. Batman2005 00:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Info Needed
'''Can someone add win% like in other profiles? THanks'''124.104.39.45 (talk)Aaron —Preceding comment was added at 15:05, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Who is currently coaching Martina?

Can we have list of titles? (88.105.43.211 03:36, 9 October 2005 (UTC))
 * Yes sure. You can add data that is verifiable.

Can somebody list her WTA singles runner ups? It's at WTA tour website but I'm too lazy now to do it :D I'm curious how many more titles she could've had! Thanks! and more power to wiki! 124.104.33.235 04:27, 2 February 2007 (UTC)AARON:

Okay so im no so lazy: I got this from WTA TOUR website but I don't know how to make it into those pretty tables you guys make:

Martina has 26 singles runner-ups:

1) PROSTEJOV ST, CZECH REPUBLIC, March 5, 1995, $ 25,000, HARD (I) Draw: 32M/0Q/16D, Rank: 54, Seed/Entry: 2P

F H2H (1/P) HABSUDOVA, KARINA 25  L  7-5 6-4

2) HAMBURG VS, II, GERMANY, May 7, 1995, $ 430,000, CLAY (O) Draw: 32M/0Q/16D, Rank: 60, Seed/Entry:

F H2H (2) MARTINEZ, CONCHITA 4  L  6-1 6-0

3) ITALIAN OPEN   VS, I, ITALY, May 12, 1996, $ 926,250, CLAY (O) Draw: 64M/0Q/32D, Rank: 20, Seed/Entry: 6

F H2H (2) MARTINEZ, CONCHITA 3  L  6-2 6-3

4) ZURICH VS, I, SWITZERLAND, October 20, 1996, $ 926,250, CARPET (I) Draw: 32M/0Q/16D, Rank: 9, Seed/Entry: 5

F H2H (4) NOVOTNA, JANA 8  L  6-2 6-2

5) CHASE CHAMPIONSHIPS VS, CH, USA, NY, November 24, 1996, $ 2,000,000, CARPET (I) Draw: 16M/0Q/8D, Rank: 0, Seed/Entry: 7

F H2H (1) GRAF, STEFFI  L  6-3 4-6 6-0 4-6 6-0

6) FRENCH OPEN   GS, FRANCE, June 8, 1997, $ 4,566,003, CLAY (O) Draw: 128M/0Q/64D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (9) MAJOLI, IVA 9  L  6-4 6-2

7) TOKYO (PAN PACIFIC) VS, I, JAPAN, February 8, 1998, $ 926,250, CARPET (I) Draw: 32M/0Q/16D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY 2  L  6-3 6-3

8) LOS ANGELES VS, II, USA, CA, August 16, 1998, $ 450,000, HARD (O) Draw: 32M/0Q/16D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY 2  L  4-6 6-4 6-3

9) US OPEN   GS, USA, NY, September 13, 1998, $ 6,012,000, HARD (O) Draw: 128M/0Q/64D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY 3  L  6-3 7-5

10) SYDNEYVS, II, AUSTRALIA, January 17, 1999, $ 420,000, HARD (O) Draw: 32M/0Q/16D, Rank: 2, Seed/Entry: 2

F H2H (1) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY 1  L  6-4 6-3

11) FRENCH OPEN   GS, FRANCE, June 6, 1999, $ 4,407,123, CLAY (O) Draw: 128M/0Q/64D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (4) GRAF, STEFFI 6  L  4-6 7-5 6-2

12) US OPEN   GS, USA, NY, September 12, 1999, $ 6,235,000, HARD (O) Draw: 128M/0Q/64D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (7) WILLIAMS, SERENA 6  L  6-3 7-6(4)

13) ZURICH VS, I, SWITZERLAND, October 17, 1999, $ 1,050,000, HARD (I) Draw: 32M/0Q/16D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) WILLIAMS, VENUS 3  L  6-3 6-4

14) PHILADELPHIA VS, II, USA, PA, November 14, 1999, $ 520,000, CARPET (I) Draw: 32M/0Q/16D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY 2  L  6-3 6-4

15) CHASE CHAMPIONSHIPS VS, CH, USA, NY, November 21, 1999, $ 2,000,000, CARPET (I) Draw: 16M/0Q/8D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY 2  L  6-4 6-2

16) AUSTRALIAN OPEN   GS, AUSTRALIA, January 30, 2000, $ 3,156,711, HARD (O) Draw: 128M/128Q/64D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY 2  L  6-1 7-5

17) INDIAN WELLS   VS, I, USA, CA, March 19, 2000, $ 2,000,000, HARD (O) Draw: 64M/32Q/32D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY 2  L  4-6 6-4 6-0

18) PHILADELPHIA VS, II, USA, PA, November 12, 2000, $ 535,000, CARPET (I) Draw: 32M/32Q/16D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY 2  L  7-6(7) 6-4

19) AUSTRALIAN OPEN   GS, AUSTRALIA, January 28, 2001, $ 3,569,290, HARD (O) Draw: 128M/128Q/64D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (12) CAPRIATI, JENNIFER USA 14  L  6-4 6-3

20) TOKYO (PAN PACIFIC) VS, I, JAPAN, February 4, 2001, $ 1,188,000, CARPET (I) Draw: 32M/32Q/16D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY USA 2  L  6-7(4) 6-4 6-2

21) CHARLESTON VS, I, USA, SC, April 22, 2001, $ 1,200,000, CLAY (O) Draw: 64M/32Q/32D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) CAPRIATI, JENNIFER USA 5  L  6-0 4-6 6-4

22) AUSTRALIAN OPEN   GS, AUSTRALIA, January 27, 2002, $ 3,818,613, HARD (O) Draw: 128M/128Q/64D, Rank: 4, Seed/Entry: 3

F H2H (1) CAPRIATI, JENNIFER USA 1  L  4-6 7-6(7) 6-2

23) INDIAN WELLS   VS, I, USA, CA, March 16, 2002, $ 2,100,000, HARD (O) Draw: 128M/64Q/32D, Rank: 4, Seed/Entry: 2

F H2H (18) HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA SVK 26  L  6-3 6-4

24) TOKYO (PAN PACIFIC) VS, I, JAPAN, February 5, 2006, $ 1,340,000, CARPET (I) Draw: 32M/32Q/16D, Rank: 117, Seed/Entry: W

F H2H (2) DEMENTIEVA, ELENA RUS 9  L  6-2 6-0

25) MONTREAL VS, I, CANADA, August 20, 2006, $ 1,340,000, HARD (O) Draw: 64M/64Q/32D, Rank: 12, Seed/Entry: 7

F H2H (13) IVANOVIC, ANA SCG 19  L  6-2 6-3

26) GOLD COAST   VS, III, AUSTRALIA, January 6, 2007, $ 175,000, HARD (O) Draw: 32M/32Q/16D, Rank: 7, Seed/Entry: 1

F H2H (2) SAFINA, DINARA RUS 11  L  6-3 3-6 7-5

Okay so I fixed the singles runner-up and then someone else polished it up. thanks!!! Now i request for information regarding her doubles runner-ups performance to see how many more titles she could have won if she didn't lose, and interesting to see who she lost to during those runner-up appearances. It might be as well that I look it up and write it and someone else polish it again. Many Thanks. 124.104.45.30 15:02, 9 February 2007 (UTC)Aaron

pronunciation
is it really hing-GISS? kwami (talk) 06:18, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm deleting the pronunciation, since no one's responding. kwami (talk) 07:37, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Request for wider input on discussion at WikiProject Tennis
There is a long, ongoing discussion at WP:Tennis about the tournament tables found in tennis articles on English-language Wikipedia (e.g., this type of table). The discussion is about whether the "official sponsored name" of a tournament - such as Pacific Life Open - or another tournament name without the sponsor - such as Indian Wells Masters - must be used in those articles. Please join the discussion here. Thanks. Tennis expert (talk) 09:27, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Discrepancy in Data
The Wins-Loss Ratio when added in the table of performance index is 473-112. But this data is incorrect. As per WTA she has a Win-Loss as 484-106 (singles). Vivek 20:52, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Why have all of the facts about her career that are not fan-club flattering-like removed? Particularly the details of the famous 1999 French Open Final? Her comments about Mauresmo and the Williams sisters that were so publicized that she had to hold press conferences to apologize/explain. These are quite notable. She is better known outside of the tennis world for this than most anything else. They should be included.

All sources are cited and backed-up? So why the removal? Perhaps someone could explain? I also don't think that who she is dating should be in the first paragraph? Maybe we could include a "personal life" section. But that's a minor issue :)


 * I don't agree with your characterisation of the article as a fan page, but regardless, the changes you made to correct it bordered on vandalism. If you want to dish out stinging criticism of people, start a blog or find a forum. This is an encyclopedia - please read:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view


 * edited title of this area to make it correct (from Discripancy to Discrepancy).124.104.45.30 15:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)AARON

Martina Hingis is not the youngest ever winner of a match at a Grand Slam event: at least, Gabriela Sabatini at 1984 US Open, Mary-Joe Fernández at 1985 US Open, and Jennifer Capriati at the 1990 French Open, won their first Slam matches at a younger age. You can check some official tennis sites Danotuc (talk) 23:51, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Family
refenrece 8 redirects to a bad link

the source i presented is Columbia.thefreedictionary.com, which is refered here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Encyclopedia. It is Columbia Electronic Encyclopedi

Containing over 100,000 terms, TheFreeDictionary's Encyclopedia is compiled from a number of sources, including The Columbia Encyclopedia®. The current Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia® contains nearly 52,000 entries and more than 84,000 hypertext cross-references, marshalling 6.5 million words on a vast range of topics. Comprehensively revised on a quarterly basis, the electronic edition is among the most complete and up-to-date encyclopedias ever produced.(Umumu (talk) 19:31, 23 March 2010 (UTC))


 * It's a Wikipedia mirror site that you're using, it's not the Columbia encyclopedia. Can you see the "Wikipedia encyclopedia" tag at the top? Squash Racket (talk) 19:38, 23 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I thought it was Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia... anyway your link is bad... (Umumu (talk) 19:46, 23 March 2010 (UTC))


 * I added a "dead link" tag, a PROPER one should be found to confirm the info. Squash Racket (talk) 19:48, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Wrong end of the stick?
Someone wrote this In several interviews, she indicated she wanted to go back to her country and coach full time.[citation needed].

I think that this should be deleted as after research most members of the press have Martina quiting and stating. "I want to play tennis only for fun and concentrate more on horse riding and finish my studies"

Also as a note on the horse riding point, wasn't there a time when Martina was considering/attempting to become an international horse rider after this.KnowIG (talk) 00:17, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Career stats
Yeah so the black for W is terrible its getting changed back to green NOW and please, black is crap it shouldnt be aloud. You can't even see the words greens better change back now plz —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lachyrulez (talk • contribs) 07:15, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Karol Hingis/ Hingis Károly
Why do we have to hide Karol's nationality/ethnicity? He speaks Hungarian fluently, his grandmother could not speak Slovak language properly. The sources state Martina has Hungarian origin as well. Unfortunately I could not find any proper English bibliography about Martina's family, however I found Hungarian sources. He lives in Slovakia but it does not mean obviously that he is Slovak.Fakirbakir (talk) 16:02, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Neutral 3th-party source says that her father is Slovak. She also claimed it in variouse interwiews. Maybe her father can speak Hungarian or he was from bilingual family, but there is no reliable source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources) which claims that his ethnicity is Hungarian.--Samofi (talk) 19:31, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * And his grandmother could be magyarized Slovak. BTW its grand grand mother of Martina Hingis, and its not well proven, that she is Hungarian. Has it meaning to talk about this? --Samofi (talk) 19:37, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but Hungarian sources are considered biased by default in this discussion. Moreover, all the evidence you are pointing to is only indirect. Samofi provided an English source, that carries more weight. Wladthemlat (talk) 21:44, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The Hungarian sources are perhaps biased but they exist and for instance, the first source www.nemzetisport.hu is a well known reliable website for the Nemzetisport newspaper. Károly used to get interviews to Hungarian journalists as well (in Hungarian). From this point of view He is a 'slavized' Hungarian.Fakirbakir (talk) 22:59, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The fact is that he is Karol Hingis (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22karoly+hingis%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=sk#sclient=psy&hl=sk&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=%22karol+hingis%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=9c63b4ccc7df0ac&biw=1680&bih=839) and not "Magyarized" Károly Hingis (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22karoly+hingis%22&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=sk#sclient=psy&hl=sk&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=%22karoly%20hingis%22&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=9c63b4ccc7df0ac&biw=1680&bih=839&pf=p&pdl=3000) - it say just sources with old fake information from Wikipedia. Karoly Hingis is a total POV of Magyar medias, its not his official name - so I think it make the relevance of Magyar medias in this topic less reliable. We can agree with information from Magyar medias that her father can speaks Magyar language. But I dont see the reason why it should be to mentioned here. People speaks foreign languages. --Samofi (talk) 06:43, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Be careful with his name. Hungarians were forced to alter their name to the Slavic variant in Czechoslovakia. In a few decades they (the Hungarians) started to use Slav names, naturally. Do you state state he speaks a "foreign" language? He learnt it from his parents. Moreover Hungarian is the second language in Slovakia, this is NATIVE language.Fakirbakir (talk) 09:34, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Please, stop with your POV. 1.) Magyar language is recognized as a minority language in Slovakia. 2.) 10% of people in Slovakia speak Magyar language but its 9% of Magyars by nationality. So a significant number of people of Slovak nationality speaks Magyar language. 3.) Your ideas without expert publications has no meaning, his Slovak nationality is well proven - by neutral sources in English language. 4.) Father of Martina Hingis speaks Slovak, Magyar and probably other languages, but he is Slovak, thats all. 5.) Please, show me the source which says that his official name Karol Hingis was Slovakized 6.) You did not find the reliable sources, using just POV, so I think the topic is closed. --Samofi (talk) 11:16, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * And Slovaks were forced to adopt Magyarized names and learn Magyar, so it might as well be that he is an offspring of magyarized Slovaks, These theories don't lead anywhere, Hungarian sources are keen on labeling anyone who speaks Magyar as of Magyar origin, but this is more complex than that. So I suggest we stick to neutral sources in such controversial a matter.Wladthemlat (talk) 17:51, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * From Swiss source: "Karol Hingis spricht nur Slowakisch" - he speaks only Slovak: http://www.royspring.ch/hingis/ He is not member of Hungarian minority and his name is not Karoly Hingis. --Samofi (talk) 06:29, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * First of all, please, read through all the sources provided. There were only about three that was written in non-English, including one from a Swiss paper in German (ugh, didn't you just cite a Swiss source in German a line above?) and one from Der Spiegel, which is a large and well recognized paper. Other sources were all in English, clearly confirming her background. Plus, WP:NOENG does not say that foreign media are not allowed, but "Because this is the English Wikipedia, English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones, assuming English sources of equal quality and relevance are available." Duh, if equal quality and relevance are available. Moreover, please, stop this language issue, that clearly does not belong to the topic. (And that applies for both sides.) I did not turn into an Englishman because I speak English, and if I would not speak English but had some English relative, I could be clearly of English descent. And please, do not rush into rvs without checking all the changes, as you did not only revert the provided refs, but also re-added the source provided by you, which, as clearly written in the edit summary, is a wikicopy back from 2007, therefore totally unacceptable. Thanks, Thehoboclown (talk) 09:23, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Spiegel took this information from German wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martina_Hingis), and its not sourced there. It was from information and medias took it from wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samofi (talk • contribs) 13:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * One more thing. If the grandmother of Karol Hingis was the Magyar has it meaning to write it here? Martina Hingis has a Czech/Slovak origin. Her father could have Hungarian grandmother but its nonsense to mention here. Why? We will talk about origin of each person to 4th generation? Her father is Slovak and her mother is Czech. Her father speaks only Slovak. He could have a Hungarian ancestors, but i think its useless information here. Her parents are Slovak and Czech and all other sources are dubious and not english, so why do you want to make Hungarian with Martina Hingis? --Samofi (talk) 13:23, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Nobody wants to do it. We are talking about origin and his father has Hungarian roots as well. That's all. Fakirbakir (talk) 15:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * "same combination of words"They (the editors of the newspaper) used these words "ungarischen Minderheit". It means Hungarian minority. It is a simple expression.Fakirbakir (talk) 15:10, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * its younger source as information in the german wikipedia, so wikipedia was the primary source - not reliable. and reliable english sources says he was slovak, information about his "maybe" magyar origin can be discuss in magyar, german and frenchy wikipedia, so this topic should be closed --Samofi (talk) 08:43, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * At first, please, don't speculate. Unless you can prove what you wrote above, it is just a nonsense theory. Spiegel is one of the largest European papers and clearly reliable.
 * At second, please, don't turn the policies inside out. WP:NOENG says "Because this is the English Wikipedia, English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones, assuming English sources of equal quality and relevance are available." Since there is no English source with equal relevance (acutally there's a source but you keep ignore it), the non-English ones are more than good, and they do support the statement directly. Thank you, Thehoboclown (talk) 11:08, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Its not reliable. Spiegler often use the German Wikipedia as the source. For example: http://www.spiegel.de/wikipedia/Martina_Hingis.html. Other sources are younger ans similary written as probably fake information from Hungarian press with his magyarized name Karoly Hingis. All 3 sources used probably Wikipedia as the primary source so tehy are not reliable WP:BLPGOSSIP - " Also beware of feedback loops, in which material in a Wikipedia article gets picked up by a source, which is later cited in the Wikipedia article to support the original edit". It should be checked coz its very strange that its no older article about her Hungarian origin that information in Wikipedia from 2008. Durring this 3 years a lot of other sources took this information and it should be repaired. Her father is no Hingis Karoly, Hungarian. He is Karol Hingis and Slovak. According to this - WP:BLPSOURCES her Hungarian origin is questionable. And its no reliable source older than 2008, when the fake information was added to Wikipedia. So according to WP:NOT3RR it should be information about his Hungarian origin quickly removed and discuss in WP:BLPN. Sources supports her Slovak roots: http://books.google.com/books?id=kpEc8ltyqnUC&pg=PA426&dq=hingis+%22slovak%22&hl=sk&ei=bZFUTpbrO8abOur-7a0G&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=hingis%20%22slovak%22&f=false; The Economist: http://www.google.com/search?q=hingis+%22slovak%22&btnG=Vyh%C4%BEad%C3%A1vanie+kn%C3%ADh&tbm=bks&tbo=1&hl=sk#q=hingis+%22slovak%22&hl=sk&tbo=1&tbm=bks&ei=HZJUTtuqDY6cOrCv7agG&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=16de7d58f7d05c7d&biw=1680&bih=811 "A famous tennis-player, no doubt, but is she from Slovakia? She was born there, of a Slovak father. But her Czech mother whisked her off to Switzerland as a toddler..." Its from 2001, so older as fake information from Hungarian internet press, with magyarized name Karoly Hingis. --Samofi (talk) 06:02, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, come on! That's only a wikipedia article in the Spiegel interface! They have a huge database in their page to browse them, when reading about a related person or event. (See here, under "Themen A-Z"). Would you question ALL of their articles because they attach the related wikiarticles for some additional information? (Without citing them, and with making it clear that it is under CC share alike license and additional conditions may apply.) Would you go through the whole wiki to remove all Spiegel citations because you think that Spiegel took them from a wikipage? Or Spiegel is unreliable only in this case?! Strange. And it's also strange that you used the "fake" and "probably" words quite often in your previous post. You speculate, again. And if The NY Times would create a wiki-subsection in their page, would they become unreliable because of that? Don't think so. And well, his father was Slovakian citizen, definetely, nobody questioned it. However, as the sources explained, he was from the significant Hungarian minority of the country. Since currently I don't see any chance to reach an agreement I just put on the question on the Reliable sources noticeboards. Regards, Thehoboclown (talk) 08:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * User Thehoboclown is right. User Samofi, it is just your opinion. We can not disregard a reliable source. We can not decide what was the source of the newspaper, moreover you can not prove your point of view.Fakirbakir (talk) 08:45, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * He is not right. You again added next not reliable source: http://www.happytimes.ch/news/news-welt/2638-martina-hinggis-hat-geheiratet-flitterwochen-auf-den-malediven.html

Under the article are sources: "Quellen: Diverse Medien, Wikipedia." So again feedback to Wikipedia. You have not found reliable, neutral, scholar source, just Hungarial article with his fake magyarized name Karoly Hingis and than feedbacks to Wikipedia. Reliable would be reliable article older than 2008, when the questionable and probably fake information was added to Wikipedia and this information took next websites.--Samofi (talk) 09:38, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll declare neutral on this, although honestly I tend to give some credit to the Hungarian origin. Samofi, you may not deny that both last names of Hingis mother and father aren't proper Slovak names: her mother's last name is Czech, her father's Hungarian, but this is just my original research, that I can't back up with reliable sources. In addition, Karol not knowing Hungarian, doesn't mean that he isn't Hungarian by ethnicity. None of the sources provided strike me particularly, and I doubt you will find an interview of Karol saying that he is Hungarian: he probably is very tied also to his country which was now defunct Chechoslovakia. These disputes on the ethnicity are worthless, I would say that Karol's ethnicity should be deemed to be Hungarian-Czechoslovak, and not Hungarian-Slovak, since Slovakia didn't exist when he was born and grew up, however as I said, I can't back this up properly. I propose that a list of sources be properly brought and each one be discussed. Only once that you have done this, you can go and fight it in the WP:RSN, where currently a lot of confusion is being created. Divide et Impera (talk) 14:35, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * With this edit I removed from the lede her ethnicities as per result in WP:RSN, but left them in the "Early Childhood" Section. In my opinion Carol is of Hungarian descent, and although the American Hungarian Federation source (showing Hungarian descent) is stronger than the Travel Guide and the Economist sources (showing Slovak descent), it is not quite enough strong to eliminate the two and then force the issue, so I kept them. In fact they source Slovak citizenship, but say nothing about Carol's ethnicity, which is sourced elsewhere.Divide et Impera (talk) 16:30, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Following the sources were proven reliable by third party users on the rs noticeboard, can we finally get an amen to the current version of the article? – Thehoboclown (talk) 16:00, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that this edit in WP:RSN from an independent editor sums it up pretty well what we should do. And I reverted Samofi's edit who stubbornly reintroduced ethnicity in the lede and messed up the very well presented references that I had given in the "Early Childhood" section. I take this opportunity to warn Samofi that he may be reported for edit warring and for not heeding the many users who clearly said in the WP:RSN that the ethnicity shouldn't be mentioned in the lede.Divide et Impera (talk) 16:33, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I support your opinions. Fakirbakir (talk) 16:56, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd rather comment here, as the sources are not more in question. I can completely agree with the summary of Divide et Impera added on the WP:RSN. Clear and well-written. Since the current version of the article perfectly fits it, I back the idea to keep it and mark the dispute resolved. – Thehoboclown (talk) 12:36, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * source from hungarian americans is not neutral and scholar. --Samofi (talk) 05:44, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Why is it not neutral? It may qualify as a tertiary source: that doesn't mean it's unreliable. Even if that source goes away, we have Nemzeti Sport sources, which are reliable.Divide et Impera (talk) 14:55, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Source from Hungarian American organizations is a blog. Everyone can write there a content, there is no editor. In the article: "The American Hungarian Federation® does not necessarily endorse the content or opinions expressed by its individual members and member organizations." And Nemzeti sport is not neutral: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view --Samofi (talk) 20:04, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Closing the argument
I hereby rule that Karol Hingis's ethnic origin does not matter in the context of this article. It does not matter whether he was Slovak, Magyar, or Sentinelese. Likewise for Melanie Molitorova: whether she was Czech, Welsh, or Laotian does not matter to the article. What matters is that they were both accomplished tennis players, that they lived in Czechoslovakia, that they had a daughter together, and that they split up when she was 6 and Melanie moved to Switzerland and took Martina with her.

Their ethnic origins would be relevant if one of them was an emperor penguin. Not otherwise.

Is Martina Hingis an emperor penguin?

No?

Then shut up.

I will be handing out month-long blocks to anyone who raises this issue again. There is a commented-out notice which repeats my decision, for the benefit of anyone who doesn't read this talk page (it might get archived eventually, hm).

There will be no further warnings on this issue. DS (talk) 20:29, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Switzerland
Why is she considered to be "from Switzerland"? Because she lived there for a few years? But she lives in U.S. now, so is she an American now? If she's not American or Switz, then she's what her parents were - Slovak - plus she was born in Slovakia. So what more? Chaldean 23:19, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The concept of "from" is too ambiguous, so I'm going to fix that shortly.


 * Which leaves Khoikhoi's request to cite a source. Frankly, anyone who's followed her career will view that as being about as silly as asking for evidence that she's female. Sources that explicitly identify her as a Swiss citizen, and instances of her referring to herself as such, are numerous. Sources that state otherwise are, to my knowledge, nil, so I think the burden falls upon those who want to show that she is a citizen of a different country and refers to herself as such.


 * Incidentally, where did you get the idea that she only lived in Switzerland "a few years" or lives in the US on a long-term basis? By my calculations, she's lived in Switzerland almost 20 years, and if she resides in the US at various times, it's probably to train in Florida with the numerous tennis players from abroad who do the same. 59.167.45.46 07:37, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * 20 years? If I'm not mistaken, she has been leaving in the U.S. for the past 8 some years, and we do know she lived in Slovakia, and she is only 26 years old. What I want to know is
 *  She moved with her mother to Moravia for a short period, then to Switzerland. - when did this happen. Chaldean 14:17, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * She moved to Switzerland when she was seven.
 * The only source I can find to support the Moravia claim is a reproduction of a Guardian article on Karol Hingis. I am neutral on whether this should be in the article.
 * I believe your claim that she's "lived" in Florida "for eight years" is overstated. Hingis owned a house there, and has owned several in Switzerland (her current one reportedly being in Hurden). Where top athletes and other celebrities who travel all over the world as a matter of routine "live" is often tricky to pin down, and you have to be very careful about inferring their nationality based on this.
 * Getting back to your challenge about whether she is Swiss, I consider this common knowledge, and am not going to cite sources for it in the absence of a credible claim to the contrary. The burden is yours - provide a single credible source (major news organisation or tennis publication articles, official tournament press conference transcripts, etc.) that explicitly states she is Slovakian or American. 59.167.45.46 23:33, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I wont argue. People can judge for themselves. Chaldean 03:19, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

BY THE WAY, WHY HER NAME IS HINGIS NOT HINGISOVA? IS SHE SO ASHEMD OF HER CZEK AND SLOVAK ORIGINS? OR WHAT??

"ova" is the feminine ending to many Slavic names and it is common for the lady to drop it when outside of her country; I had a neighbour whose husbands name was Kierski, but she didn't use Kierska in the US but just Kierski. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.144.9 (talk) 21:35, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Who created this paragraph? An analphabet???
''Martina Hingis' mother's second marriage to the Swiss Andreas Zogg also ended in divorce. By this time though Martina Hingis had obtained the Swiss citizenship and there was no question of them returning back to Slovakia.[11] Martina speaks four languages and most often speaks with her mother in their native language, Slovak.[11]Martina Hingis has often visited her homeland since 1989 and in 1996 she did seek to recover her Slovak citizenship. Under Slovak law dual citizenship is not allowed.[12][13]''

Yes... Except that all the listed sources mention that she spoke Czech and she wanted Czech citizenship. I wonder, if somebody is illiterate here? Or perhaps borderline mentally retarded? Or fully mentally retarded? This is just surreal!

Her mother is Czech, her father is Slovak, she was born in Kosice (eastern Slovakia), but subsequently moved with her divorced mother to Roznov (eastern Moravia, Czech republic), from where they emigrated to Switzerland. What is so complicated on this? Centrum99 (talk) 15:48, 8 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I have removed that badly-formed section because it was not only badly formed, it was superfluous and threatened to reignite the whole ethnic argument. However, you are being less than courteous. I formally request that you retract your hostile statements. DS (talk) 01:45, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Biography assessment rating comment
WikiProject Biography Assessment

I'd say someone should nudge this toward a GA.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 20:35, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I could not find any mention in the article that "the International Tennis Federation gave Martina Hingis a two-year ban ... for testing positive for cocaine at Wimbledon" :http://www.cbc.ca/sports/martina-hingis-banned-2-years-from-tennis-1.698074 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.14.135.95 (talk) 12:21, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Martina Hingis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150218034303/http://workplace.samhsa.gov/DrugTesting/pdf/2010GuidelinesAnalytesCutoffs.pdf to http://workplace.samhsa.gov/DrugTesting/pdf/2010GuidelinesAnalytesCutoffs.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140116134425/http://www.onthebaseline.com/2009/12/14/moving-forward-martina-hingis-talks-to-on-the-baseline-about-her-tennis-future/ to http://www.onthebaseline.com/2009/12/14/moving-forward-martina-hingis-talks-to-on-the-baseline-about-her-tennis-future/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 04:16, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 15:20, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Drug Test Hastens Retirement for Hingis
I feel it's fair to add: She retired in November 2007 due to tested positive for cocaine. . The reference is self explanatory. When I read up on her, I was expecting to see the drug charge or allegation, which I believe should be in the lead off. I saw the press conference when she announced it. It's fact at the time, the cause of her premature retirement, so should be in the lead. Skigg 21:55, 14 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skigg (talk • contribs)
 * I've added the information written in a more neutral tone. If anyone is to revert my edit, please reply explaining the decision here. --I am  Kethrus    Talk to me!   22:23, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I am not overly convinced that this information needs to be included in the lead. It's in the body of the article, but since it was one positive drug test, she claims she was clean, and by retiring meant there was never a conclusive determination of whether it was a false positive or not. The retirement is worth noting, the drug allegations are not. Primefac (talk) 22:35, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I personally think it's unfair to say the drug test was why she retired, she had been having really subpar results for like 7 months due to injuries and that played a big role on why she chose to retire (she said she was too old in her retirement conference), or otherwise she would've come back right after her ban. Narciso003 (talk) 11:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)


 * She still retired following a drugs test, at no point it was said she retired as a direct result (within the article). I don't believe there's any reason it can't and shouldn't be stated in the lead as it is referenced properly. - 14:01, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Well but if she didn't retire as a direct result of it then it most definitely doesn't belong in the lead (as it was one of the factors), which goes against the lead's purpose, that being summarizing. Narciso003 (talk) 13:51, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

My edit was then reverted by, which I disagreed with and discussed on the talk page, my edit is this (see the diff here). I stated she retired following a positive drugs test, but did not imply that it was a direct result. --I am  Kethrus    Talk to me!   14:04, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * But it's a subject that requires further explanation (the minimal correct explanation would be that following a positive drugs test and bad results caused by persistent injuries she decided to retire) and even if you didn't intend to imply that it was a direct result, written like that on the lead section most definitely makes it look like it was a direct result. Narciso003 (talk) 14:20, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ I don't believe this needs to be discussed further on here, I agree with this. --I am  Kethrus    Talk to me!   14:26, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry to butt in kind of late, but seems to me a brief and vague mention would be appropriate in the second or more likely third paragraph: "Her career was interrupted by two retirements, the first due to ankle injuries and the second after failing a drug test." This degree of prominence is, to my mind, appropriate to the amount of attention it attracted at the time.  It also leaves the controversy unjudged and defers the details of both retirements to the respective detail sections.  And if I'm too late, I shall be ignored and not raise a fuss over it.  Jim.henderson (talk) 02:39, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Hope this isn't too late since I'm new and didn't know to check. English isn't my native tongue but saying drug test isn't direct link doesn't seem to be right. Google 'Martina hingis drug' and read on the major media's coverage, BBC, ESPN, LAT ... NYT: "Drug Test Hastens Retirement for Hingis ... A comeback that started auspiciously in 2006 for Martina Hingis shuddered to a halt yesterday, when she announced her second retirement from tennis and revealed that her decision was linked to testing positive for cocaine at this year’s Wimbledon." to me, it is. The fact I even discovered this article was due to her last weekend win at US Open. As we were watching her match, I wondered how many slams (meaning singles ...) had she won and what went on in her life since the drug scandal. I was dumbfounded to read the "20" grand slam titles and no drug mentioned - I shared the wiki article and yes we just laughed ... which prompted me to edit - I rely on wiki as an user bec it's reliable, in depth and concise. Not many tennis players, male or female use drugs. This isn't smear on someone but trying to get facts straight. Skigg 11:02, 18 September 2015 (UTC) Skigg 13:09, 17 September 2015 (UTC)


 * My point is that she most likely wouldn't have permanently given up on singles if she were still ranked No. 6 in the world, winning Masters, routining Top 5 players and reaching the 2nd week of Slams when the drug ban came, instead of barely being Top 20 and losing to the likes of Sania Mirza, Shuai Peng or Laura Granville because of injuries, so either put both the injuries and drug ban as reasons or don't put any. The drug ban was until September 2009 and most players are still active at 28, she permanently retired from singles. Narciso003 (talk) 13:40, 18 September 2015 (UTC)


 * In an effort to support a new and enthusiastic editor, I would like to propose moving the 2007 drug allegations to a sub-section of the Personal life area. It is obviously notable from the NYTimes link Skigg posted -- and the BBC link in the paragraph on her career in 2007. That said, I am dismayed at the deadlink situation of the existing paragraph. So I would like to fix those links, add the NYTimes link (it is clearly notable and a good citation), and possibly look for additional citations that present this information in a super neutral way. If there are objections, please move the section back up to 2007 (though again I would argue it's a bit buried up there). But kindly leave the citations that I will have restored and added -- in an effort of clean up this small portion of Hingis' page. Thanks so much to all of the editors who responded with such great collegiality and helpfulness. I am very proud to be a Wikipedian here. All the best. BrillLyle (talk) 04:25, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks everyone! I jumped in to change in the first place was I never thought or considered it's controversy but a straightforward fact, being covered by many major media. The subsequent discussions and reversion looked more controversy to me. I support @Brill Lyle: in the lead (both retirements are fine) or a separate section. Buried it deep under '2007' is sneaky, pls don't hurt wiki's credibility. The time we spent on arguing over the drug problem, could have used it to fix the invalid links. I bet decades later, the NYT and BBC, etc links on her drug problem would still be valid. All have a great weekend and thank you for your help. I enjoyed this learning experience. Skigg 17:40, 18 September 2015 (UTC) sorry forgot to sign Skigg 17:41, 18 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skigg (talk • contribs)
 * Next time, try signing using the four tildes ~ -- you should not need to be typing your signature on Wikipedia manually. The tildes do it for you.
 * Also, it's good form to indent a level under the response others have made. The indent is done by adding a colon mark : and then typing.
 * As to your comments, I have liked hearing what other editors have to say. Wikipedia -- at its best -- is both collaborative and thoughtful. BrillLyle (talk) 19:50, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

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